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RAAF Flight Screening Programme

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RAAF Flight Screening Programme

Old 27th Mar 2010, 03:23
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That may be, but 92cm equates to a very small person.
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Old 29th Mar 2010, 10:54
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Flight Screening Program and aircraft type

Great forum.
I have several questions I hope someone can answer for me please:

1. The ADF site says the program is divided into both basic and advanced courses for flight screening. Do you do one or the other and how is this calculated?

2. I am interested to find out the type of aircraft used for the flight screening at Tamworth? Do they use the CT-4, or the CAP-10 or both? Do they use one for the basic and one for the advanced course etc?

Any responses will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
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Old 29th Mar 2010, 11:25
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Great forum.
I have several questions I hope someone can answer for me please:

1. The ADF site says the program is divided into both basic and advanced courses for flight screening. Do you do one or the other and how is this calculated?

2. I am interested to find out the type of aircraft used for the flight screening at Tamworth? Do they use the CT-4, or the CAP-10 or both? Do they use one for the basic and one for the advanced course etc?

Any responses will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Hope these answers help ya mate

1. Basically you'll be assigned a course depending on how many civilian flying hours you have. Last time I checked the split was at around the 40 hour mark (May have changed). The main differences in the two are mainly focused around the aerobatics component of the course. People with fewer hours are hardly expected to be able to perform "advanced" aerobatic sequences compared to someone who is already able to demonstrate a healthy knowledge of General Flying. With that said there are other minor differences in the rate of progress for the advanced course.

2. You will fly both CAP-10 and CT-4. The first component of the course is centered around general flying, starting from the basic straight and level flying, moving all the way into circuits. This is achieved on the CT-4. The second part of the course is focused around aerobatic flying. The aim is being able to demonstrate hand/foot/eye co-ordination. Obviously flawless aerobatics aren't the main aim of the course, but a rate of learning that meets the ADF's requirements for training.

Hope it helps you out and all the best.

Edited: Me fail english? Thats unpossible
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Old 29th Mar 2010, 13:23
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Hey all,

I've read through the thread and can't seem to find the answer to this one...

Going by the schedule, it seems there are two flight screenings happening at certain times....is this correct?

Just wondering because I would have thought PSA would have at least a days break from applicants to prepare for the next group...I guess not though.
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Old 29th Mar 2010, 13:57
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I must be bored because i'm still awake and posting on this forum

The_Hat_Guy:

PSA run 2 week flight screening courses at staggered intervals. Meaning they'll start one course and a week later start another one. They've got pretty good support staff there doing the day to day admin side of things whilst the QFI's focus on the pilot training. They have enough staff to run two courses concurrently and all the paper work is done back of house.

Ultimately its not that a big of a process. A QFI will score you on your flight according to how well you went (The score is usually a measurement based on an accepted base level. If you score well then you're meeting the average) and then at the end of the fortnight sit down with the OSB and discuss your results in a round table discussion.

With the amount of QFI's and support staff they have working for every course the process is not that difficult or long.

Having said that, they do take time off with courses to catch up on paper work/individual currencies.
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Old 29th Mar 2010, 20:51
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Thanks Spacemantan for your answers I really appreciate it.

So just to clarify the last part. Even if your in the advanced course (due to having civilian hours, which I do) you will still do the first part in a ct-4 and then do the second part in a cap 10 and do more advanced aerobatics for that second section?

thanks again
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Old 29th Mar 2010, 22:14
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Ultimately yes. The main difference from memory is that the advanced course will do less time in the CT-4 doing basic GF compared to the basic course. Both courses will do aerobatics but the advanced course will learn a few extra ones mainly because they are already profficient with the basic parts of GF
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Old 30th Mar 2010, 02:29
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Thanks again Spacemantan
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Old 30th Mar 2010, 09:26
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Thanks space, thought so just thought I would check. I would imagine flying everyday with a bunch of rookies would get a bit tedious
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Old 30th Mar 2010, 10:26
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Aptitude testing

Hoping someone can answer my questions regarding aptitude testing at the YOU day.

I know some aptitude tests (ones I have found online) include reading data from tables and graphs but the "guide to aptitude testing for joining the ADF" sample questions dont show any of this style. Can some one please tell me if they test this graph and table stuff or not please?

Also, the "guide" says that there are additonal tests to general ability and mathematical ability for pilots-"testing for pilot","testing for officer entry". Are these tests the personallity type or is it more aptitude or just the wombat style (keep ball in square hand eye stuff) tests?

Thanks again and keep up this great thread (hope one day I will be the one answering the questions...hehe)
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Old 30th Mar 2010, 10:45
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Hey Jo

YOU session is pretty basic. If you can do alright at school you should be fine. It's like an IQ test eg. They give you a word, you pick A,B,C or D depending on which one is similar or the opposite etc. Basic maths like X buys 6 lollies at 25c each, gives Y amount, how much change. The hardest maths on there wasn't too taxing (think it was pythagoras theorem), they're not trying to see if you can only get the hard ones right, so just plug away at them all, skip and come back to any if you need to. The guide they give you is pretty spot on, and I didn't have any table/graph questions from memory.
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Old 30th Mar 2010, 10:58
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Cheers oneflewnorth, I am greatful for your help. Well in that case I wont stress too hard but just keep nutting away at practice questions of the styles discussed by your self (and the info given by adf).

Thanks again.
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Old 3rd Apr 2010, 00:40
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I hear Raaf offers are out mid April/May
G'day cj0203, any idea of other offer dates or if this a regular time? Just trying to get an idea of how many intakes there are a year.
Thanks mate.
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Old 3rd Apr 2010, 00:52
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I have it on good authority that the selection dates are a tad later than specified above. No idea how many per year, but I'm interested to know. I thought there would probably be two per year for RAAF DEO and one for ADFA.
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Old 3rd Apr 2010, 01:06
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I have it on good authority that the selection dates are a tad later than specified above. No idea how many per year, but I'm interested to know. I thought there would probably be two per year for RAAF DEO and one for ADFA
Lets say an average course number of about 24 at BFTS with a new RAAF/RAN Alpha course every 12 weeks... Thats 4 courses a year which means about 96 people, plus whatever number of RAAF/RAN ended up with the primarily army Bravo courses. So lets go with something like 120 people? I'm gonna go with about half ADFA half DEO (I can't back those numbers up so don't get upset if i'm wrong). That gets reduced to 49 - 65 a year at the end of the sausage factory through various reasons... Mostly people failing.

The RAAF will always intake the same amount of people and if the requirement for people is less than usual they'll just scrub more to only get the cream of the crop but the bare minimum is 49. For DEO they'll usually intake in October, April with a smattering of people in between. Its not odd to have OTS courses with 20+ pilot candidates on it, nor is it odd to have courses with only 1 or 2.

Problem at the moment is demand is quite small within the ADF. There isn't the healthy speparation that used to happen so unfortunately there are too many O3 O4's clogging up the shute.

Hope thats some usefull information for ya. Fresh from Defence Recruiting and OTS/BFTS/2FTS

Edited: IOT add extra info and fix the numbers
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Old 3rd Apr 2010, 04:09
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That sounds like a seriously flawed statement. Recruiting have just told me that if there are less slots, they weed more people out at their end through minimum education requirements/medicals/interviews etc. Surely if you are meeting the requirements/standards during flight training, they shouldn't be scrubbing you?
Numbers at BFTS now are exactly the same they have been for the past few years... But the requirement for pilots has decreased... It would seem that my above statement is correct but I could be wrong.

In 2007, a BFTS course made it through with zero scrubbings and the average pass out rate was rather low. Recently BFTS courses have been decimated to the extent where in some cases fewer than half the original course make it to 2FTS. Which once again adds creedence to my previous statement. And once again I could be wrong, could be that the standard of people going through BFTS has declined.

Could be very many different factors involved.

But the intake has been rather steady for a while now, yet the output has dropped because the services don't need as many pilots.

DFR don't adjust their requirements either. Medical standards, Aptitude testing and interviews have always remained the way they are. It is the respective Directorate of Personnel and PSA's responsibility to decide how many people go on to commence pilot training. DFR just provide the meat at the beginning of the chain and the above agencies are responsible for quality control (Continuing with the sausage factory metaphore)

WRT Sandunes post: Absolutely 100% correct. Times have changed from those days but that doesn't mean the services can't change their standards in order to adjust the output. Happens all the time depending on demand.
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Old 3rd Apr 2010, 07:16
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That statement is no longer on their website, and that unfortunately, is holding me up right now. Last year the PSA said I met the minimum educational requirements. This year DFR are questioning whether or not I do, as policy "may have changed". Why has it changed? They have the same amount of candidates applying, but less positions to fill.
Fair enough question, and i'll be honest... my knowledge on the inner workings of DFR is not total. As to why they have changed the minimum requirements.. I cannot answer that. It may be because, as you've stated, they're trying to lower input from their end. But from my knowledge of DFR, the medical/fitness/aptitude requirements are determined by the relevant Personnel agencies of the ADF. Ultimately means DFR have no say... They just provide the means for testing/recruiting.

I suppose it is a little nitpicky of me to point that out.

From my experience though, There are just as many pilot candidates going through the system as there ever have been, but the output has been lowered somewhat.

I agree with some of what you've said, but not all of it. However, I concede that you know more about it than I do.
Please don't mistake my posts as an attack on you or your knowledge.... I will readily admit that I don't have all the answers or knowledge on how DFR/PSA/ADF work things out. All I do know is that it is a big issue within the ADF pilot community... And my knowledge stems from that... I'm just trying to help
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Old 3rd Apr 2010, 09:56
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My experience with DFR was a long time ago, when they had JOES days and the like... It was incredibly painful.

The new DFR process is alot less painful but none the less is definately not perfect. I agree wholeheartedly that representation from the pilot community is very lacking at DFR and that none truths are definately the norm. Unfortunately the NCO/SNCO's represent the more popular jobs in the ADF (Infantry, Clerks, Logistical persons etc etc). There are a few dedicated staff out there who genuinly enjoy their position and will do anything for applicants. Unfortunately posting cycles means it can be very random at times... Maybe the ADF should introduce recruiter as a permanent position?

Don't get me started on Case Managers...

The problem at the moment is the civilian/defence relationship I think. The military generally speaking have a general knowledge about the ADF, but don't want to be case managers... Case managers don't want/need to know the general knowledge about the ADF, all they care about is processing paper work. Its a bit of a problem.

The ADF want to fix this problem but contractually speaking they're hands are tied.

Personally... I wish you all the best in your application and the best advice I can give you is to constantly annoy your case manager by following up your application. The squeaky wheel gets the grease... I hope this post prompts a flood of phone calls to Case managers
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Old 3rd Apr 2010, 10:15
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Just to put a stop to something here.
Once your at BFTS/2FTS, you will pass/fail on the standard required.
How many pilots the Raaf requires has nothing to do with you passing/failing once your in the system.
It might just mean you have to wait longer for a conversion off course, but by then who cares!
You make the grade, you pass the course, The grading doesn't change
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Old 3rd Apr 2010, 10:22
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ozbiggles
Pilot intake for the ADF was increased mid last decade to get ready for the new aircraft that were supposed to be delivered. The "required" output was also changed to reflect this. However, recently the output has been decreased but intake the same.

Are you saying that the quality of pilot coming through BFTS and 2FTS has decreased? If so do you think its a reflection of the reduction in hours students get during training?

This is in no way an attack on you, I've been hearing quite differently from you for a while now and want to know your honest opinion.
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