Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

More Tristar problems?

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

More Tristar problems?

Old 10th Aug 2008, 23:11
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 19,229
BEagle


In my 5000+ hours on the VC10, no-one ever drove anything into the aeroplane.

Yet over the last few years, there seem to have been some inexcusable ground incidents. It's not as though the TriStar is an infrequent visitor to Akrotiri, so is there a systemic problem - or was this a 'one-off'?

When RAF AT is at such a premium, such incidents are particularly unacceptable.

Whoever causes them.
So the VC 10 that went to Newcastle many many moons ago and had a bog truck go through the back end does not count then? OR the VC10 that went up to replace it (after the first flew back to roost at Brize below 10,000 ft and unpressurised) which was also attacked by the same person in the same place with another bog truck, I take it they do not count then?........

Or the one after a certain crewman decided to push some steps under the fuselage so he could get in the freight bay whilst refuelling went on and I had to offload 35,000 lb of fuel to get them back out? does that not count either?

Or the tow bar that went throught the nose of a VIP?

Should I go on?
NutLoose is online now  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 06:24
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,852
Sorry, I should have said that during 'my' 5000+, no-one drove anything into 'my' aeroplane - but I thought that was sufficiently implicit.

If SOPs are not being followed, supervisors' heads might well roll.....
BEagle is online now  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 06:30
  #23 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 85
Arthur R,

Sorry, but you are wrong re the Bassett crash at Valley. Nobody was imprisoned as a result. The S.A.C liney who refuelled the aircraft engaged a civil barrister for his defence at the CM. He was acquitted as I recall as the barrister exposed what we now call systemic failure...on a large scale. I was there at the time and remember the incident well.
Krystal n chips is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 06:55
  #24 (permalink)  
Just another erk
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Germany
Age: 74
Posts: 280
Krystal n chips, I was there at the same time, but over the years the memory fades, perhaps it was the talk at the time that they could go to prison. If I remember rightly wasn't the co on the aircraft?
ArthurR is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 07:12
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: GONE BY 2012
Age: 48
Posts: 151
Thread drift fellas

More importantly if these 2 Tristars are grounded for any lenght of time how are we going to maintain the airbridge?

What about the Telic/Herrick RIPs and the scheduled sorties?

Not a hope of the C130 fleet being able to assist - it's broken

Civil charter won't get you into theatre - British personnel on non-DAS equipped aircraft - no-one in their right mind would sign that off

Can't wait for next week's trip to the sandpit (again)
Truckkie is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 07:56
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,852
With the Trial Installation of the TriStar cockpit upgrade not due out of the hangar until 2009 and with FSTA due to enter service from 2011, how long will the expensively modified TriStars actually remain in service?

I do hope that it'll prove to be 22M well spent.........

Is the simulator also being modified?
BEagle is online now  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 08:07
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: England
Posts: 99
skaterboi:

If there's any doubt when I taxi my aircraft, I get wing walkers out to give me a thumbs up for good clearance. Same should apply here. There's simply no excuse for driving things into a parked aircraft.

Funny...reminds me of the time I watched a RAF C17 being 'wing-walked' into the tail of an EA6 at El Centro a few years back...sure the loadie had signalled the handling pilot to stop, but the oh so gentle application of brakes was too...oh so gentle!

El_Presidente is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 09:03
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: england
Posts: 613
Which reminds me of the time where the opsies told the movers that a set of steps were a little close to the taxiway at a certain Afghan international airport. Suitable ignored, an Antonov then knocked the steps back into line. Chap had to stay back a couple of days to carry out a unit inquiry.

That may have been the same time that the movers didn't think it necessary to clear all their crap from a dispersal because helicopters were only ground taxying and therefore there was no downdraft.
Lurking123 is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 11:36
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Exiled in England
Age: 45
Posts: 1,016
So, Timmy was parked on the pan. Guilty person responsible moved said steps into stationary aircraft.

Q1. How many people were on the team moving the steps?

Q2. What speed were said steps travelling at?

Q3. Where the F&K was the supervision?

At a time when all forces are beyond overstretch who decided that this was an ok corner to cut? What next, self signing, self supervising, non independant inspection ejection seat work?? Where I work there are certain tasks that need a certain number of people, not enough people then task not done.

There is never enough time or man power to do it right first time but we always manage to find the time and manpower to f$"king fix it. And yes, I have made a mistake or two. It's at that time the old integrity principal comes out to play. I.E. stop and report it truthfully, man up and take your punishment like a liney.
cornish-stormrider is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 11:59
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Puken
Posts: 356
BEags

22m on the WHOLE fleet?

Bargain compared to the cost of a SINGLE VC10 major.

At least there'll be a return as the 3* will still be here in 2014+. 2011? Don't belive the MoD glossies!
Farfrompuken is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 12:22
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,852
I wouldn't disagree with that - I just hope that the idiot beancounters don't decide to scrap the TriStars before, ooh, about 2020??
BEagle is online now  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 12:56
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Not Really In Scotland
Posts: 6
SRENNAPS,

Whilst I think it's laudible of you to defend our Movements Colleagues out here, I have to say that they are in fact culpable. To put it another way, they biffed up. A silly avoidable mistake. Made more annoying by the fact that despite all that has been achieved in support of the Airbridge, all anyone will remember now is that Akrotiri bent a Tristar. Can't say anymore as I may attract unwanted attention.
Wokka Tech is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 13:31
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Manila Philippines
Posts: 77
HAHA Muppets again...I can remember many incidents of movers ground attack on a T* strange thing was nothing ever happened to them...
L1011GE is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 13:43
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In the wing
Posts: 20
As a TriStar frequent flyer I am normally the first one to criticise the Movements Empire, however, on this occasion I must support them. AKT movements have increased by 50% but unfortunately the movements team there still have the same number of personnel, a number which is woefully too few for the increase in tasking. Fatigue manifests itself in various ways; a TriStar being bent is just one way. Let us stop pointing the finger at any one individual or section. Let us start learning from our mistakes so that next time we can avoid this from happening again. Let us all remember that the people that ultimately lose out are the people in theatre. But most importantly, the airbridge may be creaking but because of the hard work of a lot of people at BZN and AKT (including the the other chaps across the road) the airbridge is still open.
ACSfirstfail is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 14:12
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Manila Philippines
Posts: 77
see above post....they have hit aircraft enough times to learn not to do it.

If a techie drives anywhere near an aircraft he needs a marshaler, even if he is driving the slow Grove to clean the windscreens.

Eng wing orders dictate a marshaller is required for all movements around an aircraft.

There is no excuse..and fatigue is not a valid excuse..
L1011GE is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 15:24
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: england
Posts: 613
I agree. It is easy to get complacent working around aircraft and I have seen a number of 'specialists' persistently over-assess their own abilities.
Lurking123 is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 15:29
  #37 (permalink)  
Hellbound
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blighty
Posts: 554
There is no excuse..and fatigue is not a valid excuse..
Disagree completely, it totally depends on the strength of your will to stand up and say you are too tired to do something. One's willingness to do that depends on lots of things; quality of management/leadership above you, importance of the task, awareness of tiredness.

I remember standing alone on a pan with the sun coming up taking in the fact that one of my techies had just written off a refuelling rig and seriously damaged a civvie airliner. Circumstances (op tempo, manning levels, working hours and importance of task) were such that it was dealt with, he never heard a thing about it and neither should he.

We don't know the circumstances so let the subsequent investigation decide if there is culpability.
South Bound is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 16:18
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,631
Thumbs up Bravo!!

Disagree completely, it totally depends on the strength of your will to stand up and say you are too tired to do something. One's willingness to do that depends on lots of things; quality of management/leadership above you, importance of the task, awareness of tiredness.

I remember standing alone on a pan with the sun coming up taking in the fact that one of my techies had just written off a refuelling rig and seriously damaged a civvie airliner. Circumstances (op tempo, manning levels, working hours and importance of task) were such that it was dealt with, he never heard a thing about it and neither should he.

We don't know the circumstances so let the subsequent investigation decide if there is culpability.

glad rag is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 17:36
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: gloucester
Posts: 95
Heard C-17s are being drafted in as a last resort .. pax will be inbound instead of ammo! work that one out!!!
collbar is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2008, 17:51
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Guess
Posts: 112
L1011GE

Don't know what part of BZZ you work at but I've never seen a teccie marshaling any vehicle of theirs near a T* or VC10. And be careful of your reply because I know they have been hit, and not just by movers or ASMT !

Mistakes happen in all walks of life, it's just one of those things. Despite all your bickering I suggest you look at the various pamphlets floating around detailing recent aircraft mishaps. Very few mover related, a lot more teccie related. But you don't see us whinging.

MM
Mobile Muppet is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.