Does anyone know what happen to this guy after being grounded?
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I was a photographer for BAe ( looking back, it seems much like " I flew for the Fugher " ) !
When photographing instruments / displays which had a fault, to illustrate the snag people were moaning about, I always insisted that the control settings were realistic to the given situation.
When faced with the media on the odd day, it was very depressing and much like being thrown into a tankfull of Piranhas !
'Truth' was not even on their agengda.
When photographing instruments / displays which had a fault, to illustrate the snag people were moaning about, I always insisted that the control settings were realistic to the given situation.
When faced with the media on the odd day, it was very depressing and much like being thrown into a tankfull of Piranhas !
'Truth' was not even on their agengda.
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I think the standard of instruction shown in the short clip was pretty awful. However, I am sure that the edited version bears little resemblance to the unedited original. It is also worth remembering that RAF flying training in the early 80s also contained a heavy amount of selection as well as training. Students deliberately had pressure applied to them at all stages of training as the aircraft that were going on to eventually fly could quickly kill them if they were not able to cope with pressure and to think well ahead of the aircraft (turbines that took 5 seconds to spool up across the power range, aircraft that could not be recovered from certain aerodynamic configurations etc)
I remember it as a very stressful time in which we all lived with the thought that our dream could be taken away from us within 48 hours if we failed to perform (fail a flight that morning, re fly it and fail in the afternoon, chop ride next day).
Happy days......I think.
I remember it as a very stressful time in which we all lived with the thought that our dream could be taken away from us within 48 hours if we failed to perform (fail a flight that morning, re fly it and fail in the afternoon, chop ride next day).
Happy days......I think.
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I remember it as a very stressful time in which we all lived with the thought that our dream could be taken away from us within 48 hours if we failed to perform (fail a flight that morning, re fly it and fail in the afternoon, chop ride next day).
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The instructor seemed pretty standard issue to me. Every one talked down to one back then, teachers rozzers, bloomin' traffic wardens. Good lord Even the missus talked down to one then.
All I could think when I was being "instructed" was "Good grief, you really sound like my father!" Now he was a t*sser!
All I could think when I was being "instructed" was "Good grief, you really sound like my father!" Now he was a t*sser!
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Don't be ridiculous
"Hasn't changed mate! A good friend of mine was 1 flight away from being a front line Junglie pilot (after 3 years training and a shed load of money spent on his training by the tax payer) and within 2 days was chopped, no rethread nothing. He hadn't even picked up an Air Warning previously. People may bang on about drawing the line somewhere etc etc but sometimes I think the system is just bloody silly and lets everyone down."
I find that very, very hard to believe (to put it mildly!) Your good friend would not have got chopped without a full Air Warning process taking place - the investment in personnel is too great to just chop people in the manner you allude to.
I find that very, very hard to believe (to put it mildly!) Your good friend would not have got chopped without a full Air Warning process taking place - the investment in personnel is too great to just chop people in the manner you allude to.
Red On, Green On
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I too know of a soon-to-be Junglie driver who was chopped on his last trip but one. He was well-thought of, though, and is now operational on SAR, but the route he has taken is very unusual. Ab-initio SAR drivers are almost un-heard of in the RN.
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Not being ridiculous thanks.
misty bush,
I think you may have misunderstood. He had not received an Air Warning PREVIOUSLY, i.e at no stage prior to the 2 days in which he went from 0-3 to chopped, i.e nearly 3 years of training with zero air warnings and then 3 in 48 hours. Is that clearer?
He hadn't even picked up an Air Warning previously
Last edited by NickGooseBrady; 13th Jan 2009 at 20:14. Reason: keep trying to make it clearer for good ol'misty boy
When questioning the attitude of RAF QFIs past and present and the fear of the chop among students, let's not forget what we are training for. We operate in an environment where the price of error may be death, not necessarily just your own, and not even just those involved in the crash, but also those relying on your success to save them. I have in the past given the benefit of the doubt to a young pilot, then later had to offer comfort to his grieving parents after the accident. Subsequently, I have had no compunction in explaining to a student that I may be saving his life while denying his dream.
Regarding the conduct of TV production teams, I think back to my involvement in one long forgotten series. They had been offered a high level of support, so went on to abuse it fully. One episode involved a pilot stealing a Harrier after a training sortie at an east coast range. First, they wanted film of Sneb rockets hitting the target, with the camera looking up from the target. The first pilot (now also dead) put 2 full pods just short, giving spectacular results. But they decided that they wanted the rockets to hit the centre, sacrificing the camera, images from which would be captured remotely. So I took a second jet to Holbeach, and destroyed their kit with another 2 full, and expensive, pods. To complete the sequence, they needed better shots of the aircraft in the range pattern, but by the time we had the weather, they had moved on to Brawdy for another episode. So off I went to Wales to do both bits. The first brief was that they had been given a Sea King, so from this airborne platform, they wanted to film me passing by, approaching from the front quarter and approaching from the rear quarter. Neither the helicopter nor the ground would be seen. I queried what they would see different in the two approaching shots; they agreed that they would be the same, so one would do. I queried why it would look different from the Sea King rather than on the ground; it wouldn't, so we cancelled that bit. This reduced the sequence to me flying once past and once over a camera on the airfield.
Then we moved on to the next episode. This involved gun runners in an Islander. I was to intercept the Islander and use visual intercept signals to get it to land. So I had to fly alongside, waggle my wings in an obvious manner, then turn away to get them to follow. Aware that my wings would not produce much lift below 150 kts or so, I asked at what speed they intended to fly. 90 kts was the answer. How fast could they fly? 120 kts. So it turned into a fairly short sequence, with me formating partially jet-borne, a configuration in which "wing-waggling" tends to lead to a considerable loss of lift, while the reversal gets perilously close to a risky corner of the Harrier flight envelope (covered at length in another thread).
At the end of all that, I went home and made sure I was not around for any further request for help.
In my experience, a common factor of many aircraft accidents has been the camera filming the event.
Regarding the conduct of TV production teams, I think back to my involvement in one long forgotten series. They had been offered a high level of support, so went on to abuse it fully. One episode involved a pilot stealing a Harrier after a training sortie at an east coast range. First, they wanted film of Sneb rockets hitting the target, with the camera looking up from the target. The first pilot (now also dead) put 2 full pods just short, giving spectacular results. But they decided that they wanted the rockets to hit the centre, sacrificing the camera, images from which would be captured remotely. So I took a second jet to Holbeach, and destroyed their kit with another 2 full, and expensive, pods. To complete the sequence, they needed better shots of the aircraft in the range pattern, but by the time we had the weather, they had moved on to Brawdy for another episode. So off I went to Wales to do both bits. The first brief was that they had been given a Sea King, so from this airborne platform, they wanted to film me passing by, approaching from the front quarter and approaching from the rear quarter. Neither the helicopter nor the ground would be seen. I queried what they would see different in the two approaching shots; they agreed that they would be the same, so one would do. I queried why it would look different from the Sea King rather than on the ground; it wouldn't, so we cancelled that bit. This reduced the sequence to me flying once past and once over a camera on the airfield.
Then we moved on to the next episode. This involved gun runners in an Islander. I was to intercept the Islander and use visual intercept signals to get it to land. So I had to fly alongside, waggle my wings in an obvious manner, then turn away to get them to follow. Aware that my wings would not produce much lift below 150 kts or so, I asked at what speed they intended to fly. 90 kts was the answer. How fast could they fly? 120 kts. So it turned into a fairly short sequence, with me formating partially jet-borne, a configuration in which "wing-waggling" tends to lead to a considerable loss of lift, while the reversal gets perilously close to a risky corner of the Harrier flight envelope (covered at length in another thread).
At the end of all that, I went home and made sure I was not around for any further request for help.
In my experience, a common factor of many aircraft accidents has been the camera filming the event.
'Regarding the conduct of TV production teams, I think back to my involvement in one long forgotten series'
That would be 'Squadron' ? What a load of bilge that was.Good flying sequences though ...
That would be 'Squadron' ? What a load of bilge that was.Good flying sequences though ...
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Fighter Pilot BBC TV Series.....
I was recently invited by Gareth Stringer (Editor Global Avaition Resource) to write a book about my life, including my RAF Career.
I am going to tell the truth; there has been so much b******it spoken about the Series it's time to reveal the truth,OK?
A few FACTS first.
The BBC filmed a week at Biggin Hill and nobody was selected! So they came back and did it again.
The week they filmed, myself- Martin Oxborrow,and Robbie Low,Rhod Smart, Trevor Lewis, and Alastair Stewart., were there .John McCrea was not! John walked into a room at Octu Henlow set up to record someone else, they heard his story and thought Milkman Flies Jets would be good, so there it was !. I was the only one from the original week to gain their Wings.
Along the way, Trevor Lewis was chopped at Linton, as was Rhod Smart who re-mustered to become a Nav on 74 Sqn ( I believe). Alastair Stewart re-mustered to Nav didn'# like it and keft RAF. I didn't make it to Valley, but wentto Mets at Finningley, earned my WIngs, C130 Co Pilot/Captain 3000hrs Total. Med Discharged 97. Robbie Lowwas chopped at Valley, re-mustered Nav - Tornadoes ended up as Wg Cdr, now Flt Lt Reservist. John McCrea went to Buccaneers, CFS, QFi at Cranwell, Now at Barkston Heath as Reservist as is his Son!!!!
If you want to know more it'll be in the book ok.
The BBC book of the Series was a Best Selelr for 6 weeks, The series was adored byJoe Public (5 to 6 million an episode), hated by the Senior RAF chaps.
Colin Strong the Director failed Officer Training in Natrional Service and had an axe to grind and a chip on his shoulder.(Witness the Air Officer getting dressed and in the background are the Gentlemens' Urinals...)
Dont believe evrything you see on TV!! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/smile.gif
I am going to tell the truth; there has been so much b******it spoken about the Series it's time to reveal the truth,OK?
A few FACTS first.
The BBC filmed a week at Biggin Hill and nobody was selected! So they came back and did it again.
The week they filmed, myself- Martin Oxborrow,and Robbie Low,Rhod Smart, Trevor Lewis, and Alastair Stewart., were there .John McCrea was not! John walked into a room at Octu Henlow set up to record someone else, they heard his story and thought Milkman Flies Jets would be good, so there it was !. I was the only one from the original week to gain their Wings.
Along the way, Trevor Lewis was chopped at Linton, as was Rhod Smart who re-mustered to become a Nav on 74 Sqn ( I believe). Alastair Stewart re-mustered to Nav didn'# like it and keft RAF. I didn't make it to Valley, but wentto Mets at Finningley, earned my WIngs, C130 Co Pilot/Captain 3000hrs Total. Med Discharged 97. Robbie Lowwas chopped at Valley, re-mustered Nav - Tornadoes ended up as Wg Cdr, now Flt Lt Reservist. John McCrea went to Buccaneers, CFS, QFi at Cranwell, Now at Barkston Heath as Reservist as is his Son!!!!
If you want to know more it'll be in the book ok.
The BBC book of the Series was a Best Selelr for 6 weeks, The series was adored byJoe Public (5 to 6 million an episode), hated by the Senior RAF chaps.
Colin Strong the Director failed Officer Training in Natrional Service and had an axe to grind and a chip on his shoulder.(Witness the Air Officer getting dressed and in the background are the Gentlemens' Urinals...)
Dont believe evrything you see on TV!! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/smile.gif
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Does anyone know what happen to this guy after being grounded?
Could you be thinking of the 1973? film. Called something like 'Training the Phantom Pilot' it followed a chap from OASC to OCU. The 'pilot' had failed OCU / Advanced flying I think, it's along time ago! I can be seen on the film as a young Jnr Tech walking into Aero Med (hanger 2) at Church Fenton to do an EEG.The film was released as the B movie to Serpico, wached it at the ABC in Lincoln.
Last edited by WPW; 6th Mar 2013 at 10:04.
I've been in several documentaries on TV over the years, including "Top Guns", "Speed", "Fighter Squadron" and "Fighting the War". Only the book for "Top Guns" (written by an ex-SF chap in Op CORPORATE) and "Fighter Squadron" bore any resemblance to what actually happened!
Top Guns - book by Hugh McManners
Fighter Squadron - Primtime Video
So it is of little surprise that "Fighter Pilot" did not reflect reality. In fact, my time in J3/J5 at PJHQ allowed me to see what a bunch of lies the media feeds us each and every day - since 2003 I haven't bothered buying a newspaper unless I want to look at the 'for sale' section or if it contains my fish and chips!
LJ
Top Guns - book by Hugh McManners
Fighter Squadron - Primtime Video
So it is of little surprise that "Fighter Pilot" did not reflect reality. In fact, my time in J3/J5 at PJHQ allowed me to see what a bunch of lies the media feeds us each and every day - since 2003 I haven't bothered buying a newspaper unless I want to look at the 'for sale' section or if it contains my fish and chips!
LJ
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 6th Mar 2013 at 18:53.
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I was recently invited by Gareth Stringer (Editor Global Avaition Resource) to write a book about my life, including my RAF Career.
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Training standards
My experience of flying traing standards over 20 years 64/84 seems as varied as the above writers. My next 20 years as a civi pilot were much the same.
Throughout this time a single unchanged value. The media exist to write stories nothing more. They write stories that make headlines and appeal to the already formed ideas of their readers. Never expect fair treatment or the truth
I was asked to appear on that Street Doctor thingy at an airport and agreed because I have a lump of metal in my shoulder and wondered if would have to come out one day..
The organiser started by telling me to wear my hat while drinking coffee in an airport cafe, said no. The doctor arrives and they tell me not to stand up. Said I would always do that for a lady, "oh well we won't be able to use it then" end of broadcast
Throughout this time a single unchanged value. The media exist to write stories nothing more. They write stories that make headlines and appeal to the already formed ideas of their readers. Never expect fair treatment or the truth
I was asked to appear on that Street Doctor thingy at an airport and agreed because I have a lump of metal in my shoulder and wondered if would have to come out one day..
The organiser started by telling me to wear my hat while drinking coffee in an airport cafe, said no. The doctor arrives and they tell me not to stand up. Said I would always do that for a lady, "oh well we won't be able to use it then" end of broadcast
b15oxo. Thanks for the snippets on the series, cant wait for the book.
I for one never tire of watching my DVD of the series. I was in a Bulldog around the same time as it was being shown. The memories of being shouted at around the circuit are still with me.....
I for one never tire of watching my DVD of the series. I was in a Bulldog around the same time as it was being shown. The memories of being shouted at around the circuit are still with me.....
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As a member of a course slightly behind the "Fighter Pilot" studes (on a different FTS Squadron), we spent a bit of time with the director - Colin Strong - while he underwent some pilot training on his own account.
In order to give him a feel for what the studes were going through, he was put through as far as going solo on a JP3. I still remember the day at Elvington when he solo'ed and his delight at the achievement.
He certainly never came across as one with an axe to grind, though he clearly was not in the game of producing a recruitment film as their Airships might have wished.
As has been stated earlier, the public loved the series and the production team did a professional job of producing an entertainment programme which did the Sevice more good than harm. I flew with plenty of good instuctors - they had to be to get me through! There were some who could have been cuddlier, but the peacetime front line in the early 80s was a good deal more lethal than in later years, and there was not much room for sentiment when it came to screening out those who were unlikely to progress.
In order to give him a feel for what the studes were going through, he was put through as far as going solo on a JP3. I still remember the day at Elvington when he solo'ed and his delight at the achievement.
He certainly never came across as one with an axe to grind, though he clearly was not in the game of producing a recruitment film as their Airships might have wished.
As has been stated earlier, the public loved the series and the production team did a professional job of producing an entertainment programme which did the Sevice more good than harm. I flew with plenty of good instuctors - they had to be to get me through! There were some who could have been cuddlier, but the peacetime front line in the early 80s was a good deal more lethal than in later years, and there was not much room for sentiment when it came to screening out those who were unlikely to progress.