Where will the next Chief come from?
Sliding back into the history:
Trenchard has no claim to being the father of the RFC, that's most definitely Henderson. Henderson had written about the potential of aerial reconnaissance in 1907 when he was Director of Military Training, sat on the sub-cttee of the CID which led to the creation of the RFC and had been involved in the development of military aviation since 1909 when that committee had been set up. He was the first GOC RFC as well as being DGMA, a post he held until the creation of the RAF.
Trenchard always disclaimed the title of 'Father of the RAF' and argued that Henderson deserved it - not least because Henderson acted as Smut's chief advisor and wrote possibly the most influential memo that Smuts recieved during Smuts' inquiry, in which he called for the creation of a separate air service.
Trenchard has no claim to being the father of the RFC, that's most definitely Henderson. Henderson had written about the potential of aerial reconnaissance in 1907 when he was Director of Military Training, sat on the sub-cttee of the CID which led to the creation of the RFC and had been involved in the development of military aviation since 1909 when that committee had been set up. He was the first GOC RFC as well as being DGMA, a post he held until the creation of the RAF.
Trenchard always disclaimed the title of 'Father of the RAF' and argued that Henderson deserved it - not least because Henderson acted as Smut's chief advisor and wrote possibly the most influential memo that Smuts recieved during Smuts' inquiry, in which he called for the creation of a separate air service.
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Tourist: Me too!
The job needs someone with the cojones to stand up to this half-ar*ed place-holding self-serving administration - I could not bring myself to use the word "government".
The job needs someone with the cojones to stand up to this half-ar*ed place-holding self-serving administration - I could not bring myself to use the word "government".
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Points taken Climebear, but at least he claimed paternity, and saw the offspring through its infancy. As to being...
Quote:
doctrinally blinkered and tied to the primacy of strategic bombing (the bomber will always get through).... This focus was often at the expense of other elements of air power - in particular fighter development.
Enough of our bombers did get through in the ensuing nastiness to contribute greatly to final victory, though at awful cost to all concerned. Contrast that to being doctrinally blinkered to the primacy of fighters...at the expense of other elements of airpower- in particular AT and RW, as if!
Quote:
doctrinally blinkered and tied to the primacy of strategic bombing (the bomber will always get through).... This focus was often at the expense of other elements of air power - in particular fighter development.
Enough of our bombers did get through in the ensuing nastiness to contribute greatly to final victory, though at awful cost to all concerned. Contrast that to being doctrinally blinkered to the primacy of fighters...at the expense of other elements of airpower- in particular AT and RW, as if!
As for bombers getting through in the end (of WW2) the point was the aspiration of their Airships in the inter-war period greatly outweighed the actual capability. It took several years of expensive (in terms of very brave aircrew) experimentation before air power could get close to some of its prewar proficies for stratigic bombing - even then the actual effect is the subject of significant debate (apart from the fact that air was the only was the UK took the offensive against the axis powers in the first 3 years of the war).
The point about this, and the wider point about becoming fixated on one element of air power at the expense of others, is very well explore in Tami Davis Biddle's excellent book: Rhetoric and Reality in Air Warfare: The Evolution of British and American Ideas about Strategic Bombing, 1914-1945.
Cunning Artificer
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How many brats wondered why the Gymnasium at Halton was called the Henderson Gymnasium?
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Next CAS/CDS
If you're looking for nominations, David Walker has firm ideas about leadership and learning from history.
Yes, I know he's a Harrier mate, but he impresses nonetheless....
Yes, I know he's a Harrier mate, but he impresses nonetheless....
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Why does it have to be a serviceman? Why not a Civil servant? and to be honest....who cares? What would happen if we abolished the post? CDS is purely a decorative and ceremonial post designed to give some crusty old git an extra couple of years before he reaches his pension.....How about we save the money and spend it on some new flying boots ?
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Go on then izod, tell us who Groves was...
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Air Commodore Robert Marsland Groves CB DSO AFC RAF
From An Air of Authority - A History of RAF Organisation:
Groves gained his RAeC Certificate, No 969, on 15 November 1914 and he was an early advocate in the use of aeroplanes from ships rather than seaplanes, resulting in experiments at Rosyth aboard HMS Yarmouth. A leading wireless expert, he was one of the first officers allocated to the establishment of the new Air Ministry and as such he represented the embryo ministry at the early discussions where the plans for the merging of the two air services were drawn up. He was killed, together with Flying Officer Clarence Bird, in a flying accident whilst serving in Egypt, his family later presenting a sum of money to be used for providing memorial prizes for RAF personnel. These consisted of a Flying Prize to be awarded to the best all round pilot at the RAF College, each half year, a Navigation Prize for officers attending the course at Calshot, a Research Prize, to be awarded to personnel of any rank for the best work of a technological or scientific nature and four Essay Prizes.
Aircraft from ships, eh? Hmm... We could do with him back, then. Are the prizes still awarded, I wonder?
Groves gained his RAeC Certificate, No 969, on 15 November 1914 and he was an early advocate in the use of aeroplanes from ships rather than seaplanes, resulting in experiments at Rosyth aboard HMS Yarmouth. A leading wireless expert, he was one of the first officers allocated to the establishment of the new Air Ministry and as such he represented the embryo ministry at the early discussions where the plans for the merging of the two air services were drawn up. He was killed, together with Flying Officer Clarence Bird, in a flying accident whilst serving in Egypt, his family later presenting a sum of money to be used for providing memorial prizes for RAF personnel. These consisted of a Flying Prize to be awarded to the best all round pilot at the RAF College, each half year, a Navigation Prize for officers attending the course at Calshot, a Research Prize, to be awarded to personnel of any rank for the best work of a technological or scientific nature and four Essay Prizes.
Aircraft from ships, eh? Hmm... We could do with him back, then. Are the prizes still awarded, I wonder?
OK, given that Trenchard neither fathered or invented the RAF I still stand by my proposition that the RAF is in desperate need of a second Trenchard to see it safely into its next century as the next CAS. That in turn is a response to the OP's question as to who from a very restricted list of candidates should fulfil that role. I am sure that we are all very appreciative of the historians' inputs, but the problem is urgent and immediate. The RAF, or at least its higher command, is bust and needs urgent fixing. Do we know a man who knows?
Spheroid - your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek, I hope! I (don't) look forward to the day that the wreaths layed at the Cenotaph are placed by CEO UKAF, who happens to serve on the boards of half-a-dozen other worthy bodies, is overweight and wears an off-the-peg suit and rubber soled shoes. Arguably we are the only Department of State where the CE is a specialist (Dept of Health is not run by a Doctor, the FCO not by a diplomat etc), but given our unique role in society, I wouldn't want it any other way!
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Air Commodore Edward Maitland CMG DSO AFC DFM (US) FRGS
He served in all three services too. truly a purple chap.
He served in all three services too. truly a purple chap.
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Okay guys, thanks for the history lesson 
but are there actually any LIVING candidates for the job?
By the way, the next CJO has been announced as being the current CDI, AM Peach (Navigator) -
but are there actually any LIVING candidates for the job?By the way, the next CJO has been announced as being the current CDI, AM Peach (Navigator) -
Last edited by NUFC1892; 17th Jul 2008 at 10:32.
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If you really want to vote for Dannatt, you can!
Petition to: support the appointment of General Sir Richard Dannatt as the next Chief of the Defence Staff.
Petition to: support the appointment of General Sir Richard Dannatt as the next Chief of the Defence Staff.
By the way, the next CJO has been announced as being the current CDI, AM Peach (Navigator)
Do his dates as CJO co-incide with Stirrat's extension to 2011? Maybe there is a current candidate for next CDS - although I'm sure back-back light blue would cause a few harrumphs amongst the other services.
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Peach is undoubtedly one of the stars of the current firmament, a very capable operator who understands his stuff and doesn't take too many prisoners.
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I heard it was some chap called Baldrick - proposed by a Capt Blackadder and seconded by a General Melchett
Apparently he makes good Cappuccino with extra cream
Should go down well in Main Building
Apparently he makes good Cappuccino with extra cream
Should go down well in Main Building