Nimrod MRA.4
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No worries we have two Caravans!
SM you say
But it looks like yet again you are in la la land.
Read more: No search-and-rescue concerns - Press & Journal
And thee will be no pirates on Rutland Water either.
You can expect captains of the oil and gas industry to lobby for the MCT and SAR benefits of the Nimrod,
Industry leaders said last night that they had no concerns about search-and-rescue cover off Scotland’s coast after the decision not to replace the Nimrod surveillance aircraft.
An 11-strong fleet of ageing MR2 Nimrods at RAF Kinloss base was grounded at the end of March.
Since March, the search-and-rescue cover has been handled by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) and its two Cessna aircraft based at East Midlands Airport.
Malcolm Webb, chief executive at industry body Oil and Gas UK, said that having the planes based further away from the bulk of oil and gas operations in the North Sea would not have any implications for safety.
He added: “In the past, having specialist air support on our doorstep, of course, has been a bonus but the loss of this will not impact on the industry’s ability to respond effectively in times of emergency.
“The emergency response plans put in place by the UK oil and gas industry are comprehensive and function independently of the RAF.”
Scottish White Fish Producers’ Association executive chairman Mike Park said he was currently unaware of any concerns among fishermen about the loss of the Nimrods.
An MCA spokesman said the “eye in the sky” duties performed by the Nimrods were now being carried out by the two Cessnas under what was meant to be a temporary arrangement.
But the government’s decision to scrap plans for the new MRA4s will see the cover provided indefinitely.
Nimrod MR2s were involved in co-ordinating the massive rescue operation following the 1988 Piper Alpha disaster and did a similar job 19 years later in the evacuation of 118 workers from the blazing Thistle Alpha platform off Shetland.
One of them co-ordinated the safe rescue of 18 passengers from a Super Puma helicopter which crashed into the North Sea last year.
An 11-strong fleet of ageing MR2 Nimrods at RAF Kinloss base was grounded at the end of March.
Since March, the search-and-rescue cover has been handled by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) and its two Cessna aircraft based at East Midlands Airport.
Malcolm Webb, chief executive at industry body Oil and Gas UK, said that having the planes based further away from the bulk of oil and gas operations in the North Sea would not have any implications for safety.
He added: “In the past, having specialist air support on our doorstep, of course, has been a bonus but the loss of this will not impact on the industry’s ability to respond effectively in times of emergency.
“The emergency response plans put in place by the UK oil and gas industry are comprehensive and function independently of the RAF.”
Scottish White Fish Producers’ Association executive chairman Mike Park said he was currently unaware of any concerns among fishermen about the loss of the Nimrods.
An MCA spokesman said the “eye in the sky” duties performed by the Nimrods were now being carried out by the two Cessnas under what was meant to be a temporary arrangement.
But the government’s decision to scrap plans for the new MRA4s will see the cover provided indefinitely.
Nimrod MR2s were involved in co-ordinating the massive rescue operation following the 1988 Piper Alpha disaster and did a similar job 19 years later in the evacuation of 118 workers from the blazing Thistle Alpha platform off Shetland.
One of them co-ordinated the safe rescue of 18 passengers from a Super Puma helicopter which crashed into the North Sea last year.
And thee will be no pirates on Rutland Water either.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Losing the E-3s to pay for them would be a good trade.
The fact is that whether or not we, as the RAF, operate them, we will continue to pay for them. At least with RAF roundels painted on the side we get some say in how they are used.
Blame NATO, blame the Govt, blame Brussels, blame Allah, it matters not, we pay for E3s whether based at Waddo or GK.
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Losing the E-3s to pay for them would be a good trade.
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I am just flabbergasted by this decision, I just think its lunacy and an outrage the MRA4 is axed.
One thing is for certain this will haunt the tories for years to come. I no longer see them as Government that has the best interests of this nation at heart. Keep E3 and bin Sentinel , what a load of utter crap the PM talks off. £3.5 Billion paid for with costs of less than £200 Million for 4 years
I really hope the 9 MRA4s go to a nation who deserve them. I can not sleep safely knowing we have bought into JSF and A400M with them also being over budget and having difficulties.
**** it , pointless ranting anyway. Redundency where are you
One thing is for certain this will haunt the tories for years to come. I no longer see them as Government that has the best interests of this nation at heart. Keep E3 and bin Sentinel , what a load of utter crap the PM talks off. £3.5 Billion paid for with costs of less than £200 Million for 4 years
I really hope the 9 MRA4s go to a nation who deserve them. I can not sleep safely knowing we have bought into JSF and A400M with them also being over budget and having difficulties. **** it , pointless ranting anyway. Redundency where are you
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Facebook - Save RAF Kinloss
Probably not going to do any good, but there is a Save RAF Kinloss group now running on Facebook:
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It has already got 6750+ members (more than the SNP majority over the Tories not that they can expect a vote again in Moray). Good luck and keep the faith. This capability will need replacing sooner rather than later. Until then we rely on our allies the US and France, I will sleep easy tonight.
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It has already got 6750+ members (more than the SNP majority over the Tories not that they can expect a vote again in Moray). Good luck and keep the faith. This capability will need replacing sooner rather than later. Until then we rely on our allies the US and France, I will sleep easy tonight.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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A400m is a multinational endeavour, and might just have some export potential. JSF could be the next F16 in terms of sales - there isn't anything else from the West on the horizon (Typhoon and Rafale excepted), so unless upgraded F16s and F18s continue to sell there is a substantial profit to e made by UK business on the back of the JSF.
Nimrod didn't have the same sales potential, nor political entanglements with European neighbours, so ignoring defence strategy and focusing on business it's a reasonable choice. It probably puts some perspective on where govt priorities lie.
Nimrod didn't have the same sales potential, nor political entanglements with European neighbours, so ignoring defence strategy and focusing on business it's a reasonable choice. It probably puts some perspective on where govt priorities lie.
Join Date: Apr 2010
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If it is already paid for, and I believe someone said BAe still have the workers tinkering with the a/c earlier on in the forum, are they now finishing it to sell on?? could you imagine, I would not surprise me, that would be a shareholders wet dream, 4 billion quid off the country and then another few $$ selling them on...is that possible??
A better result for BAE is hard to imagine.
There's a big article in the South China Morning Post about the build up of the local Nations submarine fleets. I know it's out of area, but aren't we sending a signal that the UK is no longer a world player?
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Cargo ship 'hits passenger ferry' near Amsterdam
It is breaking news and it sounds as though it is in a canal and not open water; however, surely this is a tragic and immediate warning to us. Would the 'other assets' that are now covering SAR be able to conduct and co-ordinate a large scale incident such as this in the North Sea or English Channel. I only know 2 assets that could, one was retired after 40 years service last March and the other has just been cancelled under SDSR. Such incidents were regularly trained for in the respective simulators as part of our core tasks. This alarm bell has to be rung loud and clear to No.10, please take the time to write to your local MP; Hanfimar's post #962 is a good template.
BBC News - Cargo ship 'hits passenger ferry' near Amsterdam
BBC News - Cargo ship 'hits passenger ferry' near Amsterdam
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A very sad decision which has taken out an incalculable capability for our military. I spent 15 years on the Hunter and only know too well the level of expertise that will be lost forever. In addition, the local community who, for the most part, gave unstinting support to the station will take years to recover from this body blow.
I always feared that the Nimrod force, in it's effort to just get on with the job without making a song and dance out of it, let itself down. The aircraft only hit the news when something disastrous happened such as Toronto, Firth or Kandahar. It seemed to be considered below those involved in Maritime PR to get the press inside the Nimrod story. Perhaps it was the distance away from the London-centric news organizations; I only hope it was not the perceived difficulty of filtering out the more sensitive nature of some of the tasking compared with the easily handled tasking such as SAR. I was always amazed at how often the RN Seaking unit at Prestwick got into the news compared to the frequency of all of the RAF SAR forces.
Has someone told the Spanish fishermen that they will no longer have the ability of "feeling unwell" 200+ miles from the coast and expect a cab to pitch up to take them home via Truro Hospital? The Helicopters just will not have the top cover. I know that the C130 has been trying to carry out this task for a while but I also know it's severe limitations and how difficult this role is to support due to other commitments of the transport force.
Good luck to all those in and out of uniform at Kinloss.
I always feared that the Nimrod force, in it's effort to just get on with the job without making a song and dance out of it, let itself down. The aircraft only hit the news when something disastrous happened such as Toronto, Firth or Kandahar. It seemed to be considered below those involved in Maritime PR to get the press inside the Nimrod story. Perhaps it was the distance away from the London-centric news organizations; I only hope it was not the perceived difficulty of filtering out the more sensitive nature of some of the tasking compared with the easily handled tasking such as SAR. I was always amazed at how often the RN Seaking unit at Prestwick got into the news compared to the frequency of all of the RAF SAR forces.
Has someone told the Spanish fishermen that they will no longer have the ability of "feeling unwell" 200+ miles from the coast and expect a cab to pitch up to take them home via Truro Hospital? The Helicopters just will not have the top cover. I know that the C130 has been trying to carry out this task for a while but I also know it's severe limitations and how difficult this role is to support due to other commitments of the transport force.
Good luck to all those in and out of uniform at Kinloss.
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Three days on and I am still thinking about the luncay of the decision.
We end up with a carrier we don't need, dont want, and will never use, and to pay for it we are gettign rid of a capbility that we must have, that other nations are envious of, and that we will use in many ways.
I know this icon has been used a lot in this thread but
To me the sensible thing would have been to renegotiate with BAE along the lines of... "if we will cancel one carrier, we will pay the penalty clauses, but we want this extra money to go towards the Nimrod in service support for the next 25 years"
We end up with a carrier we don't need, dont want, and will never use, and to pay for it we are gettign rid of a capbility that we must have, that other nations are envious of, and that we will use in many ways.
I know this icon has been used a lot in this thread but
To me the sensible thing would have been to renegotiate with BAE along the lines of... "if we will cancel one carrier, we will pay the penalty clauses, but we want this extra money to go towards the Nimrod in service support for the next 25 years"
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I know its the Sun... but...
Britain must now depend on the French to stave off naval attack | The Sun |News
Britain must now depend on the French to stave off naval attack | The Sun |News
AXING the RAF's Nimrod spy planes leaves Britain's defences so weak we will have to depend on the FRENCH to stave off a naval attack on us.
French Atlantique planes operating from UK bases will monitor and intercept unauthorised ships and submarines.
The humiliation comes exactly 205 years to the day after Nelson's fleet saw off Napoleon at Trafalgar.
And The Sun can reveal that just as Prime Minister David Cameron was announcing the axing, TWO Russian submarines were intercepted less than 70 miles off our shores.
They had to be tracked by American P3 Orion jets because our Nimrods were grounded and the French planes had NO FUEL.
The incident was an embarrassing reminder to politicians about the importance of having eyes in the skies around Britain.
The nine Nimrods, which cost £3billion, were designed for anti-sub warfare and marine patrols.
A source at RAF Kinloss, Scotland, said: "Axing them was very short-sighted.
"These planes offer vital cover around our shores and keep us safe from attack from the sea.
"Without them we will have to rely on the French to monitor the skies and look for rogue vessels."
Defence expert John Lake said the decision ended "65 years of world-leading anti-sub and maritime patrol capability".
An MoD spokesman said: "We routinely operate alongside our allies and will utilise a range of military assets to ensure the integrity of UK waters."
French Atlantique planes operating from UK bases will monitor and intercept unauthorised ships and submarines.
The humiliation comes exactly 205 years to the day after Nelson's fleet saw off Napoleon at Trafalgar.
And The Sun can reveal that just as Prime Minister David Cameron was announcing the axing, TWO Russian submarines were intercepted less than 70 miles off our shores.
They had to be tracked by American P3 Orion jets because our Nimrods were grounded and the French planes had NO FUEL.
The incident was an embarrassing reminder to politicians about the importance of having eyes in the skies around Britain.
The nine Nimrods, which cost £3billion, were designed for anti-sub warfare and marine patrols.
A source at RAF Kinloss, Scotland, said: "Axing them was very short-sighted.
"These planes offer vital cover around our shores and keep us safe from attack from the sea.
"Without them we will have to rely on the French to monitor the skies and look for rogue vessels."
Defence expert John Lake said the decision ended "65 years of world-leading anti-sub and maritime patrol capability".
An MoD spokesman said: "We routinely operate alongside our allies and will utilise a range of military assets to ensure the integrity of UK waters."
Last edited by Flarkey; 22nd Oct 2010 at 08:14. Reason: spullin
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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Of course, not just Nimrod at ISK.
With the closure of the base, will the MRT move over to Lossie and if it does, is there even enough volunteers over there to fully man the Team?
I know that their primary role is the rescue of downed aircrew, but how big a gap would their departure from the MRT service leave?
I would guess that the gov't are not prepared to stump up the cash for a full time team in situ so i guess that this will be another asset removed, core skills lost and lives (Service and civlian) put at risk and probably lost.
Has anyone got any good news?
ps are the US P3s still at ISK - thought Joint Warrior had finished?
With the closure of the base, will the MRT move over to Lossie and if it does, is there even enough volunteers over there to fully man the Team?
I know that their primary role is the rescue of downed aircrew, but how big a gap would their departure from the MRT service leave?
I would guess that the gov't are not prepared to stump up the cash for a full time team in situ so i guess that this will be another asset removed, core skills lost and lives (Service and civlian) put at risk and probably lost.
Has anyone got any good news?
ps are the US P3s still at ISK - thought Joint Warrior had finished?