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Russian Overflights by RAF Crews during the "Cold War"

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Russian Overflights by RAF Crews during the "Cold War"

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Old 8th Jun 2020, 16:56
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Do you remember the paint scheme as looking temporary and brushed on, or properly applied with all the usual stencils, etc.?

Red white and blue roundels, or red and blue?

The problem with a low conspicuity Canberra for night ops is that it would have stuck out like a sore thumb in daylight and on any flightline?
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 16:57
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At last, Waddo Linney, someone else who has seen a black Canberra! Way back in the thread I mentioned, as a young teenager seeing an all black Canberra land at Sylt in 1961. When I reminded my father of it a few years ago his reply was , "Yes, but because it was pushed into a hangar so quickly, you didn't see the bullet holes in the fin." Going back the RB45 overflights, a close friend of mine who sadly died last year, Flt Lt Gordon Tompkins MBE, processed the film that came back. Following a tour on Lincolns he was posted to the Weather Flight at Wyton. Gordon was navigator and a fellow navigator and his pilot would disappear for three days. Gordon had a room at the top of the photo section at Wyton and in theory he was the only one with a key. When his navigator friend returned a package of film would appear on his desk. Gordon was assisted by a Dr Llewelyn in developing a process of printing that brought out detail, though not 3d. All this was done in Gordon's spare time and in total secrecy. He would take the prints in person to MOD ( Air Ministry) in London. For his work he was awarded the MBE. I hope this gives just a little more to the story.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 16:51
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My dad is 82, flew in Shackleton's and Canberra's. Says and has said very little about what he did, but flew or was based out of Cyprus and Malta at times? Does that make sense?
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 17:51
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Originally Posted by Jackonicko
Do you remember the paint scheme as looking temporary and brushed on, or properly applied with all the usual stencils, etc.?
Red white and blue roundels, or red and blue?
The problem with a low conspicuity Canberra for night ops is that it would have stuck out like a sore thumb in daylight and on any flightline?
The paint scheme was not temporary, but as far as I can recall, there were no markings on the fuselage. As for roundels, it was a long time ago, so I don't have any clear memory of seeing them. It was definitely conspicuous on our flight line, but Labuan was a remote airfield far from prying eyes.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 17:58
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Originally Posted by Box Brownie
At last, Waddo Linney, someone else who has seen a black Canberra! Way back in the thread I mentioned, as a young teenager seeing an all black Canberra land at Sylt in 1961. When I reminded my father of it a few years ago his reply was , "Yes, but because it was pushed into a hangar so quickly, you didn't see the bullet holes in the fin."
Thanks Box Brownie for confirming that a Canberra with such a paint scheme existed. I couldn't find the "earlier in the thread" post you mentioned, but do you happen to remember if it was matte black or if it had a sheen? Also, any recollection if it was a photo recon version? The bullet holes could have been from small arms fire. Perhaps it was shot at while landing.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 18:07
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Originally Posted by MikeeB
My dad is 82, flew in Shackleton's and Canberra's. Says and has said very little about what he did, but flew or was based out of Cyprus and Malta at times? Does that make sense?
That does make sense. Was he an AEOp or Signaller, by any chance? Or a Nav?
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 18:08
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Originally Posted by MikeeB
My dad is 82, flew in Shackleton's and Canberra's. Says and has said very little about what he did, but flew or was based out of Cyprus and Malta at times? Does that make sense?
MikeeB, it makes a lot of sense. Since the Canberra didn't originate from 81 Squadron, Tengah, one of the things I have considered was that it came from Malta or Cyprus where a number of Canberra PR squadrons were based. Possibly it would have refuelled at Ceylon (Sri Lanka) and then Labuan. I had thought of Gan as a refuelling stop, but a former 81 Sqdn. navigator advised that Gan was a bit beyond the Canberra's range from the Med. Another thought was that it came from Darwin in Australia's Northern Territory. It would have been welcome there since Oz was a participant in the Vietnam war.
I have feelers out, trying to get in touch with other ground crew members who served at Labuan at that time and who may have memories of the mysterious Canberra.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 19:22
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Waddo Liney, it was so long ago I can't recall if it had a sheen or not. I do recall Dad saying that it was not cleared to land at RAF Sylt. I have always presumed that it was at height either near or over the Russian border and got caught by a fighter. Knowing they had been hit, and not knowing the damage, I would think the crew elected to land at the nearest NATO base.
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 08:04
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Originally Posted by Jackonicko
That does make sense. Was he an AEOp or Signaller, by any chance? Or a Nav?
I'll try find out more; it's just something he's never spoken about. I've found him on https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/ if anyone has access, I'll give you the details via PM.

Last edited by MikeeB; 10th Jun 2020 at 13:05.
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 03:10
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Made a request to MOD through the Freedom of Information Act for any pertinent information. The reply was that it's too long ago to be in its records, but it was suggested that I try searching the National Archives. Don't think I particularly want to chase down that rabbit hole.
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 14:36
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Originally Posted by Waddo Liney
...............it was suggested that I try searching the National Archives. Don't think I particularly want to chase down that rabbit hole.
I did a bit of research in the National Archives in relation to the Defiant thread and its use as a ECM platform. I was able to download the ORB for May to September 1942.
However there is no reference within as to their role nor where operational flights took place just a reference to a secret file at 11 Group for further information. So likely in this case this "overflight" might not be mentioned in the ORB.

One intriguing event was an "air to sea firing programme" carried out at Leysdown.. Perhaps if they saw an E-Boat they were expected to attack it??
Of course only a proportion of the RAF records are available for download though, at the moment, there is no charge to do so...
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 16:09
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Originally Posted by caped crusader
'By Any Means Possible' written by William E Burrows ISBN 0-374-11747-0
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 17:57
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https://www.key.aero/article/peering-behind-curtain
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 15:01
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Nutty

I’ve had a link removed recently, the explanation by the mods was that there’s a requirement to also have text by the poster, not just the link.
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 20:15
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Originally Posted by Jackonicko
That does make sense. Was he an AEOp or Signaller, by any chance? Or a Nav?
Spoke with him today, he was an Aeroplane Photographer(?). Said he originally worked on Canberra PR7's(?) and was based at both Bruggen and Laarbruch, or at least that's what I thought he said. His next sentence was, "I'm sure they used to fly over Russia". After that he moved to worked on Shackletons based at Kilnloss and seemed to get onboard flights a lot. He mentioned Ballykelly was a regular stop, and said flying at very low level over sea was not a comfortable time. He then said something about they used to lower a device out the bottom of the Shacks and one day the pilot went that low, it hit the sea. They used to fly around quite a lot on 'training exercises', so they spent time in Malta and Cyprus, which he said was a 10 hour flight? They also flew in to Gatow and he visited before the wall went up - he also said the place was still in ruins.

One of the officers had his own Tiger Moth, so he got a flight in that one day, said it was the best thing he ever flew in whilst in the RAF.

I'll ask some more next time I go round more for my own interest than anything else, but if anyone has any specific questions based on the above, please let me know.

Regards
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