Nimrod MRA.4
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Sideshow Bob,
Just a bit Konfused by your comments to :-
routinely practice turning hard over the sea at 200' in rain at night
That's nearly as bad as saying "I was left on the fightdeck alone with just the Eng". Same consequence for the crew. It would be a deliberate deviation from the order book.
Why would it be a deliberate deviation??
Just a bit Konfused by your comments to :-
routinely practice turning hard over the sea at 200' in rain at night
That's nearly as bad as saying "I was left on the fightdeck alone with just the Eng". Same consequence for the crew. It would be a deliberate deviation from the order book.
Why would it be a deliberate deviation??
Roland,
How are the Iranians going to determine which tankers are carrying oil for the UK, as opposed to France, Germany, etc, etc....
Close the Straits of Hormuz and you have the entire global community down on your neck....not just the 9 MRA4s of the RAF!!!
Regarding N Korea, while I don't like to quote wikipedia as a totally reliable source, I believe the figure of 80 P-3C for the JMSDF is pretty accurate...
Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As for China, their livelihood is becoming increasingly dependent on us (the western world in general) buying the consumer goods they are producing in massive quantities, so why do they want to go to war with us......????
For what it is worth, I believe the UK should have an MPA fleet, but not for any of the reasons you have quoted!!!
How are the Iranians going to determine which tankers are carrying oil for the UK, as opposed to France, Germany, etc, etc....
Close the Straits of Hormuz and you have the entire global community down on your neck....not just the 9 MRA4s of the RAF!!!
Regarding N Korea, while I don't like to quote wikipedia as a totally reliable source, I believe the figure of 80 P-3C for the JMSDF is pretty accurate...
Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As for China, their livelihood is becoming increasingly dependent on us (the western world in general) buying the consumer goods they are producing in massive quantities, so why do they want to go to war with us......????
For what it is worth, I believe the UK should have an MPA fleet, but not for any of the reasons you have quoted!!!
Last edited by Biggus; 26th Jul 2010 at 18:59.
Biggus
OK I should have said the West's oil, or the rest of the world's oil.
And how much of the rest of the world have a credible ASW force? (OK until MRA4 arrives you might say we don't, but when it does.....)
And if you think China are becoming dependant upon "us", may I suggest a little research on China's targeted expansion into Africa. And it's eyes on the Spratly Islands and all that goes with them.
May I also suggest a little research on China's cyber warfare capabilities. Even the open source stuff thrown up by Google is pretty interesting.
OK I should have said the West's oil, or the rest of the world's oil.
And how much of the rest of the world have a credible ASW force? (OK until MRA4 arrives you might say we don't, but when it does.....)
And if you think China are becoming dependant upon "us", may I suggest a little research on China's targeted expansion into Africa. And it's eyes on the Spratly Islands and all that goes with them.
May I also suggest a little research on China's cyber warfare capabilities. Even the open source stuff thrown up by Google is pretty interesting.
Roland,
I'm aware of China's "cyber war" activities as you call them. As well as resource gathering (food, minerals, fuel) in such places as Africa (do you want offshore block numbers....who is China's partner in Block 18 off Angola, what % of African oil goes to China in comparison to say the USA or the EU?), South America and other parts of the world.
Much of this is to continue to fuel growth and expansion of a Chinese EXPORT led economy.
Then again, in 2005 Congress blocked the commercial sale of the Union Oil Company of California to CNOOC on strategic grounds. I'm not saying that was right or wrong, but on that basis the Chinese decided (once again I'm saying it was right or wrong) that they couldn't rely on the world open market to get oil. If you were in charge of a country with a rapidly expanding economy and found you couldn't guarantee to buy oil on the open market what would you do........
I can, and do read extensively. I feel we will have to agree to differ on our interpretations of China. I don't say the Chinese are saints, far from it, but they need us as much as we are coming to need them. Once again, I'm not saying that is a good thing, just that it is happening......
Anyway - WHEN IS THE FIRST MRA4 ARRIVING AT KINLOSS?
I'm aware of China's "cyber war" activities as you call them. As well as resource gathering (food, minerals, fuel) in such places as Africa (do you want offshore block numbers....who is China's partner in Block 18 off Angola, what % of African oil goes to China in comparison to say the USA or the EU?), South America and other parts of the world.
Much of this is to continue to fuel growth and expansion of a Chinese EXPORT led economy.
Then again, in 2005 Congress blocked the commercial sale of the Union Oil Company of California to CNOOC on strategic grounds. I'm not saying that was right or wrong, but on that basis the Chinese decided (once again I'm saying it was right or wrong) that they couldn't rely on the world open market to get oil. If you were in charge of a country with a rapidly expanding economy and found you couldn't guarantee to buy oil on the open market what would you do........
I can, and do read extensively. I feel we will have to agree to differ on our interpretations of China. I don't say the Chinese are saints, far from it, but they need us as much as we are coming to need them. Once again, I'm not saying that is a good thing, just that it is happening......
Anyway - WHEN IS THE FIRST MRA4 ARRIVING AT KINLOSS?
Last edited by Biggus; 26th Jul 2010 at 19:29.
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KonfusedofKinloss
Min height at night/IMC - 300' (as long as you had a radar plot, if not 1000')
Max bank at 300' 40deg.
Max bank at 200' 30deg
Easy Really
Min height at night/IMC - 300' (as long as you had a radar plot, if not 1000')
Max bank at 300' 40deg.
Max bank at 200' 30deg
Easy Really
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Anyway - WHEN IS THE FIRST MRA4 ARRIVING AT KINLOSS?
Its not even funny when you look at the number of agencies with fingers in the pie at the moment...
My comments on the Taleban subs was about a politicians perspective on the current situation chaps, not about the reality of other threats. These turkeys that we allow to run our countries cannot see past their big noses. The "yes Minister" syndrome has become an art form for all in Western 'Democracies'...
We're failing rapidly as we cannot read the tea leaves...
Cheer up chaps, things could be worse.....
We're failing rapidly as we cannot read the tea leaves...
Cheer up chaps, things could be worse.....
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KonfusedofKinloss
Pleasures all mine, the really sad thing is I last operated a Nimrod in 2004 and I still can't get the SOP's out of my head. It's taking up much need space.
Pleasures all mine, the really sad thing is I last operated a Nimrod in 2004 and I still can't get the SOP's out of my head. It's taking up much need space.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Exactly how many of the global community would deploy ASW assets comparable to MRA4 or P3/8 it that event?
While P3, Atlantique and the like are deployable, how many of our European allies would deploy? I suspect they would rely solely on ASW Frigates already deployed.
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Exactly how many of the global community would deploy ASW assets comparable to MRA4 or P3/8 it that event?
Are they still operating BTW?
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Anyway - WHEN IS THE FIRST MRA4 ARRIVING AT KINLOSS?
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So, what is the latest "official" date quoted for the arrival of the first MRA4 at Kinloss......
Assuming that anyone is brave enough to quote such a date of course!
Assuming that anyone is brave enough to quote such a date of course!
Could also be dependent on whether ISK is still open to receive it.
PN,
All links are obtained by google, and not the subject of intensive research.....
First of all, according to this link....
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/world_oi...ackground.html
....oil from the Straits of Hormuz goes mainly to USA, Japan, Asia and Western Europe. Therefore we can assume these countries "may" and I stress the word "may" contribute to a "coalition of the willing" to undertake some possible military response. Looking in more detail at these countries we see the following MPA available (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-3_Ori...tion_Navale,):
USA approx 150 P-3
Australia 18 P-3
Spain 10 P-3
Germany 8 P-3
Greece 6 P-3
Japan 80 P-3
NZ 6 P-3
Pakistan 10 P-3
Portugal 11 P-3
Canada 18 CP-140
France 26 Atlantique
Italy 12 Atlantique
You can comment all you like on the professionalism of some of these operators, but to consider that the Brits are the best of the bunch would be very arrogant. I haven't met or flown with many NATO MPA nations, but in my personal opinion the Dutch (before their unfortunate demise) were probably the best I did meet.
How many of the above would actally be willing to contribute in such a scenario is open to debate, but I think we could expect the USA, France, Australia and a couple of others, possibly including Japan, to take part.
Against all this, for a purely Tom Clancy like scenario which someone seems to be running with, the UK may be able to contribute up to 9 MRA4 in about 5 years time.....
By the way, given the geography of the Straits, and the tactics/platforms I would use if I were Iran, I would expect most MPA would end up working outside the Gulf anyway, defending the carriers, with most ASW being done inside the Gulf by Frigates and Helos..... I wouldn't expect to find the Iranian Kilos inside the Gulf.
In such a scenario, originally suggested by Roland I think, my preferred assets for neutralizing any Iranian sub threat wouldn't be MPA anyway! You (ex-)MPA people need to think outside the box more....
As I said before, (but nobody appears to be listening) I personally think the UK should have an MPA force, but nobody should be using some whacky Gulf scenario to justify the existence of such a force!
All links are obtained by google, and not the subject of intensive research.....
First of all, according to this link....
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/world_oi...ackground.html
....oil from the Straits of Hormuz goes mainly to USA, Japan, Asia and Western Europe. Therefore we can assume these countries "may" and I stress the word "may" contribute to a "coalition of the willing" to undertake some possible military response. Looking in more detail at these countries we see the following MPA available (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-3_Ori...tion_Navale,):
USA approx 150 P-3
Australia 18 P-3
Spain 10 P-3
Germany 8 P-3
Greece 6 P-3
Japan 80 P-3
NZ 6 P-3
Pakistan 10 P-3
Portugal 11 P-3
Canada 18 CP-140
France 26 Atlantique
Italy 12 Atlantique
You can comment all you like on the professionalism of some of these operators, but to consider that the Brits are the best of the bunch would be very arrogant. I haven't met or flown with many NATO MPA nations, but in my personal opinion the Dutch (before their unfortunate demise) were probably the best I did meet.
How many of the above would actally be willing to contribute in such a scenario is open to debate, but I think we could expect the USA, France, Australia and a couple of others, possibly including Japan, to take part.
Against all this, for a purely Tom Clancy like scenario which someone seems to be running with, the UK may be able to contribute up to 9 MRA4 in about 5 years time.....
By the way, given the geography of the Straits, and the tactics/platforms I would use if I were Iran, I would expect most MPA would end up working outside the Gulf anyway, defending the carriers, with most ASW being done inside the Gulf by Frigates and Helos..... I wouldn't expect to find the Iranian Kilos inside the Gulf.
In such a scenario, originally suggested by Roland I think, my preferred assets for neutralizing any Iranian sub threat wouldn't be MPA anyway! You (ex-)MPA people need to think outside the box more....
As I said before, (but nobody appears to be listening) I personally think the UK should have an MPA force, but nobody should be using some whacky Gulf scenario to justify the existence of such a force!
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Nimrod MRA 4 could be the best LRMP aircraft; the RAF could field the best crews - it matters not. If the balloon goes up, with a fleet of just nine, you'll be taking a knife to a gunfight.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Of Australia and France, I would go with Australia but I don't know about France. Have they deployed MPA to that region?
Anyway, you answered my question with just One and that, AFAIK, is an unknown.
So where does that leave us?