RAAF Flight Screening Programme

[L J R]

Be yourself, don't do stress, be confident, don't bullsh*iyt, wear clean strides, comb your hair, manage your time in exams, know what makes your future employer tick.

[Mark_1990]

Thanks for the advice mate ... but i was kind of looking for something along the lines of the level of difficulty that these upcoming tests contain. Would anyone know if they are much harder than the ones given out on JOES day?

[Ritero]

Hey Mark,

From what I've read, there are some more specific mathematics kind of tests that relate to aircraft, calculating range etc. It's beneficial to get an idea of thinking in terms of lb of fuel, nautical miles, knots etc.

i.e.

You have 620lb of fuel on board and a current fuel flow of 96lb/hr. You are 96nm from your destination and travelling at 84 knots ground speed. How much fuel will you have left when you reach your destination?

[Mark_1990]

THANX for the help guys. I done my battery of tests today in my pilot specific testing ..... got through . The recruiter said i got ticks in all 6 of the sections required so im ok to go on to complete my defence and psyc interview as well as my medical. Any pointers for the next stage ?

Regards,

Mark

[Ritero]

Nice work. Hope to be joining ya soon!

For the psyc and defence interviews, take LJR's advice above.

Don't stress. Don't lie. Be yourself. Be honest.

And yes, I'm aware "don't lie" and "be honest" mean the same thing, intended to reiterate the point.

[Mark_1990]

So guys still waiting for my assessment day to be booked, trying to stay calm. Just a few questions ...... would anyone be able to tell me the hardest part of the selection process, i don't mean to overly confident, but is the hardest part the testing side of things?

The other question is regarding the phase in which i would be placed into (basic or advanced). See i've completed 21.4 hours of dual flying the cessna 172, and i know from what i've read the cut-off from which one will be placed into the advanced phase is around 20 hours. The problem is however, that i have not flown in about 1 year and 2 months ..... So could anyone tell me if i'd be placed into the basic or advanced phase?

Regards,

Mark

[MudRat_02]

RAAF Pilot Spec Testing

Hi all,
First off, thanks to everyone that has posted on previous threads similar to this, I found the information invaluable! Anyway, I need help with the spec test, heres what has happened so far:
I wanted to apply for RAAF pilot in yr12 for a possible appointment the following year at ADFA. My year 12 results were enviable, with very strong scores in maths, chemistry, english and especially physics. I thought at the time it would be a good idea to get some experience in that environment, so I applied for the reserves (keeping in mind that this is also something I could do while at school!). Anyway, the defence recruiter at JOES day suggested I apply for pilot right then and there, and after some persuasion I agreed even though I hadn't prepared. Well, apparently my scores at JOES were very good, and soon enough I was booked into a Pilot Spec Testing day.

This is when the dream went a bit by the wayside. I didn't pass first up unfortunately, but I was told I can keep trying if I want. So next year I tried again with the same result and only now did they tell me, contrary to what I had been previously told, that I only had three strikes on this one (I had all the time in the world, so I figured it wouldn't matter butting my head against the brick wall that is the spec testing day a few times! ). I was also told that my scores were very strong all round - except for the instrument reading one.

I had previously been told that the IR test was all about accuracy, so as you can imagine, I was quite cautious so as to get my answers right (only to find out later that its a speed test!). Anyway, I took the year to travel Europe by myself, working holiday in England .ect to get some life experience into me before I faced the coming year (2008). My last test was a year ago, and I can now head in whenever I want - but this is my last attempt. As far as I'm concerned, instrument reading is not really an innate skill and can certainly be improved upon. Given this, and considering I scored well all round otherwise, theres no way I'm not going back a third time for the job that I have dreamed about since I was a kid. There is nothing I wouldn't do to get this job - it's the first thing I think about every morning and its on my mind when I go to sleep at night to be honest. I have heard plenty of people have made it in on their third go, so I haven't given up.

Is there anyone out there that has been in a similar predicament, has passed/taken the test before, or anyone that is/has worked closely with anyone in a profession and could offer any good advice as to what I can do here? Clearly the IR is the test I need to improve on, but how to do that best is anyone's guess. My stance here is that it would be foolish to rush in right now without improving in every way I can first. If anyone has any advice at all for me on any part of the assesment don't hold back - any advice, criticism, suggestions or encouragement would be greatly appreciated. I'm here to learn, so cut loose! Thanks in advance for any help, as I said before, you've all be a great help so far (its a pity I never looked around on the net before taking the tests before!! ...Oh, and sorry about the long post ).

- Samuel

[Trojan1981]

Mudrat,

I have no idea why you failed. Maths is not my strong point, in fact I had not even completed year twelve when I passed in 2002.

You sound far more intelligent and educated than myself. My advice would be to take your time before sitting the tests again. I know people who didn't start ADF pilots courses until their late 20s-early 30s so you have plenty of time, no matter what they tell you. You could even finish your degree before applying again.

There are a few good books around to help you with the individual tests. I have one called 'Military Flight Aptitude Tests' that is availlable from Concept Aviation Supplies in Bankstown.

http://www.conceptaviation.com.au/

I have also seen another publication and even a short course advertised in 'Australian Aviation' magazine(I think it's called 'So you want to be a pilot').

Think about if you really want it before you sign on the dotted line. If you fail BFTS you may find yourself stuck in the RAAF for a long time, flying a desk or digging gunpits. Plenty of oportunities exist outside defence if you want to fly but if you do choose to go for it again, give yourself the best possible chance.

[MudRat_02]

Why was my thread moved to this one? I need RAAF - Royal AUSTRALIAN Air Force help. This RAF thread at best has very, very vague similarities to what I need. I would appreciate it if it were moved back, and not left in a thread frequented by "OASC Candidates and wannabes" and other RAF related personnel.
Not that I hold anything against the RAF, but i'd just like some RAAF specific advice . Thanks

[Ritero]

Well, I passed pilot specific testing, which was the part I was most stressed about really. Some bits of it were pretty hard but I scored well enough obviously. The advice I would give to you guys who go through it is never give up, keep working at it, you may feel like you have done terribly and surprise yourself.

I have assessment day coming up shortly with interview and psych, looking forward to it. Then it's just FSP and OSB, the hardest part of which will be actually getting 2 weeks off work to go to FSP

[Octane]

RAAF stuff

Hello Ritero,

Congratulations so far!
I've just read your first post months too late, anyway I'd already come up with some comments so I'll send them off anyway. Maybe useful for others...

First off, I've been there and done it all, sailed through the lot but failed the final ophthalmological examination (long story..)

Not in any particular order...

1.Don't be intimidated by the recruiting Sergeant.

2. Tell the truth. These people are trained to tell if you're lying. Example, I was asked if I'd smoked dope. I said yes cos I knew I'd look guilty as hell if I denied it. Asked to explain, I replied I'd tried it at Uni but didn't like it (bit like Bill, but I inhaled..) and moved on etc. That was fine with them.

3. Apptitude tests:
Basic mathematical skills,science knowledge particularly Physics, stuff lfrom years 10/11 (form 4, 5 for the British and Kiwi folks). English obviously. I actually failed year 12 English (lack of interest) but got thru the RAAF stuff no probs. (I have a B.Sc. which prob. helped..)

4. Pshyc. Evaluation (Pshyciatrist):
This one just keep it simple and straight forward. Be confident. Here they are looking for looney tunes. I was asked if I'd ever considered suicide...

5. Hand eye coordination test (stick/rudder pedals moving light, target). Don't know if they still do this test? I did it before the days of PC games! The main thing here is not to PANIC! For me and the others at the time it was WTF?! How the hell do you get the crosshairs on the target. Impossible!? The thing is, you do it twice, 5 minutes apart. They are looking for an improvement 2nd time around. Just make sure don't panic and give up. Couple of guys were failed on this when I did it......

6. Officer Selection Board:

Back to basics really, if you've got this far it should be in the bag. If you live,eat and dream aviation and read/browse aviation stuff fulltime and you really want it, it'll be a piece of p@ss. You ought to have lots of aviation general knowledge. Expected actually, no excuse if you don't. You wanted to be a pilot all your life right? I visited 1FTS at Pt Cook b4 the interview, showed I was keen (they asked me if I had)...
Actual flying experience, depends on your age I think. If you were 26 and hadn't done anything I'd be concerned if I was on the panel. If you were 18,19-early 20's and keen as mustard with no time I'd give you a tick. Just be confident and communicate your desire to become a RAAF pilot. DON'T say u want to learn to fly so you can get your ATPL and become a Qantas pilot!
End of the day they're trying to work out if you have the commitment and are worthy of responsibility of being let loose on a 50 million dollar aircraft or whatever they cost these days.
Don't forget you have to be potential 'officer worthy material'.... Whatever that is, ability in crazy drinking games is part of it from what I've heard from my mates..!

Hope this is of use, good luck to all who are trying. But at the end of the day, luck's got nothing to do with it.... CONFIDENCE

13Snoopy13, if you're still meandering, don't delay any more. Just do it now, you're running out of years. They don't want to spend millions training you if you can only return x years of flying service. RNZAF rejected me on this issue and at the time I was 2 years under the official max recruiting age. (would of failed the eye exam anyway if they were on the ball...)

Cheers

Octane

[reacher]

There's one word to take out of Octanes post; that is CONFIDENCE. I did my OSB at Tamworth in 06 and I didn't project as much confidence as I could have (the board president can be pretty intimadating!) and my marks showed that, but I got here in the end and I'm living the dream here at RMC.

You have to go into the OSB as if your already in and they are asking you to stay, but also know your sh!t. Know, and be able to clearly explain how something flies, exact platform specs and wpn systems with ranges (including ones coming into service) the REALISTIC trg timeline. The little 1%ers, all in detail, but also be ready to say that you don't know, DO NOT bull****, that goes for the DI and the OSB.

Good luck and ENJOY Tamworth, it's an awesome two weeks with some really switched people.

Now to go and run around the bush for a few weeks in nice dry and sunny QLD... hang on....

[MudRat_02]

Royal Australian Air Force spec testing

Anyone got any tips for passing the instrument reading test?

[Hornetboy]

MudRat,

Just got your email. Sorry about the 2 month late reply - I haven't been PPRUNeing (or checking that email) for a long time. I'll do a public reply as this info may be handy - it was to me.

Firstly, do you recall who told you that the 3-shot rule applied to spec testing? Was it the psych/psych assist, or your recruiter...or your recruiter relaying the message from the psych? I was not told the same when I had to resit spec testing myself. I was previously under the impression that it only applied to the GAS component (general ability testing), and recruiters have been known to be wrong before (one told me to do the wrong laser eye surgery!).

Secondly, are you aware that you can write in requesting your aptitude testing results? Ask your recruiter for the address to send the request to. In your situation, I'd suggest doing that so you can see if you improved from the first time, and how far off you still are from the cutoff. I can't recall exactly what the psych told me when I had to resit aptitudes (so take this info with a pinch of salt and don't quote), but I believe he said the cutoff for aptitudes graded on the stanine was somewhere around 5, and, as you now know, you have to pass them all. Double check with the psych on the cutoff, if he'll tell you; and please share with us.

You know if you are actually quite close to passing and you possess great suitability for a position in other aspects, recruiters have been known to push for a waiver on aptitude testing results for certain candidates. It is, however, a pain in the ar*e, and a last resort, with no guarantees. Hopefully this information offers you slight relief though.

Here's my advice. As wise as it is to be cautious about the final attempt, try not to psych yourself out before you get in there. Take your time looking closely at the test instructions page and burn the image of the example instrument setup into your mind. Note where each instrument is positioned relative to others, so you can immediately look to the instrument the question refers to. Note their applicable scales, which direction indicates an increase/decrease, and maximum/minimum readings. Don't linger or double check your answers until the end - you will be surprised how few errors you actually make, provided you know how to read the gauge correctly, while covering a lot more ground. And don't forget you still need to pass the other spec tests as well.

The IR test was the one I failed initially as well. I went back a second time, after I went off and did limited instrument flying as part of a NVFR, and passed. With a bit of common sense applied in technique, a bit more sleep the night before, and knowledge that I had to score well on EVERY test to get through, my score was raised from a 2 to a 7 on the stanine. Not impressive, but enough. Incidentally instrument flying has probably been the strongest part of my flying thus far. Go figure how this dark and mystic art of aptitude testing works...

[MudRat_02]

Thanks hornetboy and muckholio for your help! I have the Wings book and I'll certainly look into the other tests you suggested.

Anyway, for the time being, I'm starting a btech aviation course at uni - and by what you guys have said it that may well go some way to assisting me at the IR section (and convey flight motivation.ect) and ill look into the instrument flying. I've made a few mockup tests myself with a variety of different oil, fuel, temp, pressure, va/s, airspeed, rpm, voltage and amperage to try and simulate the test that should help out. I'd really love to at *least* get through and at least prove myself in flight screening or at least the psych interviews this time! I may have my potential private flying career lined up, but I'd love to be an officer and I'm sure nothing in the civvy world compares the the diversity, excitement and challenges you get with a military flying career!

[Ritero]

Thanks all,

I got through assessment day and was recommended for flight screening and OSB. I was told that though I'd passed, for OSB I need to do a lot of study on the RAAF - squadrons, aircraft & specs, history, bases, locations etc. Also need to expand my knowledge of the training process, life as a RAAF pilot, career directions, responsibilities (other than flying) etc. I know a fair bit now, but need to know basically everything. I also need to learn as much theory as I can on leadership, I haven't had a lot of experience in this field (not much team sport in high school) which will count against me.

So basically a lot of study to do for the next stage, and a bit of waiting to see if I'm offered a place on FSP. I can't go 'till July anyway so that part is not so bad.

If any current RAAF pilots feel like answering some questions shoot me a PM with your email

[13Snoopy13]

Hi guys! I am still around and am due to have my pilot specific testing in a couple of weeks (earliest possible!).

Can anyone enlighten me as to what kind of math to expect in the additional tests for pilot testing? I know there is aviation reasoning which was one previous weakness I have had to work on, but I can't for the life of me recall what the other math test involved!

Anyone know of any useful resources for practice tests etc?

FYI, I am no longer aiming for RAAF, I have to be realistic, and as pointed out in Octane's post, my age would (despite the fine print) be a cross against my name. So I am concentrating on army & navy aviation as i see this as my best chance for getting through. If I get an RAAF offer, then thats just a bonus!

I have let the DF know I am doing this for a long stint in the ADF, I am not interested in the financial rewards and certainly have no aspirations for flying civilian buses. As for the leadership theory, I did 3 years of it care of my management degree at uni, so hopefully that will count as a plus for me!

As for confidence, its a strange thing, but I actually wondered during the JOES day if knowing the job too well and not having any questions to ask was a good thing?

Thanks to everyone in this thread who have kept it alive, its good to hear some current news. I will let you all know how I went after Pilot Testing. In the event I don't get through this round, I will only be more prepared for the next run at it!

[msmelbourne]

Any assisstance for RAAF JOES days aptitude test

I am wish to apply to the RAAF and attend a JOES day. I would appreciate any assisstance in relation to the aptitude test, are there any websites/books out there that would help me in preparation any advice would be great, thanks

[13Snoopy13]

ms, your DFR should have given you some info on the aptitude test otherwise it can be found on the defencejobs.gov.au website. This example is pretty much what you can expect for JOES, so if you can do them without a problem then you should be fine.

Other than that, just brush up on your math and try to find some of those career based aptitude tests, i.e. the sort you do when applying for a supermarket job online . Read the posts above and other threads that relate to the aptitude testing, they will give you a good idea as to what you can expect.

Most importantly make sure you present yourself as officer material on the day. ie. dress smart, be confident and know what you want. Also, if you haven't started researching the job then do it now and know it like the back of your hand. When you book your JOES with a defence recruiter they will pretty much guide you on what you need to know and answer any questions you might have, or refer you to someone who does know the answer(s).

If you are looking for specific books on aviation aptitude testing, well there are the american guides for their military aviation testing, but there are none (that I know of) regarding the Australian Defence Force. Best bet is to sift through the internet and try to find some general aptitude and IQ tests or visit a library/bookshop to see what they have on the topic.

Cheers

[Ritero]

There is one for the RAAF, though a lot of the info is outdated. It's called Wings book.

http://www.getyourwings.com.au/