Pablo Mason loses unfair dismissal case
With the best will in the world to the man, who in the days of Empire would probably have created Masopetomia and whose Son today is a very fine RAF pilot, he was a bit of a tit as an airline pilot.
Being quite a bit of a tit for quite a long time he eventually got fired.
Shall we draw this thread to a close now? I doubt he's enjoying it and am given to understand he'd reading it.
WWW
Being quite a bit of a tit for quite a long time he eventually got fired.
Shall we draw this thread to a close now? I doubt he's enjoying it and am given to understand he'd reading it.
WWW
It was a play on that with a hint of Rhodes and Rhodesia.
WWW
WWW
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Mr Nicholl
Still, I've never shied away from the fact that I could have made a switch pigs over the tgt - interestingly, the Sqn QWI later gave a very interesting chat about what might have gone wrong (not switch pigs), but as with many QWI lectures, it was a bit over my head.
I've only been on this forum for 2 and a bit years so have not seen the discussions on PPRUNE you allude to a few years ago; just answer me this(as a fellow GR1 Nav flying on night 1 from Dhahran), did you and JP release any type of explosive ordanance on your designated DMPI?
If not then, by association, you must have had some form of technical glich shall we say. I would not blame you for that, we all were under extreme pressure at the time and switch sequences on the "Fin" were sometimes inordinatly complicated.
What got/get's my goat about you two was/is the smarmy self serving way that you both came/come across on TV. I and a lot of others thought that what you did by overtly publicising and profitting from your experiences was not on and it was not appropriate, bearing in mind the number of guy's who lost their lives during the war (and yes I know that you donated a little of your profits to service charities).
Your unfortunate incaceration was clearly not something that most people could come to terms with and I was delighted when you and the rest of the POW's were released.
Notwithstanding that, books are things you write towards the end of your time and not when you have only been in a war for one sortie.......... it's not what true heroes do and there's an end to it.
3P
aka Gedgie
aka Jerry Gegg
Sqn Ldr RAF (Retd)
I've only been on this forum for 2 and a bit years so have not seen the discussions on PPRUNE you allude to a few years ago; just answer me this(as a fellow GR1 Nav flying on night 1 from Dhahran), did you and JP release any type of explosive ordanance on your designated DMPI?
If not then, by association, you must have had some form of technical glich shall we say. I would not blame you for that, we all were under extreme pressure at the time and switch sequences on the "Fin" were sometimes inordinatly complicated.
What got/get's my goat about you two was/is the smarmy self serving way that you both came/come across on TV. I and a lot of others thought that what you did by overtly publicising and profitting from your experiences was not on and it was not appropriate, bearing in mind the number of guy's who lost their lives during the war (and yes I know that you donated a little of your profits to service charities).
Your unfortunate incaceration was clearly not something that most people could come to terms with and I was delighted when you and the rest of the POW's were released.
Notwithstanding that, books are things you write towards the end of your time and not when you have only been in a war for one sortie.......... it's not what true heroes do and there's an end to it.
3P
aka Gedgie
aka Jerry Gegg
Sqn Ldr RAF (Retd)
Hello Jerry - I'm afraid I don't know you, nor to my knowledge have we ever met, so I'm afraid I can't make any assessments as to your character or aviation abilities.
Of course, you are entitled to your opinion about me, regardless of your lack of knowledge. When one puts one's head above the media parapet, you expect to take a few pot shots!
You are correct to say that JP and I never got around to releasing any ordinance - not a huge new story as I wrote about it 17 years ago - and as I have said on countless occasions, my feeling is that it was probably my fault. But as you say, many of us make mistakes so I'm not too sure that it truly merits abuse like: "the switch pigs f**k up monkey. Sue me if you dare you three chimps" . A curious turn of phrase to say the least!
You criticise me for speaking in public about my experiences, yet you have made some 170 posts on this public outlet, many about your own personal experiences, and some abusive about people I suspect you have little real knowledge of. Your profile suggests you enjoy "Keeping up to date with the RAF" and "enjoying your retirement" - you seem to have a most curious way of doing both.
You are at pains to condemn me for writing about my experiences - well, again you are entitled to your opinions, however wide of the mark. I have now written 11 books, subjects ranging from WW2 to the present day operations, and as there are around 1,000,000 copies around, some might disagree with you.
Finally - "I and a lot of others thought that what you did by overtly publicising and profiting from your experiences was not on and it was not appropriate". That is an interesting point - you are totally correct, I did profit from writing a book about my experiences and also the next 10. I have also been paid for the journalistic and commentary work I do. Without blowing smoke up my own jacksie, I think I've worked fairly hard to achieve my limited success outside the RAF - in much the same way that many others have done, using the experiences and skills they learned in the military.
I guess we will never agree, and that's truly fine as far as I'm concerned - I will however thank you for coming out from behind the dubious cloak of pprune anonymity which many other people use for their cowardly attacks.
best wishes to you and yours,
John Nichol
Of course, you are entitled to your opinion about me, regardless of your lack of knowledge. When one puts one's head above the media parapet, you expect to take a few pot shots!
You are correct to say that JP and I never got around to releasing any ordinance - not a huge new story as I wrote about it 17 years ago - and as I have said on countless occasions, my feeling is that it was probably my fault. But as you say, many of us make mistakes so I'm not too sure that it truly merits abuse like: "the switch pigs f**k up monkey. Sue me if you dare you three chimps" . A curious turn of phrase to say the least!
You criticise me for speaking in public about my experiences, yet you have made some 170 posts on this public outlet, many about your own personal experiences, and some abusive about people I suspect you have little real knowledge of. Your profile suggests you enjoy "Keeping up to date with the RAF" and "enjoying your retirement" - you seem to have a most curious way of doing both.
You are at pains to condemn me for writing about my experiences - well, again you are entitled to your opinions, however wide of the mark. I have now written 11 books, subjects ranging from WW2 to the present day operations, and as there are around 1,000,000 copies around, some might disagree with you.
Finally - "I and a lot of others thought that what you did by overtly publicising and profiting from your experiences was not on and it was not appropriate". That is an interesting point - you are totally correct, I did profit from writing a book about my experiences and also the next 10. I have also been paid for the journalistic and commentary work I do. Without blowing smoke up my own jacksie, I think I've worked fairly hard to achieve my limited success outside the RAF - in much the same way that many others have done, using the experiences and skills they learned in the military.
I guess we will never agree, and that's truly fine as far as I'm concerned - I will however thank you for coming out from behind the dubious cloak of pprune anonymity which many other people use for their cowardly attacks.
best wishes to you and yours,
John Nichol
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JN,
Having been publically aired and responded to, I have removed my comments and apologise to John Nichol.
Now I am moving on.
Regards
Foldie
WWW,
What an excellent suggestion. Time to move on before any more blood is spilled on the carpet.
Having been publically aired and responded to, I have removed my comments and apologise to John Nichol.
Now I am moving on.
Regards
Foldie
WWW,
Shall we draw this thread to a close now?
Last edited by foldingwings; 25th Mar 2009 at 09:15.
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Thank you all for reinforcing my opinion that the RAF are, on the whole, a shamefull backstabbing green eyed bunch of w@nkers that you wouldn't want to watch your back in a pub let alone a war.
Rights or wrongs of Pablo etc, the place to sort this cr@p out is in the mess at the time, not in a public kangaroo court like this when you have the victims at a disadvantage.
Shame on the lot of you.
Rights or wrongs of Pablo etc, the place to sort this cr@p out is in the mess at the time, not in a public kangaroo court like this when you have the victims at a disadvantage.
Shame on the lot of you.
Hello to you too Dave - now I do seem to remember your name - was it from Laarbruch? Good of you too, to come out from throwing jibes from the shadows.
I realise you wish to move on, but I think it's worth finishing with a couple of points, so....
1. . You say - "However, when I say "Don't think he ever made it above pairs lead!" by the use of the very word 'think' that in itself suggests doubt in my own mind and therefore not a statement of fact so: inaccurate - Yes, factually - Not off my pen." So why on earth say it? It sounds remarkably like the act of a bully who gets a warm and fuzzy feeling by being spitefull to someone. As I say, each to their own...but it does say an awful lot about a chap he gets off on being mean to someone just to cause a bit of grief and debate.
2. You say - "Firstly, I cannot place in print occasions like you suggest but I did watch a number of Air Show programmes that you hosted on Discovery Wings in which I recall that you were repeatedly referred to as a pilot - so, IMMSMC, it would seem that you didn't correct them between shoots or before distribution!"
Simply untrue Dave, and sad that you can't admit you are wrong or prove your point (a legacy of the Bucc force? Just kidding of course) - but please feel free to prove me wrong and I for one, will keep my promise.
3. You say - "Thirdly, as a QWI for over 30 years of my service career with much of it on Tornado, I suspect that I could but frankly, life's too short!". I am presuming you are refering to your inane allegation that I " was responsible for being shot down (he screwed up)"
That is truly cowardly of you Dave, and not what I'd expect from an officer of your standing. You make a truly serious allegation about my personal conduct and then don't have the courage to justify it. That is so very sad. Again, each to their own of course - but your life is not too short to spend seemingly endless hours insulting people.
4. You say - "Anyway, this thread isn't about you" - I couldn't agree with you more Dave, but it was you and the other fella who brought my name up with your previously anonymous jibes.
5. You say - "recently I have felt inclined to let off steam wrt those self-serving, arrogant, egotistical and self-indulgent members of the Tornado force who, in my experience and opinion, were not the sharpest tacks in the box but seem to have pulled the wool over everybody's eyes with their unashamed self-promotion". - For the purposes of our debate, I'm going to presume I'm included in this description. I make the point again, that you and some others seem to have missed the rather joyous contadiction of crticising others for speaking in public by proclaiming your own views and comments (many factualy incorrect) on a public website.
Finally, you say "Now I am moving on" - fair enough, but a bit of a shame you can't stand up and justify your actions.
Again, best wishes to you and yours,
John
I realise you wish to move on, but I think it's worth finishing with a couple of points, so....
1. . You say - "However, when I say "Don't think he ever made it above pairs lead!" by the use of the very word 'think' that in itself suggests doubt in my own mind and therefore not a statement of fact so: inaccurate - Yes, factually - Not off my pen." So why on earth say it? It sounds remarkably like the act of a bully who gets a warm and fuzzy feeling by being spitefull to someone. As I say, each to their own...but it does say an awful lot about a chap he gets off on being mean to someone just to cause a bit of grief and debate.
2. You say - "Firstly, I cannot place in print occasions like you suggest but I did watch a number of Air Show programmes that you hosted on Discovery Wings in which I recall that you were repeatedly referred to as a pilot - so, IMMSMC, it would seem that you didn't correct them between shoots or before distribution!"
Simply untrue Dave, and sad that you can't admit you are wrong or prove your point (a legacy of the Bucc force? Just kidding of course) - but please feel free to prove me wrong and I for one, will keep my promise.
3. You say - "Thirdly, as a QWI for over 30 years of my service career with much of it on Tornado, I suspect that I could but frankly, life's too short!". I am presuming you are refering to your inane allegation that I " was responsible for being shot down (he screwed up)"
That is truly cowardly of you Dave, and not what I'd expect from an officer of your standing. You make a truly serious allegation about my personal conduct and then don't have the courage to justify it. That is so very sad. Again, each to their own of course - but your life is not too short to spend seemingly endless hours insulting people.
4. You say - "Anyway, this thread isn't about you" - I couldn't agree with you more Dave, but it was you and the other fella who brought my name up with your previously anonymous jibes.
5. You say - "recently I have felt inclined to let off steam wrt those self-serving, arrogant, egotistical and self-indulgent members of the Tornado force who, in my experience and opinion, were not the sharpest tacks in the box but seem to have pulled the wool over everybody's eyes with their unashamed self-promotion". - For the purposes of our debate, I'm going to presume I'm included in this description. I make the point again, that you and some others seem to have missed the rather joyous contadiction of crticising others for speaking in public by proclaiming your own views and comments (many factualy incorrect) on a public website.
Finally, you say "Now I am moving on" - fair enough, but a bit of a shame you can't stand up and justify your actions.
Again, best wishes to you and yours,
John
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Tourist: I couldn't agree more. This content of this thread is shameful in the extreme and unworthy of the Service which you lot profess to hold in such high regard. Stop it now.
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As an outsider(=taxpayer) reading this I'm inclined to agree with "tourist".
Out of interest given the interpersonal animosity/ egos etc (by the way you're not alone it's the same in the medical profession on occasions): have there been any cases of or suspicions of "fragging" in the RAF.
TIM
Out of interest given the interpersonal animosity/ egos etc (by the way you're not alone it's the same in the medical profession on occasions): have there been any cases of or suspicions of "fragging" in the RAF.
TIM
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Got to agree with the previous posters, whatever I personally think of Pablo (whom I have met) and JN (whom I have also met v.briefly) I think it is pretty poor form to attack them with such vitriol here, especially the personal attacks from retired senior officers who should know better.
I don't wish to be a sanctimonious tosspot, but some of the stuff on here is petty, puerile and frankly beyond the pale.
I don't hold shy of venturing opinion on here under this handle (and a previous truth be told) but surely Jerry and Dave, you do yourselves no favours!
John, for what it's worth from a serving officer, I have never heard anyone in any crewroom or mess denigrate your right to make a living off the back of your terrible experiences. They (or I
) might or might not like what you say, or your books but they don't hold any grudge with how you make your living. If it wasn't you it would be someone else with an equally valid or invalid view depending on your point of view.
From a serving guy who has frequently had to consider the 'what if' of the aftermath of capture and still does, I do not wish what you suffered on my worst enemy. I suggest the retired perspective may remove this clarity of thought!
I stand by my opinion of Pablo; he's carried too much military into a civilian cockpit. Change or die...
I don't wish to be a sanctimonious tosspot, but some of the stuff on here is petty, puerile and frankly beyond the pale.
I don't hold shy of venturing opinion on here under this handle (and a previous truth be told) but surely Jerry and Dave, you do yourselves no favours!
John, for what it's worth from a serving officer, I have never heard anyone in any crewroom or mess denigrate your right to make a living off the back of your terrible experiences. They (or I
) might or might not like what you say, or your books but they don't hold any grudge with how you make your living. If it wasn't you it would be someone else with an equally valid or invalid view depending on your point of view.From a serving guy who has frequently had to consider the 'what if' of the aftermath of capture and still does, I do not wish what you suffered on my worst enemy. I suggest the retired perspective may remove this clarity of thought!
I stand by my opinion of Pablo; he's carried too much military into a civilian cockpit. Change or die...
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Gents
As an airline pilot I wandered into this thread to see how the military are discussing the PM unfair dismissal. Personally I felt that he did not endanger his aircraft by allowing someone onto the flight deck but his actions were inappropriate and unjustified, especially for someone on a final warning.
I was disappointed to see the level of vitriolic mean-spirited back-stabbing against not only him but also JN. I sympathise JN that you should have to defend yourself on this forum. On the other side of the coin the VC10 pilots we went drinking with in Bahrain just pre 911 were a great team and very impressive.( I've since tried the same chat up lines on some of our girls but for me it just didn't work....)
As an airline pilot I wandered into this thread to see how the military are discussing the PM unfair dismissal. Personally I felt that he did not endanger his aircraft by allowing someone onto the flight deck but his actions were inappropriate and unjustified, especially for someone on a final warning.
I was disappointed to see the level of vitriolic mean-spirited back-stabbing against not only him but also JN. I sympathise JN that you should have to defend yourself on this forum. On the other side of the coin the VC10 pilots we went drinking with in Bahrain just pre 911 were a great team and very impressive.( I've since tried the same chat up lines on some of our girls but for me it just didn't work....)
After reading all this from serving officers I feel very saddened that personal standards have sunk so low. I am glad that I have done my 25 years and moved on. I may have taken a dislike to guys while in the service but never did I speak in such terms! Disgraceful and I think most of you should be ashamed of yourselves.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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Suicide Note!
flap62,
Despite your enthusiasm for a crewroom brawl I for one will not support your request.
Having been involved from the outset of these hostilities I now wish to publically apologise to John Nichol and Pablo, if he is listening, for airing my private thoughts in public. I regret that, following what started out as an idle observation about Pablo's new role in life, I allowed myself to be drawn into a deeper feud that resulted in a number of people being hurt and others honourably outing themselves on this thread.
I apologise to all those that I might have offended in the course of these exchanges and will now do the honourable thing by withdrawing to my chamber, removing the adverse comments that I posted previously and falling on my sword.
Foldie
Despite your enthusiasm for a crewroom brawl I for one will not support your request.
Having been involved from the outset of these hostilities I now wish to publically apologise to John Nichol and Pablo, if he is listening, for airing my private thoughts in public. I regret that, following what started out as an idle observation about Pablo's new role in life, I allowed myself to be drawn into a deeper feud that resulted in a number of people being hurt and others honourably outing themselves on this thread.
I apologise to all those that I might have offended in the course of these exchanges and will now do the honourable thing by withdrawing to my chamber, removing the adverse comments that I posted previously and falling on my sword.
Foldie
If PM is reading these posts and finding them unpleasant, then I would suggest that he post here to correct those individuals who have seen fit to use this forum to conduct a drive-by-shooting on his character.
I think that cool, level-headed responses from him would quickly reveal his detractors for what they are: they certainly have for JN, IMO.
I think that cool, level-headed responses from him would quickly reveal his detractors for what they are: they certainly have for JN, IMO.