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RAAF Flight Screening Program (Merged)

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RAAF Flight Screening Program (Merged)

Old 4th Apr 2010, 00:24
  #1081 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SAUDI
Posts: 216
Still disagree spaceman.

Why has the grade changed. The BFTS syllabus has reverted(effectively) to the old 1FTS one whilst the 2FTS syllabus has (effectively) returned to the previous one. Little reduction in overall hours.

As far as meeting the same standards, well we have a slightly different type of aircraft to fly compared to 30 years ago. I agree that the ADF needs to look at its training system as not much has changed in, ohhh, how long ( apart from lets go to straight through training back to two types, what 3- 4 times) 40 plus years. Is the way we fight the same as how we did in Korea?
But I digress, I would suggest that standard is as high as ever as can be seen by the bleating from the knucklehead world that they are not getting the numbers they want. Hark back to my "less coming in smaller net analogy"
finestkind is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2010, 03:53
  #1082 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
Can't say i'm familiar with the old 1FTS syllabus so my knowledge of past requirements and grades is quite limited... therefore i wont comment except to say that that is an interesting point.

What i've heard from those bleating nuckleheads is that the quality is not as good. My impression from discussions i've had with those that care is that the number of students going on to 79 sqn are just the same as they have always been (in recent years anyways), and in fact there has recently been a small backlog of students post 2FTS waiting for Hawk conversion... but the quality has dipped. Hence why not enough are making it through to 76 and thence to 2OCU.

I'm actually thinking of creating a new thread to discuss this, because I don't think talking about the various problems with the training system is going to do alot for people wanting to know more about Flight Screening and PSA in this thread.
spacemantan is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2010, 05:58
  #1083 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SAUDI
Posts: 216
Fair enough but how can you comment on the grades if you are unsure of what they once were.

Also lends weight to the agrument about the smaller the catch in the net the less likely you will be able to pick enough potential knuckleheads. However that does not mean the standards have lowered. All it means is that the quality does not have as many shiny jet jockies. All they are doing is sending the same number across and as such less are likely to make it through. However you can even question my statement about the quality by throwing in this. I have no doubt that there are a number of knucklehead candidates that get to 79SQN or further down track and start to realise, gee if only I'd gone C130 etc I would be logging double if not triple the hours Captain of the aircarft and actually operational as opposed to still under training, still under the pump with the possibilty of being scrubbed, well thats a motivator.
finestkind is offline  
Old 5th Apr 2010, 07:00
  #1084 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 32
Posts: 12
Hey Everybody,
This is my first post here and can I just start by saying that this thread is an absolute gold mine. So many valuable contributions for aspiring pilots like myself to absorb.

Anyways, I am in the beginning stages of the recruitment process. I have my Specific Pilot Aptitude Testing day on the 12th of April (1 week away). I am fairly confident with my aptitude skills although I'm not here discuss that.

I'm here in hope that someone with a good understanding of DFR can answer an important question for me that I have been receiving mixed answers on. It is in relation to my Medical History.

A short while ago I received a shoulder injury which required X rays and a sling for 2 weeks. I received Centrelink Benefits for a couple weeks due to not being able to work and I used Medicare for the X rays. X rays reveal a minor irregularity with the shoulder (in terms of the collarbone)

but it is important that I point out that the shoulder has returned to 100% and I have full motion.

Getting to the point, I am worried about mentioning this problem in my Medical History Questionnaire as I believe I will be graded as a CLASS 4 regardless of how much I explain that it is no longer a problem.

I'm just looking for some advice on what I should do at assessment day in relationship to my medical questionnaire. I don't want to lie about anything and am generally a very honest person although I also don't want to be knocked back for a reason I know is unfair. Does anybody know if DFR will check medical history through a government database system or do they rely on the answers you give in the Medical History Questionnaire, and then request records if there seems to be a problem?

I have no problem performing physical tasks such as push ups, or anything for that matter (I swim 5km per week, and work out with weights also with no problems).

A BIG thankyou in advance for anybody that can help me!
BurningDesire is offline  
Old 5th Apr 2010, 07:38
  #1085 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Age: 32
Posts: 61
Hmm yeah that's a tough one. I'm kind of in the same boat. I put something on mine I wish I hadn't because I know it isn't a problem at all however it will hold up my application or even void it. Every time I think about it I wish I didn't put it on the questionnaire just in case. It's up to you mate, as far as I know they don't check databases or anything but if it does become a problem during training and It's found you withheld info you'll be discharged.

Maybe someone can help with mine. I had a varicose vein removed like 3 years ago, does anyone know if thats grounds for Class 4 medical? Please say no haha, stressing big time.
oneflewnorth is offline  
Old 5th Apr 2010, 12:38
  #1086 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
BurningDesire:

The most probable reason you are getting mixed answers from DFR, is that the only staff that are able to give advice on medical issues, are the medical staff themselves. CC's DI's and Case managers aren't legally aloud to give advice so you tend to get hazy ansers from them.

If you can prove through your GP and whatever specialist you may have seen that the arm will not create any issues during your career as an officer and a pilot then there should be no problems. The only thing I can see happening is that the ADF may want to examine the issue a little further through AVMED. This may hold up your application for a little while.

Lying on your medical questionaire is up to you but Oneflewnorth is bang on when he says that you can be discharged for it if you are discovered to have lied. Honesty is the best policy but cover your bases by providing GP's letters and maybe the opinion of a specialist.

Oneflewnorth:

I'm not a Dr but i just wiki'ed Varicose veins... I'm not qualified to say yes or no but as I mentioned above, cover your bases with information for DFR from GP's and specialists.

All the best to both of you! and good luck for the aptitude test BurningDesire
spacemantan is offline  
Old 6th Apr 2010, 00:53
  #1087 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 32
Posts: 12
Oneflewnorth - Hey when do you find out from DFR if it will be a problem or not. To me, it doesn't sound like it should be a problem, but I don't know much about Varicose veins. So What stages are you at? Did you just have our assessment day? Are you waiting for an offer to FSP?

Spacemantan - Hey thanks for the advice and well wishes. Yeah I do realise that I would be discharged if they found out later on. I'm sure i can handle the training without it becoming a problem, but maybe there are other ways that they will find out? It's such a hard decision. I'm sure I can get GP and Specialist reports to vouch that my shoulder is ok. So I'm kind of leaning towards nominating it on my Medical but having a pile of specialist reports from many different specialists and GP's stating that it's fine.

So do you guys really think that specialist reports will really help the situation or will they still judge the situation themselves regardless?
BurningDesire is offline  
Old 6th Apr 2010, 03:42
  #1088 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: N.S.W, Australia
Posts: 32
English Comprehension

Hi all,
I have a quick question I hope someone can help me with. I have read on some posts that there is "english comprehension" in the first and second aptitude tests for pilots at the YOU day. Can anyone tell me if this is just the "Foot is to Leg as Hand is to a, head. b, arm" etc type stuff or do they also involve reading passages and then deducing the most likely statement?

Thanks Jorocketoz

p.s. keep up the great forum
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Old 6th Apr 2010, 03:53
  #1089 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: 'straya
Posts: 3
As far as med stuff goes, get advice from the med staff at recruiting. Regardless, as mentioned it is fraudulent to fail to disclose. More to the point if it means you are unsuitable now then there are many ways in which to get stuff fixed and have another go. I know of plenty of guys with niggling injuries that have, at times, seriously affected their performance. How do you come clean with that one in the middle of pilots' course! I know one guy got caught during pilot training recently - and how much do you think that held them up?! Not only did the issue need to be resolved, but there is also an investigation into why it wasn’t disclosed originally...sucks to be him!

Hey Spaceman, why so dark about quality of trainees? You seem to know what you are talking about, so you would also be aware that the syllabus and number of QFIs that a trainee flies with means it has to be some serious conspiracy to get someone through under the required standard!
blkxr5t is offline  
Old 6th Apr 2010, 08:39
  #1090 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
Hey Spaceman, why so dark about quality of trainees? You seem to know what you are talking about, so you would also be aware that the syllabus and number of QFIs that a trainee flies with means it has to be some serious conspiracy to get someone through under the required standard!
I really think we'll need to start a new thread to discuss this further. I'm not suggesting there is a conspiracy theory at all... I'm merely an impressionable pilot who's heard rumblings from those in ATW/ACG about quality of graduates.

Many who i've spoken to agree that there are a number of reasons for this which does include the softening of "grades" so to speak.

To a certain degree I believe it. If 2FTS's goal is provide pilots ready and able to complete OPCON, then why are there more people bombing out of conversion... I honestly cannot back any figures up because i'm just not in the know... But thats what i've heard...

Having said that though, I believe the quality of instruction at 2FTS is superb and it could simply be a case of some people falling through the cracks...
spacemantan is offline  
Old 6th Apr 2010, 09:58
  #1091 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Victoria
Age: 57
Posts: 985
[QUOTETo a certain degree I believe it. If 2FTS's goal is provide pilots ready and able to complete OPCON, then why are there more people bombing out of conversion... ][/QUOTE]
Wouldn't be anything to do with the 2 - 6 month delay between finishing BFTS and starting 2FTS, and the (up to) 18 month delay to start an OPCON post wings now wouldn't it?
Captain Sand Dune is offline  
Old 6th Apr 2010, 23:36
  #1092 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 43
Posts: 12
CSD, I'm laughing reading that. It's the old Elephant in the Room that just won't go away.
Toppie is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2010, 06:56
  #1093 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 32
Posts: 12
Question

So you guys all think that a couple specialist opinions and a GP report (From a CASA certified GP) will carry some weighting regarding a medical issue thats not too serious?
BurningDesire is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2010, 12:15
  #1094 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Age: 32
Posts: 61
If you decide to disclose it be armed with anything you can to prevent delays. Specialist reports, physio reports, doc reports, notes from personal trainers/coaches you name it. You could always play down the seriousness of it to the doc at DFR

All I wanna do is go flying!!! It's been too long. I've got no God damn money! Donations welcome, I take all major credit cards, BPAY, bank deposit, cash and cheque...or your plane

Last edited by oneflewnorth; 7th Apr 2010 at 12:30.
oneflewnorth is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2010, 08:17
  #1095 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Brisbane
Age: 39
Posts: 6
30+ and wanting to fly!

Hey all,
I have posted a similar question in the past but am really interested if anyone has actually been selected and or passed for BFTS and gone onto pass and become a pilot?

I am now over 30 and am beginning my process to apply as this is always what I have wanted to do.

Any insight is appreciated.
Cheers.
madkeen is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2010, 11:29
  #1096 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 3
Can be done mate, I was 31 at FSP, 32 at BFTS. That was a few years ago, and I'm RAN, not sure about RAAF, Captain Sand Dune could give you a more accurate, current answer.

You'll never know if you don't have a crack.
Oppz is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2010, 12:33
  #1097 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Brisbane
Age: 39
Posts: 6
Yeah mate, I agree and am going to give it a shot! Was your initial choice RAN or did you want to do something else? Did your placement have anything to do with your results in FSP?

As many others, I am wanting to fly fast jets but am realistic and understand that this is one of the most competitive choices for applicants.

How did you find the whole process? Would love to get your insight as you have already completed it.
madkeen is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2010, 13:02
  #1098 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The crew room
Posts: 50
This may have already been addressed (57 too many pages for me) but when I went through a failure rate (2 FTS all through) of about 40-50% was typical. I have heard it is about 10-20% now. What's changed? Or are the stats wrong?
FlareHighLandLong is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2010, 13:28
  #1099 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Perth, WA
Age: 25
Posts: 87
I'd think that what CSD was quoted as saying here, would have a little bit to do with it.

Originally Posted by CSD, way back in the thread.
Back in the bad ol' days the CFI would scrub you just because he thought your eyes were too close together and he was in a bad mood. Today the justification and paperwork required, coupled with the lack of gumption displayed by some in charge fearing a redress means to actually suspend a poor student is a lot harder.
Dilmah G is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2010, 20:28
  #1100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SAUDI
Posts: 216
FHLD

I think you answered your own question. When you went through on the all through course all suspension were at 2FTS. Now like the good old days BFTS filter for 2FTS, hence a lot are scrubbed at BFTS and therefore less % wise at 2FTS
finestkind is offline  

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