Nimrod MRA.4
Join Date: May 2006
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Eight of the aircraft were heavily upgraded MR2 airframes with new engines and missions systems.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Dear Y-G
"........I do not have intimate knowledge of current MRA4 performance, but knowing the capabilities of the MR2 and what has changed to make it an MRA4, I will still be very surprised to see it fly 6000 nm in one go."
Prepare to be surprised, as you appear to have very little understanding of "what has changed to make it an MRA4".
Comparing MRA4 to MR2 is like comparing a Series 1 E-Type to a Series 3. Both E-Type jags but completely different cars.
Prepare to be surprised, as you appear to have very little understanding of "what has changed to make it an MRA4".
Comparing MRA4 to MR2 is like comparing a Series 1 E-Type to a Series 3. Both E-Type jags but completely different cars.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Comparing MRA4 to MR2 is like comparing a Series 1 E-Type to a Series 3. Both E-Type jags but completely different cars.
First of all, I am not "bashing" the MRA4, however, to examine the (companies?) claim of flying 6000nm in one go.....
Looking at it as an academic exerise, in terms of simple maths, and ignoring loss of speed in the climb and descent, if the aircraft has an average groundspeed of 400kts, then it will take it 6000/400 = 15 hours flight time to cover 6000nm. That gives you some idea of what we are looking at.
Questions which now need to be asked to decide if it is feasible include at least:
The max flight time for MRA4?
Groundspeed achieved (at endurance speed?)?
Wind component applicable for route?
We'll ignore such things as diversion fuel, etc....
400kts groundspeed (still air) was a good back-of-a-fag-packet planning figure for the MR2 at range speed, and I believe the MRA4 is slower? If you can find yourself a 6000nm long route with about 50kts plus of tail component then I have no doubt the MRA4 could theoretically fly for 6000nm in one go. Could it do it in still air.....I don't know, I don't have enough information!
Overall, it's rather a mote point, with numerous variables. I just hope nobody is producing pretty maps with 3000nm range circles on them....
Looking at it as an academic exerise, in terms of simple maths, and ignoring loss of speed in the climb and descent, if the aircraft has an average groundspeed of 400kts, then it will take it 6000/400 = 15 hours flight time to cover 6000nm. That gives you some idea of what we are looking at.
Questions which now need to be asked to decide if it is feasible include at least:
The max flight time for MRA4?
Groundspeed achieved (at endurance speed?)?
Wind component applicable for route?
We'll ignore such things as diversion fuel, etc....
400kts groundspeed (still air) was a good back-of-a-fag-packet planning figure for the MR2 at range speed, and I believe the MRA4 is slower? If you can find yourself a 6000nm long route with about 50kts plus of tail component then I have no doubt the MRA4 could theoretically fly for 6000nm in one go. Could it do it in still air.....I don't know, I don't have enough information!
Overall, it's rather a mote point, with numerous variables. I just hope nobody is producing pretty maps with 3000nm range circles on them....
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Strato Q
"The MRA4 will surpass the MR2 in the maritime role very quickly."
Who has been telling you that? Or have you been reading the spin from BAE? Define "very quickly"
"The MRA4 will surpass the MR2 in the maritime role very quickly."
Who has been telling you that? Or have you been reading the spin from BAE? Define "very quickly"
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Good luck to all of you on the Mighty 4! I'm off to pastures new and won't fly her. Ignore the bashings on here, it will need tweaking when you get it but it will come on quickly and you will have an excellent platform on your hands!
Hopefully, someone will see sense, clear the full gambit of weaponry, buy a few more frames and can some of the 50000 Eurofighters we have bought - after all, if they are as good as they keep telling us then we don't need as many do we!!
Chow fellas and lasses- and no, I'm not available to come in off resettlement to fill that sim slot during operation keep busy!
Hopefully, someone will see sense, clear the full gambit of weaponry, buy a few more frames and can some of the 50000 Eurofighters we have bought - after all, if they are as good as they keep telling us then we don't need as many do we!!
Chow fellas and lasses- and no, I'm not available to come in off resettlement to fill that sim slot during operation keep busy!
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Kind Words
Vage,
thank you for the kind words. Those of us with a close association to the program know the potential inherent in the platform, it's just a case of teasing it out at a pace that matches the available funds. It just gets a little depressing at times and occasionally you wonder whether it's worth all the effort just to have it thrown back in your face. Fortunatley most of us know that the years of work will be repaid in full plus interest when the final reckoning is done (in about 25-30 years with luck!).
I hope resettlement works out, keep in touch, any time you need a chaperone at ISK, give me call!
Rgds
SFO
thank you for the kind words. Those of us with a close association to the program know the potential inherent in the platform, it's just a case of teasing it out at a pace that matches the available funds. It just gets a little depressing at times and occasionally you wonder whether it's worth all the effort just to have it thrown back in your face. Fortunatley most of us know that the years of work will be repaid in full plus interest when the final reckoning is done (in about 25-30 years with luck!).
I hope resettlement works out, keep in touch, any time you need a chaperone at ISK, give me call!
Rgds
SFO
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Couldn't find anything in that Jockistani rag; however, here it is from the BBC:
BBC News - RAF Kinloss Nimrod deployment delayed
Is this delay due to yet another of 't Bungling Baron's bungles?
Another 'capability holiday' gap fast becoming a yawning chasm....
BBC News - RAF Kinloss Nimrod deployment delayed
Is this delay due to yet another of 't Bungling Baron's bungles?
Another 'capability holiday' gap fast becoming a yawning chasm....
Join Date: May 2006
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Angus Robertson via BBC;
"It actually makes the case for the retention of Kinloss because it shows and highlights how important the Nimrod aircraft are around the nation's shores and it underlines why this incoming Liberal Conservative government needs to ensure that they do not undermine the defence footprint in Scotland, which has already suffered, under the last Labour government, serious cutbacks and a massive defence underspend."
"It actually makes the case for the retention of Kinloss because it shows and highlights how important the Nimrod aircraft are around the nation's shores and it underlines why this incoming Liberal Conservative government needs to ensure that they do not undermine the defence footprint in Scotland, which has already suffered, under the last Labour government, serious cutbacks and a massive defence underspend."
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Amazing to see how politicians and the media can conspire to create a non story from so few crumbs.
If I'm not much mistaken, Angus Robertson (SNP Moray) has fed the Scottish press the line about a further MRA4 delay based on the following answer he got to a written question:
RAF Kinloss: 16 Jun 2010: Written answers and statements (TheyWorkForYou.com)
Perhaps he's reading a different reply. Admittedly the answer is typical Ministry blandness; however, nowhere does it mention any new delays. Does Angus know something the rest of us don't?
If I'm not much mistaken, Angus Robertson (SNP Moray) has fed the Scottish press the line about a further MRA4 delay based on the following answer he got to a written question:
RAF Kinloss: 16 Jun 2010: Written answers and statements (TheyWorkForYou.com)
Perhaps he's reading a different reply. Admittedly the answer is typical Ministry blandness; however, nowhere does it mention any new delays. Does Angus know something the rest of us don't?
Join Date: Nov 2007
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This is typical Robertson drivel. If he has specific evidence that the MRA4 isn't going to arrive at ISK by later summer then he should release it. Although you cannot always believe what the MoD says, in my experience the SNP very rarely gets things right.
Join Date: May 2002
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If the late summer target is to be achieved, a better question to ask might be, how often has PA4 flown at Warton since it was "delivered" in March and how often has PA5 flown since it was painted at Manchester, again in March? Someone involved in the MRA4 project may be able to answer.
