New build OV-10 Bronco's
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: England
Posts: 908
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
New build OV-10 Bronco's
An article from Flight Daily news........
Boeing considers restarting OV-10 production after 23-year hiatus
Boeing considers restarting OV-10 production after 23-year hiatus
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 1,771
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I suppose it might make a natural progression for the newly fledged Iraqi air force, but the last time that was suggested here, people who ought to know reckoned it would be shot out of the sky.
Funnily enough British Aerospace came up with the 'Small Agile Battlefield Aircraft, SABA, proposal around the late 1980's.
That was a relatively powerful pusher turboprop job, with a high-tech guided gun turret under the chin.
Whether it was a serious proposal, or a smoke-screen as a sop to Kingston / Dunsfold having the very exportable Hawk's production lines taken to Warton to keep it afloat, is another matter.
New-build A-10's with all the whistles & bells might be more useful, at least to the USAF, I'd think, and cheaper than a whole new programme unless they want something really light & vulnerable ?
As no defensive aids that I know of will fend off RPG's & AAA, ( and even Colombia has, I believe, a snag with the bad guys being well armed with G-A weapons ), can't see much hope for the Bronco ?...
Funnily enough British Aerospace came up with the 'Small Agile Battlefield Aircraft, SABA, proposal around the late 1980's.
That was a relatively powerful pusher turboprop job, with a high-tech guided gun turret under the chin.
Whether it was a serious proposal, or a smoke-screen as a sop to Kingston / Dunsfold having the very exportable Hawk's production lines taken to Warton to keep it afloat, is another matter.
New-build A-10's with all the whistles & bells might be more useful, at least to the USAF, I'd think, and cheaper than a whole new programme unless they want something really light & vulnerable ?
As no defensive aids that I know of will fend off RPG's & AAA, ( and even Colombia has, I believe, a snag with the bad guys being well armed with G-A weapons ), can't see much hope for the Bronco ?...
Last edited by Double Zero; 4th Feb 2009 at 00:27.
Double Zero,
The OV-10's vulnerability depends upon what role it would fulifill. A manned sensor platform would happily work above the RPG/Small Arms threat, and a modern MWS/CMDS (coupled with a relatively low IR signature) mitigate somewhat the MANPAD threat. If the plan is to do low-level RW escort/FAC/CAS then, yes, the threat is higher. For intra theatre comms / light cargo role it would do the job between fixed sites quicker and cheaper than a RW platform.
The OV-10s biggest problem is that it's not a jet...and many people cannot get past that fact, much the same as the A10 has always suffered because it can't go supersonic...
As a low cost platform in a low tech war, a warmed-over OV-10 could make a lot of sense. The final decision will no doubt revolve around Congressional districts.
The OV-10's vulnerability depends upon what role it would fulifill. A manned sensor platform would happily work above the RPG/Small Arms threat, and a modern MWS/CMDS (coupled with a relatively low IR signature) mitigate somewhat the MANPAD threat. If the plan is to do low-level RW escort/FAC/CAS then, yes, the threat is higher. For intra theatre comms / light cargo role it would do the job between fixed sites quicker and cheaper than a RW platform.
The OV-10s biggest problem is that it's not a jet...and many people cannot get past that fact, much the same as the A10 has always suffered because it can't go supersonic...
As a low cost platform in a low tech war, a warmed-over OV-10 could make a lot of sense. The final decision will no doubt revolve around Congressional districts.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: bored
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Those that weren't destroyed by D-Sqn are still in service with the Fuerza Aerea Argentina and with Uruguayan Air Force, in counter-insurgency role. I expect you could buy a squadron of them from either country, together with stacks of spare parts, for the cost of half a Typhoon. If the MOD needs a Spanish-speaking Arthur-Daley wannabe to go and buy them on the cheap send me PM. I'll even give back their picture I borrowed from FAA HQ in 1986 if they wish!
Last edited by CirrusF; 3rd Feb 2009 at 20:21.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,754
Received 2,738 Likes
on
1,166 Posts
Never fear we Brits to have a cunning plan LOL 
Petition to: Resurrect the TSR2 Strike Bomber. | Number10.gov.uk
Petition to: Resurrect the TSR2 Strike Bomber. | Number10.gov.uk
The OV-10s biggest problem is that it's not a jet...and many people cannot get past that fact, much the same as the A10 has always suffered because it can't go supersonic
As no defensive aids that I know of will fend off RPG's & AAA
All in all, I think there is a quite sizeable market for a Bronco or similar platform.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: bored
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Super-Tucano already filling the niche.
Chile’s Air Force Buys Super Tucanos
Argentina FAA probably going to buy them too to replace Pucará. Hence we could get Pucará really cheap on a UOR lol!
Chile’s Air Force Buys Super Tucanos
Argentina FAA probably going to buy them too to replace Pucará. Hence we could get Pucará really cheap on a UOR lol!
Last time I saw an OV-10 was at a certain USAF base in Florida where they were being prepared for long-range anti-drug operations on behalf of the US State Department....
Using herbicide, rather than weapons.
Using herbicide, rather than weapons.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Waiting to return to the Loire.
Age: 54
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A shrewd move
IIRC wasn't there a version of the Bronco which had a turret mounted gun / cannon?
I think that with some modern avionics & sensors, uprated engines and a defensive suite added to a decent turretted cannon and then rig it for CVR-7's and / or a couple of Hellfires (well...they do hang them off UAVs) for long range punch and bunker-busting it could be a hell of a good option.
I think that with some modern avionics & sensors, uprated engines and a defensive suite added to a decent turretted cannon and then rig it for CVR-7's and / or a couple of Hellfires (well...they do hang them off UAVs) for long range punch and bunker-busting it could be a hell of a good option.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Well, Lincolnshire
Age: 69
Posts: 1,101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Someone on here suggested fitting A-G kit to the shed loads of Tucano's languishing in storage here in the UK.
Serious questions.
a. Is it feasible?
b. Can the Tucano do 'hot and high'?
Oh, that 'someone' was me.
I think it can be done, but I'd like the experts' opinions before I make a bigger fool of myself with an very annoying ex-JP/Strikemaster 'armchair Air Marshal' who pontificates in my local!
Who's probably reading this and, hopefully, will take a subtle hint.
Serious questions.
a. Is it feasible?
b. Can the Tucano do 'hot and high'?
Oh, that 'someone' was me.
I think it can be done, but I'd like the experts' opinions before I make a bigger fool of myself with an very annoying ex-JP/Strikemaster 'armchair Air Marshal' who pontificates in my local!
Who's probably reading this and, hopefully, will take a subtle hint.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 1,771
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know a little ( emphasise little ) about G-A detection systems of various types, but what with AAA beyond 'small arms', + as you say Manpads...don't recall fast, jamming Tornados doing too well against unguided stuff; though they of course were so low a lobbed brick might have been a problem !
What with all the various options available, from Pilatus to Appache to A-10, not to mention UAV R/W stuff supposedly in the pipeline, can't really see a need for the Bronco.
How does endurance compare to say, the Pilatus ? Of course 2 engines is always a nice touch.
As I recall, one of the objectors to the idea last time was an ex-Bronco pilot...
Shame, as I do actually quite fancy the aircraft, apart from the prop's next to the cockpit !
What with all the various options available, from Pilatus to Appache to A-10, not to mention UAV R/W stuff supposedly in the pipeline, can't really see a need for the Bronco.
How does endurance compare to say, the Pilatus ? Of course 2 engines is always a nice touch.
As I recall, one of the objectors to the idea last time was an ex-Bronco pilot...
Shame, as I do actually quite fancy the aircraft, apart from the prop's next to the cockpit !
Melchett,
I've got no problems with the OV-10's speed - my comment was directed at the FJ-Centric hierarchies who run most Western airforces, and who continually plan to fight the war they want to fight (shuffling F-22s and Typhoons against a hypothetical enemy in 2020) than adjusting doctrine, procurement and priorities to fight the war(s) we are fighting. The OV-10 simply isn't "punchy", and the USAF has been trying to kill-off the A-10 to buy more F16s for ages, only recently, reluctantly, funding an upgrade. For an area the size of the current AoR the OV-10's speed isn't really an issue.
In the UK we hear rumours of attempts to kill of the Harrier. Apart from removing a high pitched whining noise from the front line (and their aircraft..
) it threatens the only dedicated CAS aircraft we currently field.
Taxydual, I believe we ticked the "delete all hardpoints and wiring" option when we bought the Tucanos and it is prohibitively expensive to retrofit. A DESO chap I once spoke to moaned about this saying that we could sell them all in an instant if they were armed as they have useful extra grunt over the PT6 version.
Double Zero, if the Tally-Tubbies start lighting up fire control radars for AAA I'd guess that they'd get a visit from Mr HARM quite quickly...also large calibre weapons are hard to conceal and "shoot and scoot" with. A DSHKa is about as big as you'd want to try to move and hide - ask the IRA. I'm guessing that the Bronco would be much cheaper per unit cost than A10/AH64 and is already designed for the role. I'd also wager that the operating costs are far smaller. If we're in for the long haul then these costs are important.
I've got no problems with the OV-10's speed - my comment was directed at the FJ-Centric hierarchies who run most Western airforces, and who continually plan to fight the war they want to fight (shuffling F-22s and Typhoons against a hypothetical enemy in 2020) than adjusting doctrine, procurement and priorities to fight the war(s) we are fighting. The OV-10 simply isn't "punchy", and the USAF has been trying to kill-off the A-10 to buy more F16s for ages, only recently, reluctantly, funding an upgrade. For an area the size of the current AoR the OV-10's speed isn't really an issue.
In the UK we hear rumours of attempts to kill of the Harrier. Apart from removing a high pitched whining noise from the front line (and their aircraft..
) it threatens the only dedicated CAS aircraft we currently field.Taxydual, I believe we ticked the "delete all hardpoints and wiring" option when we bought the Tucanos and it is prohibitively expensive to retrofit. A DESO chap I once spoke to moaned about this saying that we could sell them all in an instant if they were armed as they have useful extra grunt over the PT6 version.
Double Zero, if the Tally-Tubbies start lighting up fire control radars for AAA I'd guess that they'd get a visit from Mr HARM quite quickly...also large calibre weapons are hard to conceal and "shoot and scoot" with. A DSHKa is about as big as you'd want to try to move and hide - ask the IRA. I'm guessing that the Bronco would be much cheaper per unit cost than A10/AH64 and is already designed for the role. I'd also wager that the operating costs are far smaller. If we're in for the long haul then these costs are important.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: by the Great Salt Lake, USA
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Finnpog...
The U.S. Marine Corps OV-10 Night Observation Gunship (NOGS) program modified four OV-10As to include a turreted forward-looking infrared (FLIR) sensor and turreted M197 20 mm gun slaved to the FLIR aimpoint. NOGS succeeded in Vietnam, but funds to convert more aircraft were not approved. NOGS evolved into the NOS OV-10D, which included a laser designator, but no added gun... just the 4 x 7.62mm machine guns mounted in the stub-wing-roots.
Each of the Marine Corps' two observation squadrons had 18 aircraft, nine OV-10As and nine OV-10Ds night observation aircraft.
The OV-10 was finally phased out of the Marine Corps in 1995, and the decision to decommission the aircraft was in large part due to two USMC Broncos being shot down during Operation Desert Storm due to a lack of effective infrared countermeasures equipment.
OV-10 NOGS:
USMC OV-10D aboard USS Saratoga CV-60 for trials 1985:
The U.S. Marine Corps OV-10 Night Observation Gunship (NOGS) program modified four OV-10As to include a turreted forward-looking infrared (FLIR) sensor and turreted M197 20 mm gun slaved to the FLIR aimpoint. NOGS succeeded in Vietnam, but funds to convert more aircraft were not approved. NOGS evolved into the NOS OV-10D, which included a laser designator, but no added gun... just the 4 x 7.62mm machine guns mounted in the stub-wing-roots.
Each of the Marine Corps' two observation squadrons had 18 aircraft, nine OV-10As and nine OV-10Ds night observation aircraft.
The OV-10 was finally phased out of the Marine Corps in 1995, and the decision to decommission the aircraft was in large part due to two USMC Broncos being shot down during Operation Desert Storm due to a lack of effective infrared countermeasures equipment.
OV-10 NOGS:
USMC OV-10D aboard USS Saratoga CV-60 for trials 1985:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Planet Tharg
Posts: 2,472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shove an extra fuel tank up the rear, upgrade the wing mounted guns to .50 cal and fit a few rockets to hardpoints under the wing and you have a useful type with good loiter capability for the Somali problem. Cheap to run and able to patrol the coastline and offshore danger spots in daytime to give a heads up of suspicious activity to ships in the area to enable them to avoid it or change course for night transit. FLIR equipment will give them reasonable use at night. Adapt as needed for similar roles.
May be worth a PMC taking a look at that option operating from shore bases in neighbouring countries with helicopter backup.
May be worth a PMC taking a look at that option operating from shore bases in neighbouring countries with helicopter backup.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
California Dept. of Forestry and Fire Protection
CAL FIRE operates the type nowadays. Link to main page with links to specific aircraft type info, and photos.
CAL FIRE - Air Program
CAL FIRE - Air Program
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Various
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jackonico
I think you will find that the OV-1 was in fact the Mohawk. A recon aircraft which had an extremely limited weapons capability and was a somewhat problematic flier. Have a look through their serial number listing and see the inordinantly high losses due to mishaps.
On the other hand, the last OV-10 lost was frankly fighting where it shouldn't have been and outstayed its time there It had dodged numerous IR SAMs before they ran out of luck. I never understood why they were retired except that they weren't very sexy and didn't have a strong political backer.
OV-10Bronco.Net - Start Page
Given proper countermeasure and targeting system updates, the Skyraider may well be an answer to some current requirements - 4 x 20mm Cannons, 8000 lbs of ordnance and fuel for days. Even a few Mig kills to its credit.
A-1 Skyraider - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Official A-1 Skyraider Site
Infantry officers today would cheer at the opportunity for a support aircraft like that. Low, slow, heavily armored, heavily armed, with enough fuel to hang around a very long while.
I think you will find that the OV-1 was in fact the Mohawk. A recon aircraft which had an extremely limited weapons capability and was a somewhat problematic flier. Have a look through their serial number listing and see the inordinantly high losses due to mishaps.
On the other hand, the last OV-10 lost was frankly fighting where it shouldn't have been and outstayed its time there It had dodged numerous IR SAMs before they ran out of luck. I never understood why they were retired except that they weren't very sexy and didn't have a strong political backer.
OV-10Bronco.Net - Start Page
Given proper countermeasure and targeting system updates, the Skyraider may well be an answer to some current requirements - 4 x 20mm Cannons, 8000 lbs of ordnance and fuel for days. Even a few Mig kills to its credit.
A-1 Skyraider - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Official A-1 Skyraider Site
Infantry officers today would cheer at the opportunity for a support aircraft like that. Low, slow, heavily armored, heavily armed, with enough fuel to hang around a very long while.
