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Sir Glen Speaks!

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Sir Glen Speaks!

Old 2nd Sep 2008, 16:30
  #41 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Asia Pacific
Age: 49
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Winco. So you speak for the great majority of today's rank and file in the RAF. I had no idea we were in such distinguished company. JP
He seems to have summed up things for me pretty well. As I am still serving, I guess his points must have a degree of relevance, as opposed to your rose tinted nostalgia. I think it's time you moved onto one of the civil forums. Your vast corporate experience will undoubtably be much sought after there.

I personally think CAS is a New Labour stoolie, who has done absolutely nothing for the RAF other than hasten a great deal of departures.
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Old 2nd Sep 2008, 18:08
  #42 (permalink)  
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First of all, I don't have a particular axe to grind, but a couple of points....

1) Anyone who assumes a position of responsibilty puts themselves in the firing line for people to 'have a pop' at. The fact that they can't always reply just goes with the territory. So in the same way that the England football manager is no doubt criticised in some football forum, CAS can expected to be criticised/praised/commented upon in a forum containing a large number of RAF members, both past and present. IT GOES WITH THE JOB.....

2) How would people define the Sir Glenn years as CAS....? It seems to me in these sort of cases it boils down to one or two things. For example, if we take Prime Ministers, to me Thatcher is Falklands War, reining in the power of the Trade Unions, rampant capitalism, while Blair is Spin and Iraq.... So how would you define the Sir Glenn years as CAS, and would it be for what he has done (the rise of Air Power doctrine?), or what he hasn't done (spoken out in public)....? And previous CASs for comparison......?
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Old 2nd Sep 2008, 18:17
  #43 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2005
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The Sir Glenn years as CAS, hmmm....

In a single word, disappointing.

At a time when the RAF needed someone strong at the reigns (and not just 'strong behind closed doors') the RAF found itself blessed with a bureaucrat, seemingly more concerned with feathering the nest than showing the kind of loyalty to his troops that is expected from them to the hierarchy.

Happily I'm no longer in a position where this puppet is my CEO though I feel for those I've left behind under his care.
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Old 2nd Sep 2008, 19:05
  #44 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: England
Posts: 136
EASY! The Sir Glenn years...

...saw a decrease in number of personnel, morale and capability.

...saw an increase in PVRs, OOAs and number of Air Ranks.

4 out of the above 6 points can be proved using figures available to us all.

Morale and capability are more subjective but I'd happily argue on both counts.
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Old 2nd Sep 2008, 21:53
  #45 (permalink)  
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Pure Pursuit:
Shame is, the chaps in waiting for the job will be just as spineless...You have to be in order to get the job.
Why? Because it's always been like that? Is that how Tescos select their SEOs? I think that cosy system rather went to the wall in WWII. We are once again at war and we need the best people in charge. Just to be really controversial, if the RAF seriously cannot muster someone from within fit for the job, which I very much doubt (and he/she does not need to be a pilot, or even aircrew IMHO), then look outside. Trenchard did the job well enough didn't he? Maybe another airminded senior Army officer would meet the bill. At least their track record for standing up for themselves and their subordinates inspires some confidence. Someone has to knock the Royal Air Force back into shape, and that someone has to be at the top!

Last edited by Chugalug2; 2nd Sep 2008 at 22:06.
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Old 2nd Sep 2008, 22:02
  #46 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
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the ministers choose the Chiefs of Staff and lets face it, they will never select anyone who may be seen as a man or woman who will make waves during their stay in office.

Tescos etc are driven by profit and will always seek out the best man for the job.
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Old 2nd Sep 2008, 22:15
  #47 (permalink)  
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"the ministers choose the Chiefs of Staff". Then change that system! The Government may resent every pound spent on Defence, but then they can see that UK Defence is now poor value for money. The one good thing that Brown did was to cut loose the Bank of England. Maybe it is time to do the same with the selection of the Chiefs. "Yes Men" are no good for anyone, including those they say "Yes" to. The present system has degenerated into a hopeless quagmire. It has to be reformed at MOD and Senior Officer level of all three Armed Services, and that reform must start at the very top.
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Old 2nd Sep 2008, 23:59
  #48 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Shefford, Beds, UK
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CAS Selection

Is that how Tescos select their SEOs?
No and I bet that no other major company/industry would select a CEO based upon his hand/eye co-ordination at an early age either!

If we really need a CAS that is the right person for the job, why must they wear a brevet? (I know, I'll get my coat!)
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Old 3rd Sep 2008, 10:20
  #49 (permalink)  
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If we really need a CAS that is the right person for the job, why must they wear a brevet? (I know, I'll get my coat!)
Well please don't do so on my account ITW, as I quite agree with you. It seems to me that hand eye co-ordination can be a real impediment if it gets in the way of other requirements, like moral courage, empathy, selflessness, you know, all that stuff that real leaders have! If the RAF turns its backs on 9/10ths of its talent to put forward its "candidate" then I suggest its problems start right there. Maybe even a case for some Senior Blanket Stacker wannabe to take them to law over? No, let's not go there again. This is not about human rights, it's about the future or lack of it of the Royal Air Force, it needs sorting before the next Buggins whose turn it is gets the top job.
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Old 3rd Sep 2008, 11:17
  #50 (permalink)  
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My perception, rightly or wrongly in the 70s, was that some pretty unlikely people were getting promoted because they were the only ones who hadn't PVRd or gone at an option point. These promoted people are now 3 or 4 ranks higher and the process continues. Many of those with a bit of get up and go have got up and gone!
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Old 3rd Sep 2008, 12:16
  #51 (permalink)  
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A a not so humble ex-sootie working hard in civvy street, my opinion of CAS is that he would not be fit to answer the phone i reception, let alone a position of trust.
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Old 3rd Sep 2008, 12:31
  #52 (permalink)  
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I quite agree with you, many of the 'good guys' become frustrated and leave for a company that offers proper rewards for their significant efforts.

The guys at the top will always be wearing wings, never going to change and, to be honest, I'm not sure it should! Would a FC, ATC or and engineer do a better job? I doubt it as anybody who gets to the top has 'played the game' and chosen the career path well. People who do that, cannot have the interests of those around them truly at heart.
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Old 3rd Sep 2008, 13:11
  #53 (permalink)  
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Pure Pursuit:
Would a FC, ATC or and engineer do a better job?
Should not your question be could they possibly do a worse job, PP? As to your observation that anyone who gets to the top ipso facto has not the interests of his subordinates truly at heart, I would suggest there are many examples that prove you wrong. Let us be clear though, those who occupy the post of Chief of the Air Staff, or for that matter other Air Officer appointments, should primarily have the interests of the Royal Air Force and the National interest at heart. The bottom line is that the interests of those who serve in the RAF are secondary to those two and in the final analysis sacrificed to them. Military leaders send their subordinates to war, often to die. Their side of that sombre bargain is they fight like hell for the interests of those they so send. That is why Bomber Harris was a great leader. I do not see his like around these days. Time we started looking, everywhere.
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Old 3rd Sep 2008, 14:36
  #54 (permalink)  
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Well I too am currently serving and I too have to agree 100% with Winco on this one, but Ive never had the chance to say my parts or question him like many of us serving as these interviews are always restricted to yes people. I do think we need a Dannet in charge rather than a Torpy , Dannet stood up to the government and said what needed to be said , he got F***** over but he had balls and with that I respect that. The CAS in my view is just saying that the government wants him to say.
Old 3rd Sep 2008, 16:37
  #55 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Longton, Lancs, UK
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Hear what all of you serving guys are saying: do you represent your views, 'forcefully', to your Boss/Stn Cdr? And to AOC on his annual visit? Or am I so out of touch that such representations are pointless? Years ago, the odd senior person listened, but not without risk of potential career damage. Any change?

Last edited by jindabyne; 3rd Sep 2008 at 17:23.
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Old 3rd Sep 2008, 18:15
  #56 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Last time I stood having tea and biscuits with the AOC, I got the distinct impression that everything I said travelled in through the left ear and out through the right. Unfortunately, everybody else came to the same conclusion so no, it wasn't simply because I was being a boring !

P.S. If you haven't already downloaded 'Google Chrome' as a web browser, try it out. It has a spell check; ideal for those late weekend, wine induced posts!
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Old 3rd Sep 2008, 19:13
  #57 (permalink)  
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A certain female AOC once told me that just because you have rank on your shoulders, it does not mean that you have a monopoly of common sense and good ideas!!
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Old 3rd Sep 2008, 19:26
  #58 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
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To be fair to a previous CAS (name escapes me but it'd have been about 1998) when he visited our little TSW det at R850 for a chat during his whirlwind tour of Ulster he had his Warrant Officer take the Flt Lt (who was the Aldergrove based TSW 'chaperon') for a walk elsewhere so that he could have a proper chat with us.

Although it probably didn't do much good in the long run it did make us feel much better.

Unfortunately the last opportunity I had to 'have a word' with one of our glorious leaders was when Browne visited Odious the other year for a grip and grin photo call with a carefully prepared for Q&A session afterwards. Unfortunately he only had pre-prepared answers for the easier questions and anything that veered outside of those questions raised by those defence experts at 'The Sun' resulted in blank looks and "we'll get back to you on that". For instance, service personnel now being classed as 'Key Skill Workers' to enable them to get assistance to buy their own house's, yet only in the SE of England and only if they can guarantee they will be based in (not living in) the SE for at least 5 years! How could a service person guarantee that?

They never did get back to me, even though the Staish, some admin bint from Strike and Browne's assistant all took my name and details of the question raised.

Anyway, I digress.
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Old 3rd Sep 2008, 20:49
  #59 (permalink)  
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Prior to him becoming CAS we had a nice chat on a display line at MPA. Following which his ADC took notes, name etc etc.

Surprisingly ...... nothing was changed.
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Old 5th Sep 2008, 10:10
  #60 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Back in Geordie Land
Posts: 492
I think that, having read some of the comments posted since my last contirbution, I am speaking for the majority of those who still in! Please don't think I'm proud of that, because I am not. On the contrary, I would much prefer to see that we had a CAS who was prepared to tell it as it is, and NOT tell those above him what they want to hear.

Do I take it from your lack of reply to my earlier posting that you have nothing further to add to this debate? I note on another thread that you are one of the few who have 'exceptional' in your flying log book. Well done Sir, I salute you! I think it bears out what I said in my earlier comment about how rank bears no reflection whatsoever to aviating ability eh? Perhaps you would do us all the great honour of advising what rank you were when you left, just to concur that please? Thank you.
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