Nimrods for Indian Ocean Piracy Patrol ?
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Nimrods for Indian Ocean Piracy Patrol ?
Whilst reading Navy News last week about the busy and extensively stretched task of ship anti-piracy patrols in the Indian Ocean, it occurred to me that maybe the RAF could base some Nimrods out of Salalah Oman and help the multi-national force with some airborne patrolling ? This seems like a perfect opportunity for the RAF to show some maritime initiative after the recent RAF/RN Harrier row, and lets face it, the kipper fleet aint exactly run off its feet (or is that flippers) in Kinloss is it ?
I know the decision is made in Whitehall, but maybe someone could at least make the suggestion. A warm beach in Oman must be a nicer option than the Moray Firth in February surely ?
I know the decision is made in Whitehall, but maybe someone could at least make the suggestion. A warm beach in Oman must be a nicer option than the Moray Firth in February surely ?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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Anti-piracy jolly
Pontius N,
No need to send a full CVS, just send a few Seajets with their radar & guns & they could operate from most platforms ...hang on...bugger !
So if sending supposedly rare GR7/9's, presumably with rocket pods, there really might be a need for Nimrod or similar ?
What a surprise, the words, 'economies' & 'false' spring to mind, but you would be a lot better placed to judge that than me...
No need to send a full CVS, just send a few Seajets with their radar & guns & they could operate from most platforms ...hang on...bugger !
So if sending supposedly rare GR7/9's, presumably with rocket pods, there really might be a need for Nimrod or similar ?
What a surprise, the words, 'economies' & 'false' spring to mind, but you would be a lot better placed to judge that than me...
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hmm
hmmm
Bay class fitted properly for aviation support. ASAC Seaking - 2 Lynx, and 4 of these in the dock...
BBC NEWS | England | Marines show off gunboats
Bay class fitted properly for aviation support. ASAC Seaking - 2 Lynx, and 4 of these in the dock...
BBC NEWS | England | Marines show off gunboats
.I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Serious question for once.
Why do we 'punch above our weight' and have forces over sea, buy carriers, and patrol the oceans of the world? The given answer is we are a trading nation dependent on the sea for trade. We must protect our interests overseas and our SLOC.
But ........
with what? and can we afford it?
It is patently obvious that we either cannot afford the resources or we do not wish to afford the resources. Two CVS and 12 Nimrod are in no way capable of force projection over our SLOC. They may have limited capability in one theatre and be wholly remote from a second.
The defence theory that we will only operate in conjunction with our allies when so many of our allies chose to limit their interventions is clearly flawed.
long past the time when we should have cut our cloth better.
Why do we 'punch above our weight' and have forces over sea, buy carriers, and patrol the oceans of the world? The given answer is we are a trading nation dependent on the sea for trade. We must protect our interests overseas and our SLOC.
But ........
with what? and can we afford it?
It is patently obvious that we either cannot afford the resources or we do not wish to afford the resources. Two CVS and 12 Nimrod are in no way capable of force projection over our SLOC. They may have limited capability in one theatre and be wholly remote from a second.
The defence theory that we will only operate in conjunction with our allies when so many of our allies chose to limit their interventions is clearly flawed.
long past the time when we should have cut our cloth better.
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Originally Posted by hulahoop7
Bay class fitted properly for aviation support.
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Pontious
We may have 12 nimrods on paper but we by no means have 12 available for tasking. Remove 4 for major, 4 for second line maintenance (EQ!!) and then take the obligatory 1 for national tasking in the UK, 1 in sunnier climates, 1/2 to keep crews trained up in the UK. You are absolutely right we are punching way above our weight. When will the UK public wake up and smell the coffee and realise that HMG are telling blatant lies about our capabilities.
Yes we may have MRA4 just around the corner but when has a new aircraft ever replaced the old straight away, it will be a good few years before the new is ever as capable as the old. That is assuming we ever manage to operate or fight the aircraft properly with the kit it deserves.
Most of the contributors here are correct, we should be able to provide a front line long range maritime patrol aircraft to help out in the fight against piracy but the truth of the matter is we are as a nation totally overstretched and we cannot cover the basic tasks. The defence budget has been cut to the bone and beyond and we are now unable to protect our interests fully without the use of smoke and mirrors to make it look as though we are able to cope.
Unfortunately, the cynic in me believes that we will only pull out of this decent into the mire when we end up in deep dwang much like the 1940's. History does have a tendency to repeat itself as the Air Power/Force Development Gurus keep telling us. Lets hope there is some sort of economy left that is able to buy some kit when we really need it.
We may have 12 nimrods on paper but we by no means have 12 available for tasking. Remove 4 for major, 4 for second line maintenance (EQ!!) and then take the obligatory 1 for national tasking in the UK, 1 in sunnier climates, 1/2 to keep crews trained up in the UK. You are absolutely right we are punching way above our weight. When will the UK public wake up and smell the coffee and realise that HMG are telling blatant lies about our capabilities.
Yes we may have MRA4 just around the corner but when has a new aircraft ever replaced the old straight away, it will be a good few years before the new is ever as capable as the old. That is assuming we ever manage to operate or fight the aircraft properly with the kit it deserves.
Most of the contributors here are correct, we should be able to provide a front line long range maritime patrol aircraft to help out in the fight against piracy but the truth of the matter is we are as a nation totally overstretched and we cannot cover the basic tasks. The defence budget has been cut to the bone and beyond and we are now unable to protect our interests fully without the use of smoke and mirrors to make it look as though we are able to cope.
Unfortunately, the cynic in me believes that we will only pull out of this decent into the mire when we end up in deep dwang much like the 1940's. History does have a tendency to repeat itself as the Air Power/Force Development Gurus keep telling us. Lets hope there is some sort of economy left that is able to buy some kit when we really need it.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Nav Attacking, I was not referring to the Mk 2 but alluding to the future. But either way 9 or 12 mk 4 and 2 CVS will never be a one-time reality. realistically, as you say, 6 Nimrod and one CVS and . . .
oh well, why bother
oh well, why bother
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Biggus, indeed, bit like lottery balls, the numbers keep changing.
While the Nimrod might be the best ASW aircraft in the world and have the best chance of catching the most elusive submarine, a target rich environment is only good if you have enough hunters to cover the ground.
Chuck in a relatively low-tech role and you need lots of eyes in the sky, eyes we haven't got.
We once 'swept' about 130,000 sq miles of the India Ocean in 4 hours. Two Nimrods then swept the same area in 12 aircraft hours and IDd the only 3 vessels we had found - two were yachts.
We either up the ante or get out of the game.
While the Nimrod might be the best ASW aircraft in the world and have the best chance of catching the most elusive submarine, a target rich environment is only good if you have enough hunters to cover the ground.
Chuck in a relatively low-tech role and you need lots of eyes in the sky, eyes we haven't got.
We once 'swept' about 130,000 sq miles of the India Ocean in 4 hours. Two Nimrods then swept the same area in 12 aircraft hours and IDd the only 3 vessels we had found - two were yachts.
We either up the ante or get out of the game.
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He he
Tourist
I have never flown on a Merlin so it cannot be claimed sorry
WAFUs
But you did give me a good laugh, tell me what you want found and where I will tell you what I need to do it, throw in a grey boat for fly bys and we are laughing.
I only work military solutions not some silly PC politic restrictive ROE bollox of course
.
Charlie sends
I have never flown on a Merlin so it cannot be claimed sorry
WAFUsBut you did give me a good laugh, tell me what you want found and where I will tell you what I need to do it, throw in a grey boat for fly bys and we are laughing.
I only work military solutions not some silly PC politic restrictive ROE bollox of course
.Charlie sends
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Tourist,
A serious response - true a helo in the dip may be superior to a jet with its a^se on fire but it does not cover the ground so well.
How long does it take a Merlin, or two, to drop a barrier 3-4 hours ahead of the force?
A helio might be more at risk from a MANPAD too; ok, that converts to a certsub and a cold datum
A serious response - true a helo in the dip may be superior to a jet with its a^se on fire but it does not cover the ground so well.
How long does it take a Merlin, or two, to drop a barrier 3-4 hours ahead of the force?
A helio might be more at risk from a MANPAD too; ok, that converts to a certsub and a cold datum
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PN
Manpad unlikely in the centre of the Atlantic, though I grant you the dastardly Boche have developed and sold sub launched SAMs. I would think the likelyhood of the Nimrod going unservicable and it taking 3 hrs for the next one to arrive thus leaving a gap is higher than the likelyhood of a SAM shooting down a Merlin fitted with a DAS. Also, there is always going to be more than one Merlin.
We used to maintain a barrier ahead of the fleet with SK6, and the Merlin is a lot more capable
Manpad unlikely in the centre of the Atlantic, though I grant you the dastardly Boche have developed and sold sub launched SAMs. I would think the likelyhood of the Nimrod going unservicable and it taking 3 hrs for the next one to arrive thus leaving a gap is higher than the likelyhood of a SAM shooting down a Merlin fitted with a DAS. Also, there is always going to be more than one Merlin.
We used to maintain a barrier ahead of the fleet with SK6, and the Merlin is a lot more capable