More Tristar problems?
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I like reading this web site from the fence(to catch up on what the gossip is, as said before only joined because I couldn't see it for free anymore); why is it every time an incident involving movers is aired on this forum. I am in the RAF albeit at a unit where there is only a handfull of us blue jobs.
When I was serving at a flying station I seem to recall some sort of flight saftey flyer appearing every other month. (cant recall what its call Human factors?). This had all the ground incidents for the previous period, usually covering both sides of A4 paper. Why dont those of you who like airing the movers dirty linen put all those incidents on this site for all the old retired guys / journo's to read. Plenty of aircraft put into hangar doors on a friday afternoon.
I have seen lots of ground incidents during my time and 99% of the time time, they stay where they belong, behind the gates of the camp.
Back to my fence again
When I was serving at a flying station I seem to recall some sort of flight saftey flyer appearing every other month. (cant recall what its call Human factors?). This had all the ground incidents for the previous period, usually covering both sides of A4 paper. Why dont those of you who like airing the movers dirty linen put all those incidents on this site for all the old retired guys / journo's to read. Plenty of aircraft put into hangar doors on a friday afternoon.
I have seen lots of ground incidents during my time and 99% of the time time, they stay where they belong, behind the gates of the camp.
Back to my fence again
Responsibility
Where do you see anyone taking responsibility for their actions anymore? It is not in today's culture to admit fault. Where fault is admitted, no action is taken as this would then prevent personnel from owning up to any future mistakes!!
If the movement chap would have had owned up after hitting the wing tip, rather than denying all knowledge, when bits on the floor could be clearly seen ! He should have been honest to own up and not let a criticaly damaged aircraft attempt to get airborne. Luckily 2 passengers informed the cabin crew member of the incident and the aircraft stayed on the bay. The guy obviously felt no guilt and he deserved all he got outside the step inn.
Last edited by mymatetcm; 15th Aug 2008 at 10:32.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: West Yorkshire Zone
Posts: 976
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote
SRENNAPS, no,mistakes from certain trades are never covered up, whilst I was at RAF Valley an aircrat (a beagle I think ) was filled with the wrong fuel, the engines cut out and it crashed shortly after take off. The three people resposible, bowser driver, refueller, and line supervisor, went to jail.
As ground crew, you can be held responsible for your work for up to 5 years...
Reply
I think sending personnel to jail is a Harsh idea.
What would it achieve??
I know they made a mistake, But didn't the Pilot/crew think to check the fuel also??
The driver, refueller, and line supervisor have probably had to live with their mistake for the rest of their lives.
I thought we worked as a team, And cross checked our work.
SRENNAPS, no,mistakes from certain trades are never covered up, whilst I was at RAF Valley an aircrat (a beagle I think ) was filled with the wrong fuel, the engines cut out and it crashed shortly after take off. The three people resposible, bowser driver, refueller, and line supervisor, went to jail.
As ground crew, you can be held responsible for your work for up to 5 years...
Reply
I think sending personnel to jail is a Harsh idea.
What would it achieve??
I know they made a mistake, But didn't the Pilot/crew think to check the fuel also??
The driver, refueller, and line supervisor have probably had to live with their mistake for the rest of their lives.
I thought we worked as a team, And cross checked our work.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wilts
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another dink !!
guys n gals....
lets not forget the 2 pilots that taxied into each other week in UK...
however, why not cut all the bickering n backstabbing.... !!
lets all have a 5min larf over it and put it to bed...!!
also, surely the VASF team in AKT would surely have done a last minute check of the a/c before it taxied out... they certainly did during my time on Movs in AKT.... the guy on comms would always unplug and do a final walk round before giving the flight deck the thumbs up...
I cannot comprehend why the said individual did not own up...!!
In the early 80's at BZZ i dinked the leading edge on a 10, i owned up !! why ?? the thought of that aircraft failing out of the sky with 129 pax plus crew was first and foremost in my mind. that would be to much to live with !!
Although, the damage was not that critical as the engineers fixed it toot sweet...!!
time and time again there is a "bun fight" over things on this thread...!!
why doesnt everybody learn to work together to ensure things like this are kept to a minimum or down to Zero...!!
after all we all have eyes n ears to see a potential hazard developing..
i'm sure we all have been in a situation where with hindsight we may have acted differently.. certainly in my time, i grounded a Puma because i was getting soaked by fuel as it was leaking all over me...
I actually stopped a VC10 from taxiing at AKT, because there was not enough clearance to get through..
from experience no-one has been sacked from making a decision which on the surface may be incorrect, but has actually saved the day... or lives...
lets not forget the 2 pilots that taxied into each other week in UK...
however, why not cut all the bickering n backstabbing.... !!
lets all have a 5min larf over it and put it to bed...!!
also, surely the VASF team in AKT would surely have done a last minute check of the a/c before it taxied out... they certainly did during my time on Movs in AKT.... the guy on comms would always unplug and do a final walk round before giving the flight deck the thumbs up...
I cannot comprehend why the said individual did not own up...!!
In the early 80's at BZZ i dinked the leading edge on a 10, i owned up !! why ?? the thought of that aircraft failing out of the sky with 129 pax plus crew was first and foremost in my mind. that would be to much to live with !!
Although, the damage was not that critical as the engineers fixed it toot sweet...!!
time and time again there is a "bun fight" over things on this thread...!!
why doesnt everybody learn to work together to ensure things like this are kept to a minimum or down to Zero...!!
after all we all have eyes n ears to see a potential hazard developing..
i'm sure we all have been in a situation where with hindsight we may have acted differently.. certainly in my time, i grounded a Puma because i was getting soaked by fuel as it was leaking all over me...
I actually stopped a VC10 from taxiing at AKT, because there was not enough clearance to get through..
from experience no-one has been sacked from making a decision which on the surface may be incorrect, but has actually saved the day... or lives...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: GONE BY 2012
Age: 51
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AIRBRIDGE UPDATE 20 AUG 08
Only one serviceable full trooper fit available TFN - pax being bumped off left right and centre!
Minimum of 5 days delay leaving the UK if you are not not a priority pax!
Same knock-on for guys getting home - not so good if you are due R+R.
Not looking brilliant for the next big changeover - especially as a well known Cambridge based engineering company has alledgely F
d up the first avionics upgrade.
The AT fleet is broken - our lords and masters need to sort this out ASAP.
Hats off to the guys at the Oxfordshire airbase who are trying to get the best out of an antiquated, barely suitable fleet.
Only one serviceable full trooper fit available TFN - pax being bumped off left right and centre!
Minimum of 5 days delay leaving the UK if you are not not a priority pax!
Same knock-on for guys getting home - not so good if you are due R+R.
Not looking brilliant for the next big changeover - especially as a well known Cambridge based engineering company has alledgely F
d up the first avionics upgrade.The AT fleet is broken - our lords and masters need to sort this out ASAP.
Hats off to the guys at the Oxfordshire airbase who are trying to get the best out of an antiquated, barely suitable fleet.
Last edited by Truckkie; 20th Aug 2008 at 14:36. Reason: Spelling!
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Responsibility
Pathetic writings from those who think anyone covers up an incident! There is no excuse for driving a set of steps into the side of an aircraft. Similarly, there is no excuse for landing wheels up! Whoever is at fault, unless there are sound mitigating circumstances, those who fail in their duty need to take responsibility. One thing people these days don't seem to take! We waste money on repairs when we allegedly cannot afford 88 new Typhoons. I know what I would prefer to have!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: WILTS
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Loggie Loader
In answer to your comment No the VASF see off crew do not do a FINAL walk round after unplugging. the GE does a walkround as part of the Turnround, as does the Air engineer, the GE then will do a final walkround before the doors are closed and steps removed, once the engines are started and the Ground Crew cleared off intercom he is expected to appear off to the right/left as instructed so the jet can get going, would you walk round the back of a running RB211?
The main thing from the last incident is honesty! the bloke hit the jet and walked away denying it
Asked if he was "regretfull" about what he had done the answer was, "thats what i said in my statement!"
In answer to your comment No the VASF see off crew do not do a FINAL walk round after unplugging. the GE does a walkround as part of the Turnround, as does the Air engineer, the GE then will do a final walkround before the doors are closed and steps removed, once the engines are started and the Ground Crew cleared off intercom he is expected to appear off to the right/left as instructed so the jet can get going, would you walk round the back of a running RB211?
The main thing from the last incident is honesty! the bloke hit the jet and walked away denying it
Asked if he was "regretfull" about what he had done the answer was, "thats what i said in my statement!"
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wilts
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
last min check
14g's
point taken on the RB211, however, it was the point the marshaller had the "last look" as the a/c left the pan....
as an ex mover, i always did my checks ie... check all freight doors were closed, this then would be cross checked by the ALM and also by the flight deck ensuring all lights were out...
even so, as all trades are involved indirectly with a/c ops, it falls to everyone to show some concern when something "appears not right"
anyone remember the flight safety film with RAFP picking mushrooms....??
or what about Richard O'Sullivan pretending to be a Harrier pilot and forgeting to stow his seat pins i think the story was...
rgds...
point taken on the RB211, however, it was the point the marshaller had the "last look" as the a/c left the pan....
as an ex mover, i always did my checks ie... check all freight doors were closed, this then would be cross checked by the ALM and also by the flight deck ensuring all lights were out...
even so, as all trades are involved indirectly with a/c ops, it falls to everyone to show some concern when something "appears not right"
anyone remember the flight safety film with RAFP picking mushrooms....??
or what about Richard O'Sullivan pretending to be a Harrier pilot and forgeting to stow his seat pins i think the story was...
rgds...
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Age: 70
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
anyone remember the flight safety film with RAFP picking mushrooms....??
or what about Richard O'Sullivan pretending to be a Harrier pilot and forgeting to stow his seat pins i think the story was...
or what about Richard O'Sullivan pretending to be a Harrier pilot and forgeting to stow his seat pins i think the story was...
.Seriously, perhaps we should bring more of that back
.
