Nimrod MRA.4
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
The MR2 is a fantastic platform but not just because of the nuts and bolts. The way our crews fly it makes it the best in the world. The MRA4 together with those same crews will do so much more.
It might be great for winning a trophy and flying the flag, but the numbers seem totally operationally inadequate as an MRA force. Even as a dedicated recce platform for ops such as Afghanistan it seems inadequate to maintain a 24 hour orbit whilst still having a UK training element plus exercises, deep maintenance etc.
Maybe it would be too embarrassing to admit that, thanks to BAe, we are effectively out of the ASW business - just like we are out of the maritime strike business and the photo recce business.
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But with a fleet of 6, what the f*ck's the point?
It might be great for winning a trophy and flying the flag, but the numbers seem totally operationally inadequate as an MRA force. Even as a dedicated recce platform for ops such as Afghanistan it seems inadequate to maintain a 24 hour orbit whilst still having a UK training element plus exercises, deep maintenance etc.
Maybe it would be too embarrassing to admit that, thanks to BAe, we are effectively out of the ASW business - just like we are out of the maritime strike business and the photo recce business.
It might be great for winning a trophy and flying the flag, but the numbers seem totally operationally inadequate as an MRA force. Even as a dedicated recce platform for ops such as Afghanistan it seems inadequate to maintain a 24 hour orbit whilst still having a UK training element plus exercises, deep maintenance etc.
Maybe it would be too embarrassing to admit that, thanks to BAe, we are effectively out of the ASW business - just like we are out of the maritime strike business and the photo recce business.
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Nice one Anita.......
So can you fill us all in on how great the new mighty hunter is going to be?
There is so much "its going to be as good as the MR2" that much of us can take. While i agree that if it all worked as was specified many moons ago it would be (may be still be....) a great weapon system, i do feel that Kinloss are in for a shock. It wont be. Initially. For a good few years........
Feel free to let us know given the vast mission system testing that has taken place (!) you can even make that assumption?
I'm fed up of bashing something close to my heart but you appear to be spouting a corporate line that is misleading at best.
So can you fill us all in on how great the new mighty hunter is going to be?
There is so much "its going to be as good as the MR2" that much of us can take. While i agree that if it all worked as was specified many moons ago it would be (may be still be....) a great weapon system, i do feel that Kinloss are in for a shock. It wont be. Initially. For a good few years........
Feel free to let us know given the vast mission system testing that has taken place (!) you can even make that assumption?
I'm fed up of bashing something close to my heart but you appear to be spouting a corporate line that is misleading at best.
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I am guessing that Anita is possibly referring to the fact that there may still be 9 MRA4 going to make it to Kinloss, at least I hope so.
I also remain sceptical as to how useful the aircraft really will be, especially in its first few years of service, and no amount of bluster from those that either think they "know", or are directly involved will make me change my mind.
Still, I look forward to its first visit over here in 21??
Y_G
I also remain sceptical as to how useful the aircraft really will be, especially in its first few years of service, and no amount of bluster from those that either think they "know", or are directly involved will make me change my mind.
Still, I look forward to its first visit over here in 21??
Y_G
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42 Squadron Nimrod Mk 2
It took a while for the MR2 to become settled. It was only after 42s crews converted that the true potential came to fruition. I suggest that Kinloss closes & St Mawgan should reopen & 42 reforms as an operational squadron. Will there be room to stow my Zimmer on the Mk 4
?
?
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No filling in needed. Maybe just a few happy tablets and a bit of deep breathing for the excited folk. In particular, grousehunter, who seems to be ready for a bit of 'internet-milling'. You might want to lay off the sugary foods so close to midnight, it makes you come over all punchy and you look a bit stupid for it.
Any new project will go through a period of 'bedding in', regardless of the amount of time spent in trials. This is not "corporate line" or "misleading", it's a fact that anyone who has been involved with new kit will be able to confirm.
And yes, Y-G, the number of aircraft was the big trigger in my reply. Does ORAC know something that we don't? Something factual, that is?
Any new project will go through a period of 'bedding in', regardless of the amount of time spent in trials. This is not "corporate line" or "misleading", it's a fact that anyone who has been involved with new kit will be able to confirm.
And yes, Y-G, the number of aircraft was the big trigger in my reply. Does ORAC know something that we don't? Something factual, that is?
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Nimrod 2010
The MRA4 was officially granted Type Acceptance earlier this week. PA04, the first MRA4 delivered to the RAF, will now be working up from its base at BAE Warton.
PA01 and PA02 the two non-standard development aircraft, ended test flying early March, and were flown to BAE Woodford for storage, their final fate undecided.
PA01 and PA02 the two non-standard development aircraft, ended test flying early March, and were flown to BAE Woodford for storage, their final fate undecided.
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WTN
This link: Nimrod MRA4 Declared 'Ready to Train' - BAE Systems
is all part of the rumour too then?
Regards to all up north
CK
This link: Nimrod MRA4 Declared 'Ready to Train' - BAE Systems
is all part of the rumour too then?
Regards to all up north
CK
WTN
So what exactly did Gp Capt Kessell accept.....??
That BAE "spin" that you refer to are the same words that are coming out of the mouths of RAF senior management on the project....
As of Wed 10 Mar PA04 is an RAF aircraft. I agree there was no great event with CAS being formally handed the F700, against a backdrop of the aircraft in a hangar, dry ice clouds everywhere and suitable music - maybe a deliberately low profile given the history of the project, but it happened.
I think you are well out of the loop mate, and eventually you will have to accept it!!!
So what exactly did Gp Capt Kessell accept.....??
That BAE "spin" that you refer to are the same words that are coming out of the mouths of RAF senior management on the project....
As of Wed 10 Mar PA04 is an RAF aircraft. I agree there was no great event with CAS being formally handed the F700, against a backdrop of the aircraft in a hangar, dry ice clouds everywhere and suitable music - maybe a deliberately low profile given the history of the project, but it happened.
I think you are well out of the loop mate, and eventually you will have to accept it!!!
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From the BAE Systems website ...
Spin is a wonderful thing, and almost anything can be made to sound possible. Yes you might be able to scan an area the size of UK every 10 seconds, but only if you are in the middle of a 200 mile radius circle that you want to scan. You cannot scan the UK in 10 seconds. I will reserve judgement on whether the aircraft can fly for 14 hours or 6000nm without refuelling.
However
What delivery schedule are they working to now? Certainly not the first, most probably not the second, probably not even the third .... but hey, it sounds good news that it is being delivered on schedule.
The fact that the second production aircraft has only just taken to the air for the first time this month does not bode well for an early IOC date (end of this year I seem to remember reading once upon a time).
Does anyone know when the aircraft are all due to be delivered to Kinloss? Here's hoping that they get delivered soon, before everyone leaves and all experience is lost.
Y_G
Equipped with more than 90 antennae and sensors and containing over six million lines of software code, the MRA4 is able to scan an area the size of the UK every 10 seconds. The aircraft is able to fly 6000 miles or 14 hours without refuelling.
However
A further milestone was achieved on March 8, with the first flight of the second production aircraft, PA05, which is now being painted in RAF livery before undergoing acceptance flights. The remaining seven production aircraft are all in build and will be delivered on schedule.
The fact that the second production aircraft has only just taken to the air for the first time this month does not bode well for an early IOC date (end of this year I seem to remember reading once upon a time).
Does anyone know when the aircraft are all due to be delivered to Kinloss? Here's hoping that they get delivered soon, before everyone leaves and all experience is lost.
Y_G
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Positive vibes from WTN and Yeller Gay
The font of all know how and press hungry whores spring to ones mind.
The loosers who cant get a job are bitter , go ram it as you were never good enough to be chosen for the future
The font of all know how and press hungry whores spring to ones mind.
The loosers who cant get a job are bitter , go ram it as you were never good enough to be chosen for the future
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Hey Old Yeller,
Just in the interests of accuracy; the 2 statements that you derided were not "spun" by BAE Systems. They were actually made (about 8 years ago) by an RAF chappie in response to a request for some "eye-catching" facts about the systems' capabilities. There were several more, similar ones, and all were based on VERY simply sums involving Pi, circle radii, typical heights and so on, and they were "targetted" at the great British public - not "expert" audiences. It's a shame that so few people have ever taken the time to look for the positives with this aeroplane - I guess time will tell.
Just in the interests of accuracy; the 2 statements that you derided were not "spun" by BAE Systems. They were actually made (about 8 years ago) by an RAF chappie in response to a request for some "eye-catching" facts about the systems' capabilities. There were several more, similar ones, and all were based on VERY simply sums involving Pi, circle radii, typical heights and so on, and they were "targetted" at the great British public - not "expert" audiences. It's a shame that so few people have ever taken the time to look for the positives with this aeroplane - I guess time will tell.
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YG you say -"I will reserve judgement on whether the aircraft can fly for 14 hours or 6000nm without refuelling."
What a clever and responsible chap you must be to be able to pass judgement on an aircraft limitations.
Presumably this is because of your close association with all the development work, access to trials results, performance data and other MRA4 documentation.
What a clever and responsible chap you must be to be able to pass judgement on an aircraft limitations.
Presumably this is because of your close association with all the development work, access to trials results, performance data and other MRA4 documentation.
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OK, I'll bite.
Having now recovered from the internet battering (see above posts), I can only assume that Well Travelled Nav speaks a lot of truth as he seems to have gotten away scot free.
For Headstone, you are right, I do not have intimate knowledge of current MRA4 performance, but knowing the capabilities of the MR2 and what has changed to make it an MRA4, I will still be very surprised to see it fly 6000 nm in one go.
I was only quoting the BAE Systems website "spin", so if some senior RAF officer gave them the quote, what can I say?
For RumPunch, learn some spelling and grammar, and if you are one of the winners working for the future, best of luck to those who have to work with you.
Back to the original question, what is the latest scheduled delivery date for aircraft to Kinloss? You cannot train crews without aircraft, and slowly but surely experience will get taken away from Kinloss without aircraft to fly.
Y_G
Having now recovered from the internet battering (see above posts), I can only assume that Well Travelled Nav speaks a lot of truth as he seems to have gotten away scot free.
For Headstone, you are right, I do not have intimate knowledge of current MRA4 performance, but knowing the capabilities of the MR2 and what has changed to make it an MRA4, I will still be very surprised to see it fly 6000 nm in one go.
I was only quoting the BAE Systems website "spin", so if some senior RAF officer gave them the quote, what can I say?
For RumPunch, learn some spelling and grammar, and if you are one of the winners working for the future, best of luck to those who have to work with you.
Back to the original question, what is the latest scheduled delivery date for aircraft to Kinloss? You cannot train crews without aircraft, and slowly but surely experience will get taken away from Kinloss without aircraft to fly.
Y_G
Last edited by Yeller_Gait; 15th Mar 2010 at 10:31. Reason: Because I can
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http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?c=AIR&s=TOP&i=4535359
RAF Accepts 1st Nimrod MRA4
By andrew chuter
Published: 11 Mar 2010 14:12
LONDON - The first BAE Systems Nimrod MRA4 maritime surveillance aircraft destined for the Royal Air Force has been formally accepted and declared ready for crew training by Britain's Ministry of Defence.
The aircraft is the first of nine MRA4s ordered to fulfill maritime and wider intelligence surveillance, target acquisition and reconnaissance roles for the air force here.
Handover of the first production aircraft may have taken place but it will be 2012 before the machine is introduced into service following a decision by the government late last year to delay its operational debut in order to help cut Britain's defense equipment overspend.
The decision also involved taking the current Nimrod MR2 surveillance aircraft out of service at the end of this month, 12 months earlier than planned. The move leaves Britain with no credible long-range maritime surveillance capability for about two years.
The MR2's exit from service was hurried by a 2006 crash in Afghanistan that killed 14 and raised questions about its safety.
Defense ministers have said the gap between the departure of the MR2 and the arrival of the MRA4 will be covered by helicopters and Lockheed Martin Hercules C-130s.
The first MRA4 has moved from the Woodford, England, production facility to BAE's Warton site for RAF crew training. The machine is scheduled to transfer to its main operating base at Kinloss, Scotland, in late summer once an initial release to service and a support contract are in place.
The second of the nine production standard MRA4s flew earlier this month and deliveries of the nine aircraft are planned to be complete by 2012.
Eight of the aircraft were heavily upgraded MR2 airframes with new engines and missions systems.
The ninth aircraft is one of three pre-production aircraft originally upgraded by BAE for test flying. The remaining two test machines will be placed in storage having already retired from the development program.
Delivery of the final aircraft will see BAE close the Woodford manufacturing site near Manchester later in the year.
The formal acceptance of the first aircraft is a further step toward the conclusion of a program which has been dogged for years by technical issues and cost overruns.
Twenty-one of the aircraft were originally ordered by the MoD with an in-service date of 2003. The number of airframes has been continually reduced: first to 18 and then to 12 before the government finally settled on just nine aircraft.
RAF Accepts 1st Nimrod MRA4
By andrew chuter
Published: 11 Mar 2010 14:12
LONDON - The first BAE Systems Nimrod MRA4 maritime surveillance aircraft destined for the Royal Air Force has been formally accepted and declared ready for crew training by Britain's Ministry of Defence.
The aircraft is the first of nine MRA4s ordered to fulfill maritime and wider intelligence surveillance, target acquisition and reconnaissance roles for the air force here.
Handover of the first production aircraft may have taken place but it will be 2012 before the machine is introduced into service following a decision by the government late last year to delay its operational debut in order to help cut Britain's defense equipment overspend.
The decision also involved taking the current Nimrod MR2 surveillance aircraft out of service at the end of this month, 12 months earlier than planned. The move leaves Britain with no credible long-range maritime surveillance capability for about two years.
The MR2's exit from service was hurried by a 2006 crash in Afghanistan that killed 14 and raised questions about its safety.
Defense ministers have said the gap between the departure of the MR2 and the arrival of the MRA4 will be covered by helicopters and Lockheed Martin Hercules C-130s.
The first MRA4 has moved from the Woodford, England, production facility to BAE's Warton site for RAF crew training. The machine is scheduled to transfer to its main operating base at Kinloss, Scotland, in late summer once an initial release to service and a support contract are in place.
The second of the nine production standard MRA4s flew earlier this month and deliveries of the nine aircraft are planned to be complete by 2012.
Eight of the aircraft were heavily upgraded MR2 airframes with new engines and missions systems.
The ninth aircraft is one of three pre-production aircraft originally upgraded by BAE for test flying. The remaining two test machines will be placed in storage having already retired from the development program.
Delivery of the final aircraft will see BAE close the Woodford manufacturing site near Manchester later in the year.
The formal acceptance of the first aircraft is a further step toward the conclusion of a program which has been dogged for years by technical issues and cost overruns.
Twenty-one of the aircraft were originally ordered by the MoD with an in-service date of 2003. The number of airframes has been continually reduced: first to 18 and then to 12 before the government finally settled on just nine aircraft.