Gays in the RAF
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There appears to be very many prejudices still left in the RAF amongst front line aircrew and I do wonder how many of you actually are Aircrew. Perhaps the Military Aircrew section should be retitled to something a little more appropriate
Attitude...very important for all pilots and a "must know" to survive, particularly if you wish to be a military pilot. My gut feeling is that you are not suitable to be a commisioned officer because you place your sexuality before your aspirational desire to fly as a Military Pilot.
The majority of posters on this thread are serving or retired aircrew and you would be foolish in the extreme to dismiss their advice or be upset by the banter. Matters not to me, I'm long since gone from that world, but for your sake Gai (if you exist) grow up!
Crikey there are some real hand-wringing liberals on this thread, trying so hard to show how modern and 'inclusive' they are and bemoaning the 'bigotry' in the RAF... GET OVER YOURSELVES!
The British military is one of the most monitored, equality and diversity-educated, constantly assessed organisations in the public sector. There is no hiding place for bigotry, sexism,racism, ageism..whatever ism you feel offended by this week. In fact, the most oppressed and overlooked demographic is the WASP middle-class males - who is always represented in the 'Harrassment' pamphlets and DVDs as the oppressor? White males!
The RAF as a organisation has always accepted people on the basis of their ability, I mean come on, how much effort do we go to in order to provide sabbaticals, maternity leave, flexi-time, free travel warrants for minority events (Gay Pride as an example - so where was my ticket to Miss World???) So touting yourself as GaiPilot implies that you demand special treatment based on your sexuality and you are looking to be defined as such.
Have a word.
The British military is one of the most monitored, equality and diversity-educated, constantly assessed organisations in the public sector. There is no hiding place for bigotry, sexism,racism, ageism..whatever ism you feel offended by this week. In fact, the most oppressed and overlooked demographic is the WASP middle-class males - who is always represented in the 'Harrassment' pamphlets and DVDs as the oppressor? White males!
The RAF as a organisation has always accepted people on the basis of their ability, I mean come on, how much effort do we go to in order to provide sabbaticals, maternity leave, flexi-time, free travel warrants for minority events (Gay Pride as an example - so where was my ticket to Miss World???) So touting yourself as GaiPilot implies that you demand special treatment based on your sexuality and you are looking to be defined as such.
Have a word.
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if you think that your homosexuality is so important go and work for stonewall or some such organisation: if you think that being a pilot is more important then just get on with it.
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Crikey there are some real hand-wringing liberals on this thread, trying so hard to show how modern and 'inclusive' they are and bemoaning the 'bigotry' in the RAF... GET OVER YOURSELVES!
I did say 'some' liberals... like the poster responsible for this little nugget:
Just because a large part of British society has gone to the dogs (anarchy, drugs, emo kids, X-Factor etc) doesn't mean the RAF should follow.
(And someone please shoot the idiot who first said "This is the 21st Century you know!!!" As if some arbitrary milestone on the Gregorian calendar implies that a certain organisation/method/society should change...
)
Why the hell should you hide who you are just to please the idiotic bigotry that is clearly alive and well in the RAF?...The RAF is about 30 or 40 years behind the rest of society when it comes to social attitudes and in some respects it still (along with the other services, to a lesser extent in my experience) serves as a haven for the socially inadequate, where they can maintain their "old-fashioned", or as I would call it, offensive, attitudes and beliefs.
(And someone please shoot the idiot who first said "This is the 21st Century you know!!!" As if some arbitrary milestone on the Gregorian calendar implies that a certain organisation/method/society should change...
)
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..as always, if ever we find ourselves facing a difficult moral question in our lives; Bill Hicks has the answer.....YouTube - Bill Hicks- Gays in the Military
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Rebel PPRuNer
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While there has been a lot of talk above about "flaunting" and its general undesirability, perhaps someone would like to address one of the specific questions GP asked:
Does this count as flaunting?
Originally Posted by GaiPilot
What is going to happen when I turn up with my partner for a social function in the Officers Mess?
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You are also protected by law
While there has been a lot of talk above about "flaunting" and its general undesirability, perhaps someone would like to address one of the specific questions GP asked:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaiPilot
What is going to happen when I turn up with my partner for a social function in the Officers Mess?
Does this count as flaunting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaiPilot
What is going to happen when I turn up with my partner for a social function in the Officers Mess?
Does this count as flaunting?
Maybe he could join the wives club.......bitching at coffee mornings, mess flowers, etc...
er!
, this thread's become a right real PITA.
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Mark D wrote: While there has been a lot of talk above about "flaunting" and its general undesirability, perhaps someone would like to address one of the specific questions GP asked:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaiPilot
What is going to happen when I turn up with my partner for a social function in the Officers Mess?
Does this count as flaunting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaiPilot
What is going to happen when I turn up with my partner for a social function in the Officers Mess?
Does this count as flaunting?
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WHAT'S WITH THE OLDIE BASHING?
As well as the inevitable gay bashing, there has been a bit of oldie bashing on this thread. For instance, Nostrinian's: "GP, youve probably sussed out by now alot of these guys are actually old and their service days long gone".
In the last 15 to 20 years the Armed Services have changed their rules and standards to accommodate the views of a civil society which is becoming increasingly liberal and which these days has very little concept of what armed service actually involves. These rules vary from legal jurisdiction, health and safety to personal moral standards. I believe that many of the changes were inevitable, some even necessary, but some have created serious personnel problems and arguably weakened the Services operational effectiveness. For example, the Human Rights Act. Captured pirates cannot be sent back to whatever authorities can be found in Somalia, in case they are subject to harsh treatment. That would contravene the British Human Rights Act, for Heaven’s sake.
Older, more senior serving personnel are probably more aware of the changes than the younger, and in many cases are disturbed and disheartened by their effects, so may not embrace the new rules with much enthusiasm. But do not characterise the old and bold dismissively as sitting in the corner of the mess smelling of wee and waiting for retirement. They have seen harsh service, loyally done their duty and spilled their blood for their countrymen when called upon to do so.
As well as the inevitable gay bashing, there has been a bit of oldie bashing on this thread. For instance, Nostrinian's: "GP, youve probably sussed out by now alot of these guys are actually old and their service days long gone".
In the last 15 to 20 years the Armed Services have changed their rules and standards to accommodate the views of a civil society which is becoming increasingly liberal and which these days has very little concept of what armed service actually involves. These rules vary from legal jurisdiction, health and safety to personal moral standards. I believe that many of the changes were inevitable, some even necessary, but some have created serious personnel problems and arguably weakened the Services operational effectiveness. For example, the Human Rights Act. Captured pirates cannot be sent back to whatever authorities can be found in Somalia, in case they are subject to harsh treatment. That would contravene the British Human Rights Act, for Heaven’s sake.
Older, more senior serving personnel are probably more aware of the changes than the younger, and in many cases are disturbed and disheartened by their effects, so may not embrace the new rules with much enthusiasm. But do not characterise the old and bold dismissively as sitting in the corner of the mess smelling of wee and waiting for retirement. They have seen harsh service, loyally done their duty and spilled their blood for their countrymen when called upon to do so.
Last edited by Clockwork Mouse; 19th Nov 2008 at 09:33.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Very well said Clockwork. I had been crafting something far less erudite, suffice to say, old and now out of the service perhaps, but we still have a very fair idea of how the 'system' today works.
Well it's been a while since anyone added to the 74 posts that say -
People are more interested in your ability than sexuality blah, don't flaunt it blah, I knows lots and it isn't a problem blah.
Can anyone post more of the above or shall I just go and cut and paste before posting a meaningless reply that says exactly what 74 other posts say?
People are more interested in your ability than sexuality blah, don't flaunt it blah, I knows lots and it isn't a problem blah.
Can anyone post more of the above or shall I just go and cut and paste before posting a meaningless reply that says exactly what 74 other posts say?
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One of the nice things about the rules in the old days was that homosexuals couldn't make an issue out of their sexuality, but just had to get on with the job of being an officer in their service. I don't doubt that I served with a few, and I know of some who were most definitely homosexual, but they couldn't make a thing of it: they were judged on their ability in the role, and whether they were any fun on a run ashore.
Mr Gaipilot: have you got the message yet?
Mr Gaipilot: have you got the message yet?
‘Ere, this thread..
What's wrong with it?
I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. It’s dead, that's what's wrong with it!
No, no, it’s uh,...it’s resting.
Look, matey, I know a dead thread when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.
No no it’s not dead, it’s, it’s restin'!
All right then, if it’s restin', I'll wake it up! (shouting at the screen) 'Ello, Mister GaiPilot! I've got a lovely pink flying suit for you if you show...
(hits the cage) There, he moved!
No, he didn't, that was you hitting the screen!
I never!!
Yes, you did!
I never, never did anything...
(yelling and hitting the screen repeatedly) 'ELLO Mister GaiPilot!!!! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your nine o'clock alarm call!
(takes screen off stand and thumps it against the desk. Throws it up in the air and watches it plummet to the floor.) Now that's what I call a dead thread.
No, no.....No, it’s stunned!
STUNNED?!?
Yeah! You stunned it, just as it was wakin' up! Gay pilot threads stun easily, major.
Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That thread is definitely deceased, and when I first looked at it not 'alf an hour ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein' tired and shagged out following a prolonged flaunt.
Well, it’s...it’s, ah...probably pining for the fjords.
PININ' for the FJORDS?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why did it fall flat on its back the moment I got it on the screen?
The GaiPilot prefers keepin' on its back! Remarkable creature, id'nit, squire? Lovely plumage!
Look, I took the liberty of examining that thread when I first called it up, and I discovered the only reason that it was still there was that it had been NAILED there.
(pause)
Well, o'course it was nailed there! If I hadn't nailed that thread down, it would have been off and shot up into the long, delirious, burning blue with a VOOM!
"VOOM"?!? Mate, this thread wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! It’s bleedin' demised!
No no! It’s pining!
This thread is no more! It has ceased to be! It’s expired and gone to meet its maker! It’s a stiff! (oo-er, missus!) Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed it to the screen it’d be pushing up the daisies! It's kicked the bucket, it’s shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibule!! THIS IS AN EX-THREAD!!
Well, I s’pose I'd better delete it, then.
What's wrong with it?
I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. It’s dead, that's what's wrong with it!
No, no, it’s uh,...it’s resting.
Look, matey, I know a dead thread when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.
No no it’s not dead, it’s, it’s restin'!
All right then, if it’s restin', I'll wake it up! (shouting at the screen) 'Ello, Mister GaiPilot! I've got a lovely pink flying suit for you if you show...
(hits the cage) There, he moved!
No, he didn't, that was you hitting the screen!
I never!!
Yes, you did!
I never, never did anything...
(yelling and hitting the screen repeatedly) 'ELLO Mister GaiPilot!!!! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your nine o'clock alarm call!
(takes screen off stand and thumps it against the desk. Throws it up in the air and watches it plummet to the floor.) Now that's what I call a dead thread.
No, no.....No, it’s stunned!
STUNNED?!?
Yeah! You stunned it, just as it was wakin' up! Gay pilot threads stun easily, major.
Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That thread is definitely deceased, and when I first looked at it not 'alf an hour ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein' tired and shagged out following a prolonged flaunt.
Well, it’s...it’s, ah...probably pining for the fjords.
PININ' for the FJORDS?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why did it fall flat on its back the moment I got it on the screen?
The GaiPilot prefers keepin' on its back! Remarkable creature, id'nit, squire? Lovely plumage!
Look, I took the liberty of examining that thread when I first called it up, and I discovered the only reason that it was still there was that it had been NAILED there.
(pause)
Well, o'course it was nailed there! If I hadn't nailed that thread down, it would have been off and shot up into the long, delirious, burning blue with a VOOM!
"VOOM"?!? Mate, this thread wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! It’s bleedin' demised!
No no! It’s pining!
This thread is no more! It has ceased to be! It’s expired and gone to meet its maker! It’s a stiff! (oo-er, missus!) Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed it to the screen it’d be pushing up the daisies! It's kicked the bucket, it’s shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibule!! THIS IS AN EX-THREAD!!
Well, I s’pose I'd better delete it, then.