France accuses UK military of war crimes.
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You Brits have always been tough bastards, and surely AZINCOURT was a battle your archers won against la creme de la creme of French aristocracy.
But why not admit the feat was greatly exagerated, as in the end the glorious soldiers were booted out by a French woman
But what to expect of a nation which still now worship KITCHENER, the butcher who invented the concentration camps and killed thousend of women and children to win a war he would have lost otherwise, had he not acted as a criminal of war.
But why not admit the feat was greatly exagerated, as in the end the glorious soldiers were booted out by a French woman
But what to expect of a nation which still now worship KITCHENER, the butcher who invented the concentration camps and killed thousend of women and children to win a war he would have lost otherwise, had he not acted as a criminal of war.
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Of all the things the French could of chosen to have a go at us Brits over, I would suggest that military prowess should of been at the bottom of their list.
But then again, they've never been very good at picking their battles have they...
But then again, they've never been very good at picking their battles have they...
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But what to expect of a nation which still now worship KITCHENER...
From what I know of history he was regarded as a bit of a butcher by his own troops and still is. Hardly the sort of person that usually garners worship.
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Qui dans le RAF gagne à £3.32 par heure ?
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If I might crave a moment of your time...
Once upon a time in the Kingdom of Heaven, God went missing for six days. Eventually, on the seventh day, the Archangel Michael found him, resting.
He inquired of God, "Where have you been?"
God sighed a deep sigh of satisfaction and proudly pointed downwards through the clouds, "Look, Michael, look what I've made."
Archangel Michael looked puzzled and said, "What is it?"
"It's a planet," replied God, "and I've put life on it. I'm going to call it Earth and it's going to be a great place of balance."
"Balance?" inquired Michael, still confused.
God explained, pointing to different parts of the Earth, "For example, North America will be a place of great opportunity and wealth while South America is going to be poor; the Middle East over there will be a hot spot. Over there I've placed a continent of white people and over there is a continent of black people." God continued, pointing to different countries, "This one will be extremely hot and arid while this one will be very cold and covered in ice."
The Archangel, impressed by God's work, then pointed to a small land mass and said, "What's that one?"
"Ah," said God. "That's Britain, the most glorious place on Earth. There are lakes, rivers, streams, and hills. The people from Britain are going to be modest, intelligent and humorous and they're going to be found travelling the world. They'll be extremely sociable, hard-working and high-achieving and they will be known throughout the world as diplomats and carriers of peace."
Michael gasped in wonder and admiration but then proclaimed, "What about balance, God? You said there will be balance!"
“Ah,” God replied wisely, "just wait until you see the w*nkers I'm putting next door to them in France."
He inquired of God, "Where have you been?"
God sighed a deep sigh of satisfaction and proudly pointed downwards through the clouds, "Look, Michael, look what I've made."
Archangel Michael looked puzzled and said, "What is it?"
"It's a planet," replied God, "and I've put life on it. I'm going to call it Earth and it's going to be a great place of balance."
"Balance?" inquired Michael, still confused.
God explained, pointing to different parts of the Earth, "For example, North America will be a place of great opportunity and wealth while South America is going to be poor; the Middle East over there will be a hot spot. Over there I've placed a continent of white people and over there is a continent of black people." God continued, pointing to different countries, "This one will be extremely hot and arid while this one will be very cold and covered in ice."
The Archangel, impressed by God's work, then pointed to a small land mass and said, "What's that one?"
"Ah," said God. "That's Britain, the most glorious place on Earth. There are lakes, rivers, streams, and hills. The people from Britain are going to be modest, intelligent and humorous and they're going to be found travelling the world. They'll be extremely sociable, hard-working and high-achieving and they will be known throughout the world as diplomats and carriers of peace."
Michael gasped in wonder and admiration but then proclaimed, "What about balance, God? You said there will be balance!"
“Ah,” God replied wisely, "just wait until you see the w*nkers I'm putting next door to them in France."
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But then again, they've never been very good at picking their battles have they...
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From:
Taliban capture MILAN launcher with missiles from French - The Land Forces - Warships1 and NavWeaps Discussion Boards - Warships1 and NavWeaps Discussion Boards - Message Board - Yuku
FRANCE PLAYS DOWN TALIBAN CAPTURE OF ANTI-TANK MISSILES
Agence France-Presse via the Toqueville Connection, 24 Oct 08
Article link France played down Friday the capture by Taliban forces of two French anti-tank missiles seized after the insurgents launched a major attack on hundreds of its troops in Afghanistan.
Defence Minister Herve Morin said Western forces in Afghanistan sometimes had to abandon weapons in the field and that the main concern had been to get the troops out of last Saturday's ambush alive.
"It was an ambush in a narrow valley, with a lot of Taliban," said Morin as he visited an army unit in the eastern town of Annecy that was about to send some of its soldiers to Afghanistan.
"The essential thing is that everyone is alive," he said, adding that the Milan anti-tank missiles abandoned would be difficult to use for anyone without the proper training.
Fourteen Taliban were killed in the clash, according to NATO's International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan.
The ambush took place in the Alasai valley north of the capital Kabul, near where 10 French soldiers were killed in another Taliban ambush in mid-August.
But the French army waited until Thursday to publicly announce the incident.
It said that around 300 French troops were attacked by about 100 Taliban and had to retreat after fierce fighting.
Air cover was called in to help them get out of the ambush, said Lieutenant Colonel Bruno Louisfert, a French army spokesman in Afghanistan.
He said a missile launcher was also abandoned along with the two Milan portable medium-range guided missiles.
About 70,000 international troops -- 40,000 of them under NATO command -- are helping Afghans fight the Taliban who were ousted from Kabul in a US-led invasion launched after the September 11, 2001 attacks.
France has around 2,600 troops there.
Taliban capture MILAN launcher with missiles from French - The Land Forces - Warships1 and NavWeaps Discussion Boards - Warships1 and NavWeaps Discussion Boards - Message Board - Yuku
FRANCE PLAYS DOWN TALIBAN CAPTURE OF ANTI-TANK MISSILES
Agence France-Presse via the Toqueville Connection, 24 Oct 08
Article link France played down Friday the capture by Taliban forces of two French anti-tank missiles seized after the insurgents launched a major attack on hundreds of its troops in Afghanistan.
Defence Minister Herve Morin said Western forces in Afghanistan sometimes had to abandon weapons in the field and that the main concern had been to get the troops out of last Saturday's ambush alive.
"It was an ambush in a narrow valley, with a lot of Taliban," said Morin as he visited an army unit in the eastern town of Annecy that was about to send some of its soldiers to Afghanistan.
"The essential thing is that everyone is alive," he said, adding that the Milan anti-tank missiles abandoned would be difficult to use for anyone without the proper training.
Fourteen Taliban were killed in the clash, according to NATO's International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan.
The ambush took place in the Alasai valley north of the capital Kabul, near where 10 French soldiers were killed in another Taliban ambush in mid-August.
But the French army waited until Thursday to publicly announce the incident.
It said that around 300 French troops were attacked by about 100 Taliban and had to retreat after fierce fighting.
Air cover was called in to help them get out of the ambush, said Lieutenant Colonel Bruno Louisfert, a French army spokesman in Afghanistan.
He said a missile launcher was also abandoned along with the two Milan portable medium-range guided missiles.
About 70,000 international troops -- 40,000 of them under NATO command -- are helping Afghans fight the Taliban who were ousted from Kabul in a US-led invasion launched after the September 11, 2001 attacks.
France has around 2,600 troops there.
Some years ago there were moves in France to rename Bastille Day (celebrated 14th July) because of its martial sounding overtones. A wag suggested calling it "Letting the Germans March Into Paris Without a Shot being Fired" Day. Didn't catch on.
On the other hand, they have got the Rafale and the Etendard, Mig, Tiger, Exocet, the Charles de Gaulle (a real aircraft carrier), along with a very handy Foreign Legion AND they still have 2 years' national service. In fact I'd say they do okay for themselves and perhaps we shouldn't be smirking so much.
On the other hand, they have got the Rafale and the Etendard, Mig, Tiger, Exocet, the Charles de Gaulle (a real aircraft carrier), along with a very handy Foreign Legion AND they still have 2 years' national service. In fact I'd say they do okay for themselves and perhaps we shouldn't be smirking so much.
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...along with a very handy Foreign Legion...
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What about the great achievment of the British Army in Afghanistan .It looks like some here are definitely missing important points of their less than glorious military history.
The British Are Forced to Flee
Sir William Mcnaghten, who had been trying to negotiate a way out of the city, was murdered on December 23, 1841, reportedly by Muhammad Akbar Khan himself. The British, their situation hopeless, somehow managed to negotiate a treaty to leave Afghanistan.
On January 6, 1842, the British began their withdrawal from Kabul. Leaving the city were 4,500 British troops and 12,000 civilians who had followed the British Army to Kabul. The plan was to march to Jalalabad, about 90 miles away.
The retreat in the brutally cold weather took an immediate toll, and many died from exposure in the first days. And despite the treaty, the British column came under attack when it reached a mountain pass, the Khurd Kabul. The retreat became a massacre.
Slaughter in the Mountain Passes
A magazine based in Boston, the North American Review, published a remarkably extensive and timely account titled “The English in Afghanistan” six months later, in July 1842. It contained this vivid description (some antiquated spellings have been left intact):
On the 6th of January, 1842, the Caboul forces commenced their retreat through the dismal pass, destined to be their grave. On the third day they were attacked by the mountaineers from all points, and a fearful slaughter ensued…
The troops kept on, and awful scenes ensued. Without food, mangled and cut to pieces, each one caring only for himself, all subordination had fled; and the soldiers of the forty-fourth English regiment are reported to have knocked down their officers with the butts of their muskets.
On the 13th of January, just seven days after the retreat commenced, one man, bloody and torn, mounted on a miserable pony, and pursued by horsemen, was seen riding furiously across the plains to Jellalabad. That was Dr. Brydon, the sole person to tell the tale of the passage of Khourd Caboul.
More than 16,000 people had set out on the retreat from Kabul, and in the end only one man, Dr. William Brydon, a British Army surgeon, had made it alive to Jalalabad. The garrison there lit signal fires and sounded bugles to guide other British survivors to safety, but after several days they realized that Brydon would be the only one. It was believed the Afghans let him live so he could tell the grisly story.
A Severe Blow to British Pride
Sir William Mcnaghten, who had been trying to negotiate a way out of the city, was murdered on December 23, 1841, reportedly by Muhammad Akbar Khan himself. The British, their situation hopeless, somehow managed to negotiate a treaty to leave Afghanistan.
On January 6, 1842, the British began their withdrawal from Kabul. Leaving the city were 4,500 British troops and 12,000 civilians who had followed the British Army to Kabul. The plan was to march to Jalalabad, about 90 miles away.
The retreat in the brutally cold weather took an immediate toll, and many died from exposure in the first days. And despite the treaty, the British column came under attack when it reached a mountain pass, the Khurd Kabul. The retreat became a massacre.
Slaughter in the Mountain Passes
A magazine based in Boston, the North American Review, published a remarkably extensive and timely account titled “The English in Afghanistan” six months later, in July 1842. It contained this vivid description (some antiquated spellings have been left intact):
On the 6th of January, 1842, the Caboul forces commenced their retreat through the dismal pass, destined to be their grave. On the third day they were attacked by the mountaineers from all points, and a fearful slaughter ensued…
The troops kept on, and awful scenes ensued. Without food, mangled and cut to pieces, each one caring only for himself, all subordination had fled; and the soldiers of the forty-fourth English regiment are reported to have knocked down their officers with the butts of their muskets.
On the 13th of January, just seven days after the retreat commenced, one man, bloody and torn, mounted on a miserable pony, and pursued by horsemen, was seen riding furiously across the plains to Jellalabad. That was Dr. Brydon, the sole person to tell the tale of the passage of Khourd Caboul.
More than 16,000 people had set out on the retreat from Kabul, and in the end only one man, Dr. William Brydon, a British Army surgeon, had made it alive to Jalalabad. The garrison there lit signal fires and sounded bugles to guide other British survivors to safety, but after several days they realized that Brydon would be the only one. It was believed the Afghans let him live so he could tell the grisly story.
A Severe Blow to British Pride
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No thats what is known as a lesson learned.
France too have learned their lesson of course. They generally try and avoid all wars* unless the enemy are armed with nothing more dangerous than soft fruit but if they have to go somewhere dodgy they send the FFL (those Brits, Germans and East Europeans I mentioned earlier).
* Well avoid fighting but they love selling weapons, especially to regimes others in the security council are less than impressed with. Hence the hissy fit when said other security council member states decide they want to remove a good customer of France.
France too have learned their lesson of course. They generally try and avoid all wars* unless the enemy are armed with nothing more dangerous than soft fruit but if they have to go somewhere dodgy they send the FFL (those Brits, Germans and East Europeans I mentioned earlier).
* Well avoid fighting but they love selling weapons, especially to regimes others in the security council are less than impressed with. Hence the hissy fit when said other security council member states decide they want to remove a good customer of France.
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Reminds me.
You know why the French helped with the Channel tunnel don't you? No? Well I'll tell you. It was to assist the French to get to London before the Germans get to Paris.
You know why the French helped with the Channel tunnel don't you? No? Well I'll tell you. It was to assist the French to get to London before the Germans get to Paris.
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There is some very tasteless posturing going on here from people who should know better. The French unit that was ambushed in Afghanistan recently were Marine-paratroopers who are just as well trained, fit and courageous as our own Marines and Paras. The reason they were so badly caught was because they did not have enough ammunition, they had comms failure, and no air support was available until too late in the action. Yes, there were failings higher up in the command but no failings of the blokes on the ground. Rather similar to the deaths of our redcaps in Iraq in fact. Were they cowards then? No, of course not.
You might also try reading some unairbrushed accounts of the Dunkirk evacuation (eg Clive Ponting - 1940 Myth and Reality). We tend to regard it through rose-tinted glasses as a noble, strategic retreat. In fact, we basically abandoned our agreement with the French allies to defend France, and ran away in considerable disarray, with plenty of looting and raping of French civilians, leaving the French to hold off the Germans at the bridgehead. The French General Wegard wanted to try a counter-attack at Arras to cut off German supplies and therefore perhaps allow the encirled troops to rebuff the Germans, but the British General Cort refused. The senior RN officer at Dunkirk, Captain Tenant, said at the time "The French staff at Dunkirk feel strongly that they are defending Dunkirk for us to evacuate, which is largely true". Some of the French soldiers who had been fighting shoulder to shoulder with the Brits were not allowed to evacuate and were forced off British ships (though they were allowed to evacuate once all or most of the Brits were out). The French actually held the bridgehead until 4 June, taking very heavy casualties, by which time all the Brits were out. Vastly outnumbered, they were forced to surrender and taken prisoner.
Also, try reading some WW1 history. The general consensus was that the French army out-performed the British army. For example, one of the reasons for the Battle of Verdun was that the German high command realised that they could never defeat Britain (who they considered the real enemy) without first defeating the French, who they believed were defending Britain. As everybody knows (or should know) Verdun was an incredible bloody and courageous display of tenacious defending by French, who lost 400,000 men.
Jackonicko that is particularly pathetic coming from somebody who purports to be a journalist. There are in fact plenty of French military historians who have published some intriguing research, which is well worth reading to get a balanced picture of history. I suspect the reason you have not read any is that you can't read French?
It is frankly rather juvenile to try to pretend that Brits are somehow braver or more noble in battle than the French.
You might also try reading some unairbrushed accounts of the Dunkirk evacuation (eg Clive Ponting - 1940 Myth and Reality). We tend to regard it through rose-tinted glasses as a noble, strategic retreat. In fact, we basically abandoned our agreement with the French allies to defend France, and ran away in considerable disarray, with plenty of looting and raping of French civilians, leaving the French to hold off the Germans at the bridgehead. The French General Wegard wanted to try a counter-attack at Arras to cut off German supplies and therefore perhaps allow the encirled troops to rebuff the Germans, but the British General Cort refused. The senior RN officer at Dunkirk, Captain Tenant, said at the time "The French staff at Dunkirk feel strongly that they are defending Dunkirk for us to evacuate, which is largely true". Some of the French soldiers who had been fighting shoulder to shoulder with the Brits were not allowed to evacuate and were forced off British ships (though they were allowed to evacuate once all or most of the Brits were out). The French actually held the bridgehead until 4 June, taking very heavy casualties, by which time all the Brits were out. Vastly outnumbered, they were forced to surrender and taken prisoner.
Also, try reading some WW1 history. The general consensus was that the French army out-performed the British army. For example, one of the reasons for the Battle of Verdun was that the German high command realised that they could never defeat Britain (who they considered the real enemy) without first defeating the French, who they believed were defending Britain. As everybody knows (or should know) Verdun was an incredible bloody and courageous display of tenacious defending by French, who lost 400,000 men.
History is written by the victors.
Thus the French don't really do military history.
Thus the French don't really do military history.
It is frankly rather juvenile to try to pretend that Brits are somehow braver or more noble in battle than the French.
Last edited by CirrusF; 27th Oct 2008 at 10:33.