Blues if not flying
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Frozen South
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why flying suits enhance the quality of your working life:
1. Full name badges make everything easier, whether its relaxing in the bar, or asking someone you don't know for a favour (we need some form of this for ground branches of all ranks).
2. Its extremely comfortable.
3. Its recognized worldwide in just about every Air Force.
4. 6 pockets plus pen holders make everything easier.
5. Minimal upkeep means more time to focus on the important things in life.
Generall speaking, I assume that someone in a flying suit has had to work extremely hard to earn it, displaying flexibility, initiative and persistence. All good qualities when a job needs doing. Often in the past I've been met by the answer "no" by a person in blue, however people in flying suits tend to reply "I'll find a way".
Unfortunately, those who see flying suits as a mark of elitism are entirely correct. However elitism is required in a job which can easily get you killed if you make a mistake.
1. Full name badges make everything easier, whether its relaxing in the bar, or asking someone you don't know for a favour (we need some form of this for ground branches of all ranks).
2. Its extremely comfortable.
3. Its recognized worldwide in just about every Air Force.
4. 6 pockets plus pen holders make everything easier.
5. Minimal upkeep means more time to focus on the important things in life.
Generall speaking, I assume that someone in a flying suit has had to work extremely hard to earn it, displaying flexibility, initiative and persistence. All good qualities when a job needs doing. Often in the past I've been met by the answer "no" by a person in blue, however people in flying suits tend to reply "I'll find a way".
Unfortunately, those who see flying suits as a mark of elitism are entirely correct. However elitism is required in a job which can easily get you killed if you make a mistake.
Sorry: ...............................................
HAPPY HOUR ,- 22 OCTOBER 19xx
I regret having to write to you about your involvement in the antics
in the Mess Bar by the visiting Royal Navy Lynx aircrew after Happy
Hour on 22 October.
(----------) made it quite clear to the Lynx crews that they were not
to climb, up to the roof to place a "zap”. I understand that after he
left the bar, you were the Senior Officer present and that you
encouraged or at least allowed the visitors to draw graffiti on the
roof. I am sure that you will agree that whilst some high spirits in
the Mess are acceptable - and indeed are part of Mess life -
despoiling the decoration is not. We would otherwise, end up with a
bar reminiscent of that at Mount Pleasant if we allowed our visitors
to act in this way.
Under normal circumstances, I would write to their Squadron Commander
and enclose a bill for removing the graffiti; however, your
involvement prevents me from doing so in this case.I would therefore
be grateful if you would arrange for the drawings to be removed. If
you have any difficulty with this, I will raise a Work Service on your
behalf.
1 would also be grateful if you would assist me and the other Station
executives in applying the Mess rules regarding the wearing of flying
clothing in the Bar. If the rules are flouted, we aviators will end
up with the privilege removed.
Yours (------------)
I regret having to write to you about your involvement in the antics
in the Mess Bar by the visiting Royal Navy Lynx aircrew after Happy
Hour on 22 October.
(----------) made it quite clear to the Lynx crews that they were not
to climb, up to the roof to place a "zap”. I understand that after he
left the bar, you were the Senior Officer present and that you
encouraged or at least allowed the visitors to draw graffiti on the
roof. I am sure that you will agree that whilst some high spirits in
the Mess are acceptable - and indeed are part of Mess life -
despoiling the decoration is not. We would otherwise, end up with a
bar reminiscent of that at Mount Pleasant if we allowed our visitors
to act in this way.
Under normal circumstances, I would write to their Squadron Commander
and enclose a bill for removing the graffiti; however, your
involvement prevents me from doing so in this case.I would therefore
be grateful if you would arrange for the drawings to be removed. If
you have any difficulty with this, I will raise a Work Service on your
behalf.
1 would also be grateful if you would assist me and the other Station
executives in applying the Mess rules regarding the wearing of flying
clothing in the Bar. If the rules are flouted, we aviators will end
up with the privilege removed.
Yours (------------)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: @exRAF_Al
Posts: 3,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pylot said; I for one will be giving this latest lack of initiative the ignoring it deserves, and am happy to accept the punishment for arriving at my workplace dressed to the the job I am employed to do!
No Al, I imagine that people would observe the relevant NBC Dress State as directed by the GDT (or whatver the latest trendy TLA is) staff.
And I'd certainly recommend people to take it off and let it air before shoving it in the car boot again! Why didn't we used to keep it at work? Simple, no clothing lockers and NBC kt was all too easily stolen by others who'd lost theirs.
One lazy sod (a PPRuNer - You Know Who You Are!) had cut out a section of an aircrew NBC inner, which he used to wear on exercises pretending to be fully dressed in the real thing - but as only the zipped section could be seen, he got away with it for ages until 'someone' cut it in half. He then had no option but to wear full NBC IPE as we were only issued with 1 inner for exercises! After Gulf War 1, all the combopens, NAPs and BATs which we'd forgotten or failed to return used to end up in his desk drawer!
Of course it's always worth a good check of your respirator haversack; back in the early 1970s when we had squadron NBC stuff held centrally. someone issued me with an NBC haversack which was supposed to contain an S6 - when I checked all I found was a squashed coke can, an apple core and a mouldy sandwich corner!
Back to the thread; I really cannot see why anyone on a ground tour would wear a flying suit.
I once attended an EW course at Boulmer (in blunty blue) and was told that they'd had to tell other aircrew that flying suits were not to be worn for the course. Fair enough, but what sort of dickheads would expect to? Presumably the same as the pair of poseurs who drove in flying suits and aviator shades in a BMW convertible from Coningsby to Waddington for a 4-star briefing. They gave the impression of being silly little boys who'd dressed up to look 'kewel'...
No wonder there is some anitpathy towards inappropriate wearing of flying clothing! But an ALJ with blunty blue shirt and trousers, whilst contravening the regulations, does look a whole lot better than that paeodphile's pullover.
And I'd certainly recommend people to take it off and let it air before shoving it in the car boot again! Why didn't we used to keep it at work? Simple, no clothing lockers and NBC kt was all too easily stolen by others who'd lost theirs.
One lazy sod (a PPRuNer - You Know Who You Are!) had cut out a section of an aircrew NBC inner, which he used to wear on exercises pretending to be fully dressed in the real thing - but as only the zipped section could be seen, he got away with it for ages until 'someone' cut it in half. He then had no option but to wear full NBC IPE as we were only issued with 1 inner for exercises! After Gulf War 1, all the combopens, NAPs and BATs which we'd forgotten or failed to return used to end up in his desk drawer!
Of course it's always worth a good check of your respirator haversack; back in the early 1970s when we had squadron NBC stuff held centrally. someone issued me with an NBC haversack which was supposed to contain an S6 - when I checked all I found was a squashed coke can, an apple core and a mouldy sandwich corner!
Back to the thread; I really cannot see why anyone on a ground tour would wear a flying suit.
I once attended an EW course at Boulmer (in blunty blue) and was told that they'd had to tell other aircrew that flying suits were not to be worn for the course. Fair enough, but what sort of dickheads would expect to? Presumably the same as the pair of poseurs who drove in flying suits and aviator shades in a BMW convertible from Coningsby to Waddington for a 4-star briefing. They gave the impression of being silly little boys who'd dressed up to look 'kewel'...
No wonder there is some anitpathy towards inappropriate wearing of flying clothing! But an ALJ with blunty blue shirt and trousers, whilst contravening the regulations, does look a whole lot better than that paeodphile's pullover.
Red On, Green On
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Between the woods and the water
Age: 24
Posts: 6,487
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Do aircrew in the Army and the RN (two organisations with longer links with aviation than the RAF) get so upset about having to take their growbags off?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Besides, in blues there is always the chance, from behind, or from a distance, of Aircrew being mistaken for somebody unimportant who didn't try hard enough at school.
As for your flying suits, I agree they are a symbol of how hard you have worked to get where you are, no one is arguing with that. But remember, you aint going flying without the rest of us, you aren’t getting fed, paid, talked down safely or your Velcro put on your flying suits for all your badges or even your flying suit given to you in the first place, so get off your high horses and join the blue team.
You can teach a monkey to ride a bike, but have you ever seen one fix it!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Regards the AAC,
Working dress is the order of the day. For ground crew this is CS 95 and for aircrew this is flying suits for a normal working day.
PPE relevant to engineers, MT and apron operations is generally adopted when at work.
Aircrew coveralls are generally peridically maintained and if found worn, POL contaminated or the like they are replaced post haste so it is not considered to be an issue for use in the messes for lunches etc. and until a certain time in the evening in the bar whereas work coveralls might be.
A grown up, mature attitude that appears not to be as devisive as it is in other services......
HEDP
Working dress is the order of the day. For ground crew this is CS 95 and for aircrew this is flying suits for a normal working day.
PPE relevant to engineers, MT and apron operations is generally adopted when at work.
Aircrew coveralls are generally peridically maintained and if found worn, POL contaminated or the like they are replaced post haste so it is not considered to be an issue for use in the messes for lunches etc. and until a certain time in the evening in the bar whereas work coveralls might be.
A grown up, mature attitude that appears not to be as devisive as it is in other services......
HEDP
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Truckie & Co-Pilot: Your appear to be exactly the kind of Moron that makes it to Air Rank with F*CK ALL Leadership Ability or Experience. You are the reason Ground Trades Dislike Aircrew. Your clearly up your own Ar*e with your resplendance.
Wanke*s. Now pop off to clothing stores (ask someone where it is), and get some Blues that fit.
Dallas:
Wanke*s. Now pop off to clothing stores (ask someone where it is), and get some Blues that fit.
Dallas:
Last edited by formertonkaplum; 4th Oct 2008 at 15:00.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 887
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...not everyone in the RAF wants to fly.
You can teach a monkey to ride a bike, but have you ever seen one fix it!
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: England
Age: 52
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blues whilst traveling to work..
I noticed that the new (lack of) initiative states that we are to wear blues whilst traveling to and from work, whether on foot, by car or cycling. The only exception is to be motorcyclists, for obvious reasons. Should make my 15 mile cycle commute interesting, I may be less than presentable after an hour of wind and rain on my iron horse. I suppose I could always change into my flying suit!!!. I wander whether they have any RAF approved free cycle kit in stores...
On a serious note I am not sure that we can be realistically expected to expose our families to additional risk with the terrorist threat at 'the severe end of severe'. Duty of care? Best wear civvies and change into that divisive green bag later then..
If I wanted to wear a uniform in public, it would be No.1s with medals. I would expect to upgraded when traveling on the train or by civ air though, like our American colleagues often are. Or should I expect to be detained at check-in as a security risk. Not very joined-up are we?
A better way for the AFB to spend its time (and money) might be to try to stem the unrelenting exodus of experienced tradesmen and aircrew leaving the Service in their droves right now. This kind of thing does not help.
On a serious note I am not sure that we can be realistically expected to expose our families to additional risk with the terrorist threat at 'the severe end of severe'. Duty of care? Best wear civvies and change into that divisive green bag later then..
If I wanted to wear a uniform in public, it would be No.1s with medals. I would expect to upgraded when traveling on the train or by civ air though, like our American colleagues often are. Or should I expect to be detained at check-in as a security risk. Not very joined-up are we?
A better way for the AFB to spend its time (and money) might be to try to stem the unrelenting exodus of experienced tradesmen and aircrew leaving the Service in their droves right now. This kind of thing does not help.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Midlandshire
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A better way for the AFB to spend its time (and money) might be to try to stem the unrelenting exodus of experienced tradesmen and aircrew leaving the Service in their droves right now. This kind of thing does not help.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Formertonkaplum: Inspired rhetoric, mate! I really am speechless. Keep taking the tablets dude 
'Heads off to clothing stores to get new set of blues and Air Rank braid...
'Heads off to clothing stores to get new set of blues and Air Rank braid...
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Nominally it is a recognition thing. We are not in competition with any other air force but with the Army and Navy and the Treasury. We wish to 'engage' with the public and increase both public support and recruiting. It is all part of CAS's engagement strategy.
Yes, blues have to meet the least stringent requirements - they don't need to be wind resistant, fire retardant, easy care, rip stop and the contract can be awarded to the lowest bidder withou any effect on on'e conscience.
Is it a spur of the moment thing? No, CinC made the announcement 6 months ago so it is surprising it took that long. Publication on Tuesday for imlementation on Wednesday certainly confirms the long term planning and deep thought on its introduction.
As for back sliding, sqn cdrs have been told they will get an adverse comment on their ARs if they don't play the rules.
Yes, blues have to meet the least stringent requirements - they don't need to be wind resistant, fire retardant, easy care, rip stop and the contract can be awarded to the lowest bidder withou any effect on on'e conscience.
Is it a spur of the moment thing? No, CinC made the announcement 6 months ago so it is surprising it took that long. Publication on Tuesday for imlementation on Wednesday certainly confirms the long term planning and deep thought on its introduction.
As for back sliding, sqn cdrs have been told they will get an adverse comment on their ARs if they don't play the rules.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Lowlevel UK
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Has everyone got the message?
Can anyone tell me what happens if you do not comply with this instruction?
A good plate of fish, chips and mushy peas in the mess of a bunker SE of Watford on Friday suggested that this Joint HQ could not have received the message. A look at the senior rogues gallery reminded me that while their three 2*s comprised two helicopter pilots and a Civil Service high flyer, none had ever worn light blue uniform.
More likely is that the RAF have posted some very capable people there so perhaps some common sense was prevailing?
A good plate of fish, chips and mushy peas in the mess of a bunker SE of Watford on Friday suggested that this Joint HQ could not have received the message. A look at the senior rogues gallery reminded me that while their three 2*s comprised two helicopter pilots and a Civil Service high flyer, none had ever worn light blue uniform.
More likely is that the RAF have posted some very capable people there so perhaps some common sense was prevailing?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
non-compliance = mandated adverse comment on ARs.
Same as attitude to sport will raise an advers comment. Ditto equality and diversity.
The number of non-compliance areas that will be commented on is increasing and seems very liberal- socialist-PC driven. Gone are the boxes "drinks regularly and unwisely"
Same as attitude to sport will raise an advers comment. Ditto equality and diversity.
The number of non-compliance areas that will be commented on is increasing and seems very liberal- socialist-PC driven. Gone are the boxes "drinks regularly and unwisely"
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Midlands
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Train as we fight has been replaced now then I guess? Always said fight as we train would be a cheaper option.
As for Blue instead of CS95, what a load of rubbish - we should have got rid of working blue ages ago. We keep being told we are an Expeditionary Force, but how about dress green think green, dress blue think blunt!
Cant really see the reason for the change, the, we are in the RAF we should wear blue line doesnt work for me, last time I looked I wore a blue beret, had Royal Air Force written over my right pocket and a large RAF flash on my right arm.
As for being recognised by the public, I concur with previous comments on being linked to the RAC, at least in green we were confused with a military organisation.
As for Blue instead of CS95, what a load of rubbish - we should have got rid of working blue ages ago. We keep being told we are an Expeditionary Force, but how about dress green think green, dress blue think blunt!
Cant really see the reason for the change, the, we are in the RAF we should wear blue line doesnt work for me, last time I looked I wore a blue beret, had Royal Air Force written over my right pocket and a large RAF flash on my right arm.
As for being recognised by the public, I concur with previous comments on being linked to the RAC, at least in green we were confused with a military organisation.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 868
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can't speak for the AAC, but in the RN growbags are only worn for flying. The rest of the time the aircrew wear the rig of the day, so apart from the size of their watch you'd have no way of telling aviators from non-aviators. Wings are not worn on woolly-pullies, jim-jams etc.
Trying to make out one Services aircrew are any better than the other with regards to this petty issue is just as petty.
Last edited by TheWizard; 4th Oct 2008 at 21:28. Reason: Not understanding Bertie T's reason for posting!! Oops!
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: South Wales
Age: 63
Posts: 729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This thread is brilliant. Nine pages of something so trivial it makes me wonder if a lot of people on this site are more concerned about the amount of salt in a Sainsbury sandwich than going on an operational tour. Get a life some of you.
I must admit that when I was in I never had a problem with aircrew wearing flying suits. They are smart, look professional and show an identity. When on detachment, particularly in places like Nellis and TLP I always wore an aircrew Jacket with my name and Sqn badges. The Sqn Flt Sgt always had ago at me, but hey that’s what grumpy old Flt Sgts do. There is nothing wrong with a bit of pride in what you have achieved or what you belong to.
As for the argument about wearing denims; are you really that bitter and twisted that you would wear (even a LOX Bay Pair) a pair of denims in the bar/Tescos/your own home because the aircrew wear growbags.
And to you aircrew that think they walk on water, never forget that history has proved that most people can fly after a bit of practice. There are a lot more people out there in the world that have worked just as hard as you in school and they chose to do something else. Even ragheads and Welshmen can fly planes, so it can’t be that hard. You are just doing a job that a lot of people could do if they had to or wanted to.
I must admit that when I was in I never had a problem with aircrew wearing flying suits. They are smart, look professional and show an identity. When on detachment, particularly in places like Nellis and TLP I always wore an aircrew Jacket with my name and Sqn badges. The Sqn Flt Sgt always had ago at me, but hey that’s what grumpy old Flt Sgts do. There is nothing wrong with a bit of pride in what you have achieved or what you belong to.
As for the argument about wearing denims; are you really that bitter and twisted that you would wear (even a LOX Bay Pair) a pair of denims in the bar/Tescos/your own home because the aircrew wear growbags.
And to you aircrew that think they walk on water, never forget that history has proved that most people can fly after a bit of practice. There are a lot more people out there in the world that have worked just as hard as you in school and they chose to do something else. Even ragheads and Welshmen can fly planes, so it can’t be that hard. You are just doing a job that a lot of people could do if they had to or wanted to.