Somali pirates hijack ship; 20 Americans aboard
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The ship was the Maersk Alabama.
It is operated by the Maersk Line... a US-based subsidary of the Danish company A.P. Moller-Maersk Group.
Maersk lines provides U.S. flag transportation, ship management and technical services to government and commercial customers.
U.S. Flag Transportation Service offers flexible and reliable end-to-end transport for any U.S. government cargo, from containers and military vehicles, to breakbulk and humanitarian food aid.
Maersk Line, Limited: Home
In order to get the US government contracts, the ship(s) to be used must be US-flagged and crewed by US-nationals.
It is operated by the Maersk Line... a US-based subsidary of the Danish company A.P. Moller-Maersk Group.
Maersk lines provides U.S. flag transportation, ship management and technical services to government and commercial customers.
U.S. Flag Transportation Service offers flexible and reliable end-to-end transport for any U.S. government cargo, from containers and military vehicles, to breakbulk and humanitarian food aid.
Maersk Line, Limited: Home
In order to get the US government contracts, the ship(s) to be used must be US-flagged and crewed by US-nationals.
The Danish Navy (yeah, don't laugh, Maersk-SeaLand is the world's largest shipping company, and it's Danish) has ships patrolling the area and has avenged piracy numerous times and captured numerous pirates.
Regrettably when capturing the bastards, the problem has been: Hmmm, we serve the the navy of a civilised country that doesn't bend it's own laws or international treaties, what now ? And guess what, they've have had to let them go ! International law is simply inadequate for this !
There's always the plank.
They could have ben declared illegal pirates, flown somewhere, had dogs bite them, kept forever.
I do realise the ambivalience of my post: When are people bastards and can be shot / drowned / tortured / killed ? Guess we need to define what international democracy is ?
Regrettably when capturing the bastards, the problem has been: Hmmm, we serve the the navy of a civilised country that doesn't bend it's own laws or international treaties, what now ? And guess what, they've have had to let them go ! International law is simply inadequate for this !
There's always the plank.
They could have ben declared illegal pirates, flown somewhere, had dogs bite them, kept forever.
I do realise the ambivalience of my post: When are people bastards and can be shot / drowned / tortured / killed ? Guess we need to define what international democracy is ?
Last edited by Gargleblaster; 9th Apr 2009 at 00:51.
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Guess we need to define what's international democracy is ?
See you all in a few hundred years...
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It's unlikely to happen in today's crazy mixed up world, but the US (and the whole world) would do well to resolve this ongoing problem the way Benjamin Franklin did at the turn of another century. It would be about as politically incorrect as things can get, but it's the only language the pirates will understand.
To assuage the conciences of the PC, they could give anyone living in every one of the pirate ports 24 hours to get out of town, then blow everything that floats or could float in those ports to very many pieces - and come back and do it again and again every time any ship is attacked. The fishermen (yeah, right) and their families would suffer, not being able to fish, but the problem would go away. (As would, temporarily at least, the bad guys if 24 hours warning was given before any such attack.)
To assuage the conciences of the PC, they could give anyone living in every one of the pirate ports 24 hours to get out of town, then blow everything that floats or could float in those ports to very many pieces - and come back and do it again and again every time any ship is attacked. The fishermen (yeah, right) and their families would suffer, not being able to fish, but the problem would go away. (As would, temporarily at least, the bad guys if 24 hours warning was given before any such attack.)
Last edited by Wiley; 15th Apr 2009 at 08:46. Reason: Typo. Beating the spelling police
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Kill'm all let god sort it out!!!
Unfortunatly... most of the world agress to negotiate with terrorists and apease them.....
this will not end until armed forces in the area begin blowing the **** out of these guys on sight instead of capturing them... then letting them go....
Unfortunatly... most of the world agress to negotiate with terrorists and apease them.....
this will not end until armed forces in the area begin blowing the **** out of these guys on sight instead of capturing them... then letting them go....
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How many merchant vessels would have 20 Americans in the crew? Most vessels of this kind have a few European or American officers and the rest are seamen from third world countries.
Definitely a set up as far as I can see.
Definitely a set up as far as I can see.
Unfortunatly... most of the world agress to negotiate with terrorists and apease them.....
this will not end until armed forces in the area begin blowing the **** out of these guys on sight instead of capturing them... then letting them go....
this will not end until armed forces in the area begin blowing the **** out of these guys on sight instead of capturing them... then letting them go....
Last edited by OFBSLF; 10th Apr 2009 at 18:00.
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Maybe they should think of starting a convoy system.
Might have been a one time deal I suppose
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Nothing new about pirates.
Rome had the right idea when, in 67BC the citizens gave Pompey the job of sorting 'em out. Only took him a few months. Same strategy would work today given the political will.
Rome had the right idea when, in 67BC the citizens gave Pompey the job of sorting 'em out. Only took him a few months. Same strategy would work today given the political will.
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The most logical end to this situation would be divers from the US warship drill holes in the life boat hull, thus sinking it. Whereby the pirates would have to ditch the AK's in order to swim. Simple solution.
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OK - now all you kill'm all let god sort it out!!!
Nuke'm , vulcanise and blow ém out of the water Yank military geniuses have finished your chest thumping........................
What's your next move boys?
I mean ...to get the Captain back?
Escalate to a Carrier Group maybe?
Nuke'm , vulcanise and blow ém out of the water Yank military geniuses have finished your chest thumping........................
What's your next move boys?
I mean ...to get the Captain back?
Escalate to a Carrier Group maybe?
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"The most logical end to this situation would be divers from the US warship drill holes in the life boat hull, thus sinking it. Whereby the pirates would have to ditch the AK's in order to swim. Simple solution."
Only feasible outcome. Unless they let the pirates sail away, having negotiated fuel.
Watch this space for my prediction.
ps. As of this post BBC Five live....German cargo ship has been boarded.
Only feasible outcome. Unless they let the pirates sail away, having negotiated fuel.
Watch this space for my prediction.
ps. As of this post BBC Five live....German cargo ship has been boarded.
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dazdaz
That's bizarre - I was thinking exactly that only this morning - I guess the divers would have to wear re-breathers (?) to avoid bubbles, but my guess is the US will come up with something far more complex to resolve the problem. A bit like the US solution to writing in space - spent millions inventing a special pen to work in zero gravity, but the Russians just used pencils!
STH
The most logical end to this situation would be divers from the US warship drill holes in the life boat hull, thus sinking it. Whereby the pirates would have to ditch the AK's in order to swim. Simple solution.
STH
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At least the USN had destroyer on scene within a day or two. How long would it have taken the RN, do you think? That's no criticism - you know I hold the RN in the highest regard - but merely reflecting on the shortage of hulls to do all the tasks expected.
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Hate to do it to you TopHat 
snopes.com: NASA Space Pen
A bit like the US solution to writing in space - spent millions inventing a special pen to work in zero gravity, but the Russians just used pencils!
" None, have done anything to get their ship or people back that would ensure the behaviour does not continue. They have all chickened out waiting for the Yanks to suffer a loss and have them do something about it"Thanks for that Airborne Aircrew...
Look, just like in 1939 you chaps in places like Detroit jolly well need to keep up with what's going on in the World. For a starter :http://http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/2009/04/10/01003-20090410ARTFIG00685-tanit-un-otage-francais-tue-dans-l-operation-de-liberation-.php
And if the language is a challenge or you if find accents frightening perhaps this will help:
http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7994201.stm
There's more going on in the World than "USA Today" or "Fox News" would have you believe...If you spent less time throwing tea in the harbour
...or taxing French Cheese you'd have more time to read the International Press.
Last edited by wiggy; 11th Apr 2009 at 05:07.
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I hope Captain Hancock gets 'em!!!!
It's easy to jump to the solution of killing the pirates and I can understand doing it. Revenge, deterrent and that lovely satisfaction that a reactionary gets when he knows someone else somewhere has to take a human life in a brutal and messy manner.
But the fact that various governments are not jumping to that conclusion not only indicates that for all their faults governments are still at least trying to be civilised but maybe it just isn't that simple as sending a SSM straight at the pirates convoys of armed inflatable lilos and assorted fishing vessels and stolen boats.
Maybe there is the possibility of innocent friendly casualties? The French fired on a hijacked yacht today and killed a couple of pirates but also a hostage. I'm sure the pirates are smarting from that method of conflict resolution but the hostage is dead too - but no worries because it isn't your family is it?
Then maybe there is the issue that if the pirates were killed & if the hostages got off OK that somewhere else in the mess that is that part of Africa retribution would be taken on other innocents.
Of course our governments never negotiate with terrorists - but the what is the desired out come of the situation? To blow up a pirate and leave a few heavily injured with blood, snot and brains covering the remains of the pirate vessel as a warning to other pirates - or to safely get back the innocent crew, the vessel and the valuable cargo?
Of course it'd be great to get one of our navies Big Fancy Killing Systems and blow up some pirates but descending to their level of criminal nastiness might not actually help unless we can target them accurately with minimal chance of negative fall out.And in my experience god rarely gets involved and sorts it out - he leaves the messy business, burials and medical care, insurance payouts and legal issues n stuff to humans. Slacker that he is.
But the fact that various governments are not jumping to that conclusion not only indicates that for all their faults governments are still at least trying to be civilised but maybe it just isn't that simple as sending a SSM straight at the pirates convoys of armed inflatable lilos and assorted fishing vessels and stolen boats.
Maybe there is the possibility of innocent friendly casualties? The French fired on a hijacked yacht today and killed a couple of pirates but also a hostage. I'm sure the pirates are smarting from that method of conflict resolution but the hostage is dead too - but no worries because it isn't your family is it?
Then maybe there is the issue that if the pirates were killed & if the hostages got off OK that somewhere else in the mess that is that part of Africa retribution would be taken on other innocents.
Of course our governments never negotiate with terrorists - but the what is the desired out come of the situation? To blow up a pirate and leave a few heavily injured with blood, snot and brains covering the remains of the pirate vessel as a warning to other pirates - or to safely get back the innocent crew, the vessel and the valuable cargo?
Of course it'd be great to get one of our navies Big Fancy Killing Systems and blow up some pirates but descending to their level of criminal nastiness might not actually help unless we can target them accurately with minimal chance of negative fall out.And in my experience god rarely gets involved and sorts it out - he leaves the messy business, burials and medical care, insurance payouts and legal issues n stuff to humans. Slacker that he is.