Russian Overflights by RAF Crews during the "Cold War"
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Cosmic Harvester!
Green flash,
Thanks v.much. That is definitely what I came face to face with at Ellington. A very impressive beast from 10 feet away!
Cheers
SFO
Thanks v.much. That is definitely what I came face to face with at Ellington. A very impressive beast from 10 feet away!
Cheers
SFO
Last edited by ShortFatOne; 9th Jun 2009 at 22:26. Reason: P*ss poor spelling!
STH
Yes most still had the lead lined storage holders in them, even when they had been put to other uses, and including the disused ones at Barnham. On active units because of the security combination lock on the doors the buildings were often still being used. At Wittering on the ASU site we were using the ones there until we left in 2002 for ammunition. However one complete example was dug up and removed by AWE to go to their museum at Aldermaston.
Other than single ones in the floor of the tree roofed buildings the only other examples of these floor depositories I came across was in the disused site at Scampton where a single larger building had some 6 or 8 in it if I recall.
Yes most still had the lead lined storage holders in them, even when they had been put to other uses, and including the disused ones at Barnham. On active units because of the security combination lock on the doors the buildings were often still being used. At Wittering on the ASU site we were using the ones there until we left in 2002 for ammunition. However one complete example was dug up and removed by AWE to go to their museum at Aldermaston.
Other than single ones in the floor of the tree roofed buildings the only other examples of these floor depositories I came across was in the disused site at Scampton where a single larger building had some 6 or 8 in it if I recall.
Perhaps less well known is that the USAFE carried out a number of overflights of the Warsaw Bloc in 1955 & 1956.
These were shallow penetrations using three RF-100As based at Biturg who relied on speed flying in at 50,000 feet with afterburner and also six RF-57As based at Rhein Main who relied on flying high for safety. It is thought there were about 6 RF-100A and between 15 to 20 RB-57As overflights.
Of course it quite possible that the RAF, using its equivalent of the RB-57, could have carrried out its own overflights but I cannot supply any evidence to support this thesis.
These were shallow penetrations using three RF-100As based at Biturg who relied on speed flying in at 50,000 feet with afterburner and also six RF-57As based at Rhein Main who relied on flying high for safety. It is thought there were about 6 RF-100A and between 15 to 20 RB-57As overflights.
Of course it quite possible that the RAF, using its equivalent of the RB-57, could have carrried out its own overflights but I cannot supply any evidence to support this thesis.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Either a Canberra or Victor would 'stray' over the border, do its thing and leg it back before the Sov fighters could catch them. The meteors etc would all be scrambled in response. At the time they didn't know but their job was to 'delouse' the Canberra or Victor by stopping the Sv fighters at the border.
What with Filingdales in Yorkshire, Greenland & the"Dew Line" we had them tagged well before they got near & would send up a welcoming party.
Northern Radar "(c/s) look in your 2 o'clock, friendly traffic on a reciprocal heading, slightly low, will pass clear"
Captain, "Roger, looking, will report visual"
Nav Radar (self) looks out of little window by left shoulder (I'm facing backwards remember) and sees two Soviet Badger bombers pass by in exactly the position predicted by Northern Radar. Reports to captain.
Captain. "Contact the traffic. Define "friendly" please?"
Had them tagged? Well not always!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The berlin corridors were established during the blockade and were at heights and speeds commensurate with Yorks, Dakotas and Lancastrians of the time. These became set in concrete with a tacit agreement not to rock the boat.
The corridors were what the allies established and the Russians didn't prevent. I don't know if the agreement was then formalised.
From time to time however a corridor would be closed for dangerous air activity. This was ignored as a matter of principle and aircraft would follow the corridor track but below the corridor height.
On one such day we were in a Dominie at 4000 feet and routed directly over Mahwinkel, supposedly the largest helicopter base in Europe with over 100 hind and other types. I saw not a single helo. This pretty close to the wall coming down.
The corridors were what the allies established and the Russians didn't prevent. I don't know if the agreement was then formalised.
From time to time however a corridor would be closed for dangerous air activity. This was ignored as a matter of principle and aircraft would follow the corridor track but below the corridor height.
On one such day we were in a Dominie at 4000 feet and routed directly over Mahwinkel, supposedly the largest helicopter base in Europe with over 100 hind and other types. I saw not a single helo. This pretty close to the wall coming down.
Yes, Him
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Barnstormer
They still operate from Mildenhall from time to time. There was one there for a few weeks last year, keep an eye on the spotter's sites.
Remember pulling out a very heavy lump of something from one of those holes in the floor at the Wittering ASU once; it had a T-handle embedded in it. GRSF Chap wanted to calibrate a geiger counter with it, but had a wrist in plaster so went along to help.
Lucky you. I would love to see one in the flesh (it's the spotter in me).
Remember pulling out a very heavy lump of something from one of those holes in the floor at the Wittering ASU once; it had a T-handle embedded in it. GRSF Chap wanted to calibrate a geiger counter with it, but had a wrist in plaster so went along to help.
The berlin corridors were established during the blockade and were at heights and speeds commensurate with Yorks, Dakotas and Lancastrians of the time. These became set in concrete with a tacit agreement not to rock the boat.
The corridors were what the allies established and the Russians didn't prevent. I don't know if the agreement was then formalised.
The corridors were what the allies established and the Russians didn't prevent. I don't know if the agreement was then formalised.
Its said that the RAF operated a Vickers Valetta which regularly flew along the corridors armed with cameras placed at an angle to photo into East Germany and 192 Squadron used a Varsity in the corridors to train its signals specialists.
It was in these corridors that the RAF suffered a cold war loss when MiG fighters shot down a Lincoln in 1953 which was on "routine training flight" (RAF) or had "penetrated 75 miles into East Germany" (Soviet source). It has been alleged that this flight was used to provoke Soviet defences to gauge their reaction but who knows. This incident has been mentioned in a previous Prune thread in 2003 from which I quote Archimedes
It was in these corridors that the RAF suffered a cold war loss when MiG fighters shot down a Lincoln in 1953 which was on "routine training flight" (RAF) or had "penetrated 75 miles into East Germany" (Soviet source). It has been alleged that this flight was used to provoke Soviet defences to gauge their reaction but who knows. This incident has been mentioned in a previous Prune thread in 2003 from which I quote Archimedes
I found the reference to the Lincoln being armed - it was in Tony Geraghty's history of Brixmis. The Brixmis team that went out to the crash site was, apparently, convinced that the guns were loaded, and that the BOI report (which blamed the navigator for getting lost) was inaccurate. Subtext being that the affil ex was just a cover.
This, of course, doesn't mean that the Brixmis team got it right (for instance, the Russians might have been tempted to doctor the crash site by introducing 20mm ammo to the scene... - 'We are very sorry, comrade, but you will understand that once the aircraft fired at our fighter...') - but it is an interesting little tale...
This, of course, doesn't mean that the Brixmis team got it right (for instance, the Russians might have been tempted to doctor the crash site by introducing 20mm ammo to the scene... - 'We are very sorry, comrade, but you will understand that once the aircraft fired at our fighter...') - but it is an interesting little tale...
Last edited by Brewster Buffalo; 16th Jun 2009 at 18:43. Reason: Valetta not Varsity did the photography
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
115 Sqn - The squadron came back on 21 August 1958, when No 116 Squadron at Tangmere was renumbered. It was now a Radar Calibration unit operating Varsities and Valettas.
and
On 21 August 1958 No. 116 Squadron at Watton was re-numbered No.115 Squadron. The squadron now had a completely different role. It was part of No. 90 Signals Group and its task was somewhat prosaic but vital, that of calibrating from the air all radio and radar installations at RAF airfields. Later in the year it moved to Tangmere, where it remained for five years on this task and also took part in calibrating ships' installations. It also flew a few Vickers Valettas for a year or two.
Note the latter extract does not mention the Varsity. Of course radar calibration can hide a multitude of things including plotting the ground emitter and recording its parameter.
and
On 21 August 1958 No. 116 Squadron at Watton was re-numbered No.115 Squadron. The squadron now had a completely different role. It was part of No. 90 Signals Group and its task was somewhat prosaic but vital, that of calibrating from the air all radio and radar installations at RAF airfields. Later in the year it moved to Tangmere, where it remained for five years on this task and also took part in calibrating ships' installations. It also flew a few Vickers Valettas for a year or two.
Note the latter extract does not mention the Varsity. Of course radar calibration can hide a multitude of things including plotting the ground emitter and recording its parameter.
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One of the Varsity's operating in/out of Gatow on 'those' flight's was WJ916. The only time in my whole career that I've seen an aircraft taxy into a hangar under it's own power, the hangar doors to be instantly closed and armed RAF Police posted outside.
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More info here: Reconnaissance Flight Over the USSR
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Tankertrashnav
Talking about the North Sea, I attended the ACA meeting & was able to film Arthur Creighten, who was also Nav Rad but on Valiant's. He described how they did high altitude Maritime Reconnaissance missions flying up the North Sea, Artic Ocean & Barents Sea towards Murmansk. They had a camera in the bomb bay, also a 35mm camera taking a photograph every sweep of the H2S P.P.I. If they saw anything unusual, the USAF would send a low level aircraft from Greenland to investigate. On a lot of sorties, they would be accompanied by a Canberra flying at low level.
Talking about the North Sea, I attended the ACA meeting & was able to film Arthur Creighten, who was also Nav Rad but on Valiant's. He described how they did high altitude Maritime Reconnaissance missions flying up the North Sea, Artic Ocean & Barents Sea towards Murmansk. They had a camera in the bomb bay, also a 35mm camera taking a photograph every sweep of the H2S P.P.I. If they saw anything unusual, the USAF would send a low level aircraft from Greenland to investigate. On a lot of sorties, they would be accompanied by a Canberra flying at low level.
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One interesting thing about the corridors was that they were for the use of the 4 main WW2 Allied Powers only. Thus, in 1982, I flew the FRG Chancellor as well as Mrs T on a visit to Berlin. My abiding memory of the trip was the BFBS Radio Reporter thrusting a mike into the face of a 5 year old female pupil at the Gatow Primary School and asking "Do you know who Mrs Thatcher is?". Young lady gave the reporter a look of total disdain and said :-
"Of course I do - SHE'S THE STATION COMMANDER OF ENGLAND!!"
"Of course I do - SHE'S THE STATION COMMANDER OF ENGLAND!!"
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Perhaps less well known is that the USAFE carried out a number of overflights of the Warsaw Bloc in 1955 & 1956.
These were shallow penetrations using three RF-100As based at Biturg who relied on speed flying in at 50,000 feet with afterburner and also six RF-57As based at Rhein Main who relied on flying high for safety. It is thought there were about 6 RF-100A and between 15 to 20 RB-57As overflights.
These were shallow penetrations using three RF-100As based at Biturg who relied on speed flying in at 50,000 feet with afterburner and also six RF-57As based at Rhein Main who relied on flying high for safety. It is thought there were about 6 RF-100A and between 15 to 20 RB-57As overflights.
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The Tree shaped buildings
In response to SIRTOPPAMHATs picture, yes the ones at Wittering did contain 6 of these "dustbins" and were originally used to hold the Plutonium cores for the Red Beard 20Kt weapon, one in each bin.
The one I "owned" was used to hold the radioactive sources I used for calibration and testing of the radiation monitors. Some of them were rather hazardous and needed to be handled with a five foot pair of tongs before being deposited into a portable lead safe.
As each one had a manifoil combination lock on them which were renowned for being a right pain to use I once placed one of my sources on a spare desk in my secure office, locked the door, placed the appropriate hazard warning signs outside and went to lunch. Unfortunately one of my colleagues was on leave at the time and had unknown to me placed his filmbadge in the desk drawer. The first we knew of any problem was when Neddy was carted away to sick quarters a couple of weeks later when the badges were developed and his recorded a massive exposure.
The one I "owned" was used to hold the radioactive sources I used for calibration and testing of the radiation monitors. Some of them were rather hazardous and needed to be handled with a five foot pair of tongs before being deposited into a portable lead safe.
As each one had a manifoil combination lock on them which were renowned for being a right pain to use I once placed one of my sources on a spare desk in my secure office, locked the door, placed the appropriate hazard warning signs outside and went to lunch. Unfortunately one of my colleagues was on leave at the time and had unknown to me placed his filmbadge in the desk drawer. The first we knew of any problem was when Neddy was carted away to sick quarters a couple of weeks later when the badges were developed and his recorded a massive exposure.
Slightly Off Beam
If anyone want's to pp me I'll gladly let them have a copy of one of my published ghost stories called 'Wytons Wanderer' all about a Canberra limping home slightly the worse for wear with singed tail at about the time of the Cuban Missle Crisis . Some liberties taken !!
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Whilst we are in the Berlin Corridors, I did hear of a tale regarding an Andover that regularly flew the routes. It would fly as close as possible to the side of the corridor and sure enough, a MiG was despatched to confront the Imperialist Dogs. Andover chugging along with MiG on the wing tip. Andover slows, pops a bit of flap out and the MiG is not happy. Andover slows more and now the MiG is seriously worried; the burner flicking on and off and it's starting to wallow about. Andover drops full flap, puts the legs down, slows to a slow walk. MiG flicks into a stall. MiG never seen again. Urban legend?