What Are The R.A.F. Regiment For?

[minigundiplomat]

Right,

it's Christmas and this will be my last post.

What are the RAF Regiment for?

That was the poster's question, and a perfectly valid one. It is only by constantly questioning and evaluating that we evolve as a society. The military should be no different.

Another thread highlights CAS's intention for the RAF to absorb the AAC and FAA. Ithink this is wrong, but welcome the debate.

All trades and branches need to question how they do things, and whether they could do them better. I may not like someone suggesting that crewmen could do things better, but I would welcome the debate, instead of stifling it.

There have been threads on disbanding the RAF, with lively debate from all three services. What goes around comes around.

The fact that members of a trade have died in pursuit of their duties should not be used to stifle debate, otherwise Aircrew would be in an unassailable position, and we know they are not, nor should they be.

I find it rather puzzling that people who have used this as a stick to beat any debate to death in this thread are willing to make statements such as

their own personal Loadmaster to carry all their badges

Quite a few Loadmasters have died of late, and many more NCA. However, there have been no cries of 'foul' from the aircrew trades, as they know it is immaterial to the debate.

It does display double standards though.

Finally, I did say in my first post that some were 'clinically brainless', and anyone at a secret Hampshire airbase can instantly think of a role model. I also said some were fantastic, again, anyone can think of a role model for that statement.

Differing experiences will produce differing opinions, all of which are equally valid. Expressing those opinions results in debate, which in turn assists the process of evolution.

You can post any reply you like to this post, but I won't read it as it's Christmas, and debate seems to have gone out of fashion here.

Al R - If you really have to have the last word, make it a positive one.

Merry Christmas to all, especially those in-theatre of all services and trades.

[StopStart]

Further to my last, I've just spotted Laarbruch72's post! Genius! Just back from Basra eh? Well done that man - I imagine you must be the first ever! If you can't handle a bit of gentle piss taking then I'm afraid it's time to hang your spurs old man.

Fingers crossed for the ole next approach into Baghdad though! Exciting stuff....

[Al R]

Cheers Shack,

I remember a recruiting ad for the Booties, which was made up of about 40 small boxes, each box with detail of a campaign in a given year since WW2 that they were involved in. There was one year blanked out, which said; '19 (whatever):we took the year off'. Very cool. Even getting to try and join the RM was a nightmare - at the time their recruiters were in a small office above the RN mob and to get to them you had to climb some stairs at the bottom of which was a bar that you had to do 15 pull ups on, before you were allowed the honour of even climbing the stairs. It took me about a month and when I did get into his office, he told me they were full.

Minigun,

You refer to what the OP posed, so address it and have the balls to stop pretending that your ignorance and arrogance was a moral statement about enshrining your right to free speech. In my career as shelf stacker, I got to see all manner of stupidity justified as FoS, which of course, is what the right to be a twonk in public ultimately is. And long may it continue - it makes identifying twonks easier by not driving them underground. And your attempt to be taken seriously at the end by talking about CAS and FAA, and evolving as a society made me smile - so perhaps I did overreact by taking you as seriously as I did. Apologies.

[glad rag]

I do hope that you are a man of your word......

Quote

"Right,

it's Christmas and this will be my last post."

[piran]

Having served in the RAF for over 30 years I have a profound and deep respect for this proud corps of guys known as the RAF Regiment. Brilliant on the RAFG Harrier Force and SH Force and unseen but did a fantastic job in Northern Ireland and well proven in recent combat on Ops TELIC and HERRICK. I have heard senior Army cdrs many times wish they has such well led and highly motivated forces. The RAF Regt do a great job defending us and our airfields and even while doing CCS at HQ Air I found the "Rocks" good value, with great banter to us "Guins" yet getting some really useful stuff over such as first aid (can be used anywhere) and military skills. Yet they recognised few of us were experts at skill-at-arms but with a little encouragement they could make us reasonably competent. Having served twice in Iraq I thank the RAF Regt for my excllent training; giving me the skills and confidence to defend myself and my comrades. Hats off to the excellent and brilliant RAF Regiment, long may this elite corps be proud to fight beside the rest of us in the RAF. We do appreciate what you do. God help us if we waited for the Army to do this role, we would still be waiting as the Army don't do airpower but bull**t!

[Jumping_Jack]

Piran

Spot on....

J_J

[The Burning Bush]

1/ Defending an airfield obviously requires deployment away from airfield (e.g. ground to air defence). Up to how far away does this deployment take place? Also this deployment and any replen will necessitate defending. Routes to provide replen will require defending. Position changes will also be needed. This seems to mean that the actual “airfield to defend” is not the airfield at all, but the airfield and much countryside.

2/ Are any materials that are required to be delivered to the station considered as assets that require defending? E.G. POL, food, munitions. If so, at what stage do they become defendable by that station? What about the depots where the materials are stored? Or even the vehicles that are used to deliver them.

3/ Any roads or rail tracks that are required for replen? I presume these must also be defended. To what depth?

4/ Do the R.A.F Regiment utilise any persons (other than R.A.F. Regiment members) at all to defend the boundaries and within the station? Do R.A.F. trades that participate in airfield defence (same as used to done in Tacevals) come under R.A.F. Regiment command and control?

5/ Some R.A.F. units are currently “defended” by Civilians, the army or MOD Plod; at what stage does this situation change, and how? Or do these units continue to operate/ integrate with the R.A.F Regiment in times of need? In fact do the R.A.F. Regiment get involved at all?

Lots of posts since the original questions, not sure if they've been answered yet though. I shall try.

1. - Distance depends on the ground, tac situation etc. Suffice to say that we aim to carry out the 'fight' away from the defended loc as much as possible. Too late when the en is at the wire. Can't defend routes, the areas too big, that's why we're getting hammered with IEDs. As far as we're concerned it's ALL about the countryside.

2. - OPSEC.

3. - Current AO's are airbridge.

4. - Yes.

5. - RAF Regt Sqns are not routinely used to protect UK airbases.

[Wrathmonk]

What are the Rocks for? To make sure this does not happen at a UK DOB/COB/MOB/JOB etc (including help covering the a55es of those in command!)

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Italian sentenced for Iraq lapse

[Big Unit Specialist]

Didn't the army do a really good job at defending airfields in Crete in WWII? - Oh no they didn't did they....... that's one of the many reasons the RAF Regt are doing the job now and will continue to do it for quite a while yet.

[NURSE]

They do a great job in supporting the operational airforce (they do prepare Airmen and women very well for deployment) but please could you get a proportion on things. You are like the pioneers of the RLC guarding high value logistic locations not at the spearhead like the Parachute Regiment.

[The Burning Bush]

Actually, I am neither.

[The Helpful Stacker]

I must say that I'm sure that MGD is very much in the minority in the Chinook force that I spent a fair bit of time working in/with, both during my last tour in the RAF and during my many years on TSW.
Whilst as in all branches of the military there are a few nobbers in the RAF Regiment (thankfully mainly in 2 Sqn for ease of avoidance) the majority are as hard working and well-trained as any infantryman (though perhaps not as any Rifleman ;o)) I have ever met, though unlike infantrymen they understand that a helicopter is not just a Land Rover with a fan on top and might require a bit more protection/respect.
The RAF Regiment staff on TSW were perhaps the best I've ever known, having the patience to turn a light blue stacker into someone who wouldn't require the constant sheparding of one of their squadrons whilst deployed somewhere dodgy and often these days, sandy. A task that is not always straightforward.
My hat is doffed to those fine chaps who keep the sky safe for those big, fat easy targets to land at foreign airfields and have that unenviable task to train tradesmen to have a slight resemblance to servicemen.

[cooheed]

RAF Regt might be a little more 'air aware' than you give them credit for. Army do the same job?

[SirPercyWare-Armitag]

The RAF Regiment has done a fantastic job in the past few years and have probably got their smug captions fully on. Everything they have bleated on about for years wrt force protection has become reality and they are in huge demand. After all, even one single MANPADS would be bad news.
Their seniors now have the ear of grown-ups at MOD, PJHQ and Air Command and they are relishing it large.
Credit to them for the predeployment training as well

CCS is still **** though

[Al R]

They do a great job in supporting the operational airforce (they do prepare Airmen and women very well for deployment) but please could you get a proportion on things. You are like the pioneers of the RLC guarding high value logistic locations not at the spearhead like the Parachute Regiment.

Nursey,

If I could just set the record straight. When you refer to proportion, do you mean size? Accepted, the reason you won't find the RAF Regiment deployed similarly is that it doesn't deploy in a similar manner and in terms of punch, we're not a cudgel. But in terms of infanterring ability I never came across Loggies when I did my Jungle Warfare Instructors Course, when I spent time doing TACP with (as was) 5 Airborne Brigade or a couple of other things either.

But diversity and breadth of experience is what is required of our paymasters - you will never find an infantry organisation within the UK that offers what the RAF Regiment does. Although The Royal Marines face similar demands, they deploy in serious numbers and as a fully integrated organisation. Our ORBAT (or whatever its called now) does not allow that, or Battle Group sized deployments, but if deploying by parachute with II Sqn RAF Regiment into Sri Lanka, getting over the Berms with CVR(T) first on Granby, wading ashore on the first wave in Corporate, deploying with helicopters or PROPERLY defending places like Akrotiri (who remembers the mid late 80s out there?), I think you'll find that the RAG Regiment gunner is more than able to hold his ground (metaphorically and literally).

In the early 90s there was short sighted talk of merging with the police. If god forbid, that had gone ahead, we would not even be having this debate now about Gunners mincing about in Oakleys as part of the Short Range Desert Group. The army would simply have said 'Yes, I know we said we could do it, but that was 4 years ago. Sorry - but you'll have to trawl around for 3000 tradesmen, take them away from their primary role and start filtering them around.'. And frankly, if you want to be defended by people who invariably find CCS the summit of military hardship, crack on.

I don't think the Regiment is being smug, its just too bloody busy at the moment.. although getting our stable belt back would be nice and f#ck off some guins at the same time.

[timex]

Wading ashore with the first wave on Op Corporate? Don't think so..

[Al R]

Happy to be corrected - it was May 24. Apologies.

I bet you anything it was more than probably the first wave that day though.

[Clockwork Mouse]

An infantry battalion is equipped, organised and trained for all phases of land warfare, including limited and manoeuvre warfare and protracted offensive operations over long distances and away from firm bases, in conjunction with other arms (armour, artillery, air etc).

The RAF Regiment's main purpose, for which they are equipped, organised and trained, is to defend static installations (air bases etc) and their approaches. At that they are outstandingly effective. So they should be because their role is relatively limited.

There is no question that they should be part of any other service than the RAF, who operate the bases they exist to defend. It would be wasteful to task infantry battalions with the RAF Regiment's task. The current situation is ideal and needs no tinkering.

[glad rag]

The RAF Regiment has done a fantastic job in the past few years and have probably got their smug captions fully on. Everything they have bleated on about for years wrt force protection has become reality and they are in huge demand. After all, even one single MANPADS would be bad news.
Their seniors now have the ear of grown-ups at MOD, PJHQ and Air Command and they are relishing it large.
Credit to them for the predeployment training as well

+1 Here.

[Gunnerrock]

Well someone likes us

“Joint Force Harrier”

Written by Commander Ade Orchard about a Royal Navy Fighter squadron based a Kandahar.

The Extract starts on page 108:-

In truth the RAF Regiment had really got to work on the threat from rockets. Although the airfield was subjected to attacks for the whole of the time we were in theatre – and probably still is – the accuracy of the attacks got worse and worse as time went on, because the Taliban insurgents were pushed further and further away from the perimeter. And for that the RAF Regiment was entirely responsible.

Anyone who has read anything about the Afghanistan campaign will be familiar with the major forces taking part: 3 Para, The Royal Marines and others. But the RAF Regiment guys were the real unsung heroes during our det.

Before they arrived to take over the force protection of the airfield, the task seemed to have been approached less proactively. A swift and violent retaliation to Taliban attacks was always guaranteed, but there were fewer patrols outside the wire. And it was these that made it more difficult for the Taliban to set up their rocket batteries within range.

Most of the rocket attacks came from the sector that lay to the North-east of the airfield, with just a handful from the South. The reason for this was clear to us: Highway one, the main road that runs from one end of the country to the other, passed right through tat area allowing attackers an easy route both in and out.

But all that changed as soon as the RAF Regiment took over. Their policy was completely different to that of their predecessors. They identified where the attack were coming from and began mounting aggressive patrols outside the wire in those areas, and succeeded in pushing their safe perimeter so far out that the Taliban were having to fire their rockets from extreme range, with very little chance of even hitting the airfield itself, let alone any specific targets on it.

The guys from the RAF Regiment achieved their success not only by their patrolling, which often located rocket batteries before the Taliban had a chance to fire them – the rockets were normally fired by remote control – but also by having excellent sniper teams.

There’s a misunderstanding about snipers. Most people seem to think that their job is just to go out into the badlands and kill people, but the primary role of a sniper team is usually reconnaissance and intelligence gathering. In Afghanistan, in particular, they were watching for significant changes in the pattern of life in the villages and hamlets, because that was often the first clue that the Taliban might have moved in. They observed their targets through telescopic sights, but the fact that the sight was attached to a long range sniper rifle was almost coincidental – it didn’t automatically mean they were tasked with killing the people they were observing.

At Kandahar the snipers went out into the area and dug themselves in for days at a time, initially just watching the activity around them, acting a surveillance teams, and radioing their reports back to the Regiment on the airfield. Only when they’d observed all they needed to would they then pick off the individual Taliban as they were setting up their rocket batteries, well before they were able to fire their missiles. And, even then, killing the men setting up or firing the weapons was only part of it, because these were believed to be very low ranking insurgents, given the most dangerous jobs. Whenever possible, the snipers preferred to target the people who gave the orders or directed the preparation of the weapons.

Once this operation got underway the numbers of rocket attacks on the airfield dropped sharply’ and eventually almost stopped. It was an excellent demonstration of proactive force protection and, once the RAF Regiment took over, most of us at Kandahar slept a lot better knowing they were out there.

Counter – battery fire was, without doubt, one of the most impressive aspects of the RAF Regiment’s considerable repertoire of skills. As the name suggests, the tactic is return fire directed at a rocket battery or gun that is firing into the defended area. I saw it used several times, but one occasion in particular sticks in my mind. The base was again the target of a rocket attack, but while the rockets were still in the air an RAF Regiment mortar team responded, firing their rounds at the location they’d calculated the rockets had been launched from.

When a reconnaissance party went out to check the site the following day, they found the launchers exactly where they’d expected. They also found that one of the mortar rounds had landed within two feet of one of the launchers, and the other two at distances of about twelve feet and twenty feet. If any Taliban had been at the site when the mortar bombs landed, they would certainly have been killed. There were no bodies at the site, which was not surprising, as the Taliban invariably removed their dead and injured comrades, and we also knew that most rocket attacks were initiated by timing circuits.

This remarkable speed of response and staggering accuracy was down to the high tech gear they used. The RAF Regiment mortar teams identified the location of the battery that fired the missiles, and a high speed computer then calculated the trajectory required by their weapon to return fire.