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RAAF Flight Screening Program (Merged)

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RAAF Flight Screening Program (Merged)

Old 9th Apr 2018, 20:52
  #3621 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dirty South
Posts: 345
Originally Posted by hansfalkenhagen View Post
Calm down, Junior. I have relayed information and statistics that have been made from people whom are much smarter than we are, that's it. I can link you the reports and theses if you like.

Like I've said before, this thread has been helpful to me so I have decided to share my experience of the ASP for those who are still waiting for an invite - it was a 10 month wait for most of us, and may be longer for those yet to receive an offer.

I think I'll make this my last post and just get on with it.

This is a thread is for aspiring pilots after all, not disgruntled ones. And cheer up in the mean time, you do have a fantastic career.
I can see this ending in tears.
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Old 9th Apr 2018, 21:21
  #3622 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: East side of OZ
Posts: 615
I completed my RAAF pilot course in 1976 and the scrub rate then was around 30% and the selection process was nowhere near as thorough or sophisticated as it appears to be these days which makes me wonder what benefit there is in having the RAAF flight screening process when the end result over the last 40+ years is essentially unchanged.

Cheers,
BH.

Last edited by Bullethead; 9th Apr 2018 at 23:48.
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Old 9th Apr 2018, 23:59
  #3623 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SAUDI
Posts: 216
BH

I have different figures. Srub rate was around 50+% in 80's and 90's. When all thru PC9 started scrub rate went up. Flight screening was introduced with the pass rate fluctuating between 55% and 65%. So definitely an improvement. But stats like photo's do lie. What do I mean? The old planning style of putting double the number you wanted on course to get the number you needed stuck. This simply means if we the RAAF had just put on the better risk people rather than filling the seats by placing high risk people on course the scrub rate would have been far less.
finestkind is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2018, 10:12
  #3624 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Perth
Posts: 23
Can someone please explain how to do big division quickly in your head? I can simplify some fractions, but struggle with others.

You burn 150 kgs of fuel per hour. How much fuel will you need to travel 754 miles if you average a speed of 870 mph?

how do you divide the fraction of 754/870

You travel at an average speed of 190 mph. How much fuel do you need for a 114 mile trip if you burn 50 kgs per hour?

how do you simplify 114/190? I get it will become 57/95 after which I get stuck. Any help would be great, thanks.
quantify is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2018, 11:02
  #3625 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: East side of OZ
Posts: 615
Gíday finest,

Thanks for the extra info, I wasnít aware of the increase in the scrub rate in the 80s and 90s.

Cheers,
BH.
Bullethead is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2018, 20:05
  #3626 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dirty South
Posts: 345
Originally Posted by quantify View Post
Can someone please explain how to do big division quickly in your head? I can simplify some fractions, but struggle with others.

You burn 150 kgs of fuel per hour. How much fuel will you need to travel 754 miles if you average a speed of 870 mph?

how do you divide the fraction of 754/870

You travel at an average speed of 190 mph. How much fuel do you need for a 114 mile trip if you burn 50 kgs per hour?

how do you simplify 114/190? I get it will become 57/95 after which I get stuck. Any help would be great, thanks.
I’d use the fact that 60mph is a mile a minute, then work from there.

1. 870 mph is 14.5 miles per minute. (14*6 = 84 and half of 6 gets you the remaining 3 to get 87) use a factor of 10 to make the numbers smaller.

14.5 miles a minute, is 1450 miles in a 100 minutes. Half of 1450 is 725. So, in 50 minutes we cover 725 miles (nearly there) Add another 2 minutes at 14.5 miles per minute gets you to 753 and 52 minutes. Close enough. That’s .9 (ish) of an hour. .9 of 150 kg is 135kg.

They’ve given you numbers that work with mile/minute and it’s multiples. If it’s multiple choice, then you wouldn’t have to be so precise. Mile a minute, 3 times descent rates, and maybe 1 in 60 are some of the techniques that have a practical application. Most pilots are good at their 6 times tables.

There’s probably also a clever way to do it. I’m not clever
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Old 11th Apr 2018, 08:51
  #3627 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Sydney
Posts: 5
ASP OSB invites

Has anyone been invited to a pilot OSB (from March ASP's) or does anyone know of any invites being sent out?
AT591 is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 09:38
  #3628 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 8
Hey AT,

I haven't heard of any invites going out yet, but I know the next OSB for Brisbane candidates is in late May. If DFR have similar dates all around Australia, some invites might be going out in the next few weeks.
The Ayatollah is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2018, 03:50
  #3629 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 5
In addition to May, my case manager also said in August.
Rich.ieP is offline  
Old 19th Apr 2018, 03:05
  #3630 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 6
Hi all

I am attending the 7th-10th May ASP.
If anyone is on the same course feel free to get in touch via private message.
spandexo is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2018, 00:24
  #3631 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 5
So the round of offers for OSB have started to go out. I just received one for the 14th-18th week in May. It appears that we only pick one day so perhaps the OSB is shorter now? Does anyone have any information on this?
Thanks
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Old 21st Apr 2018, 05:39
  #3632 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 41
All DEO aircrew OSBs are now lumped in with all other officer entry roles so you will just do the standard one day ROSB at your local or closest major DFRC.
tayra is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2018, 17:59
  #3633 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 2
Hi guys,

Long term lurker, not sure if it's appropriate to post here. 25, work in management consulting in the US.
I have a undergraduate degree in Economics/Finance.

I'm an Australian Citizen, who moved over after undergraduate studies to Washington DC for work. I think ever since I was 16 I always had a desire to pursue a career in the RAAF however I wasn't confident I would be successful and hence went with the safe option. However after 1-2 years of work I still look back and keep thinking what-if. Job is great in terms of pay/benefits but I keep thinking nearly every weekend or fortnight I should've just gone for broke when I was younger and apply. Is it too late now? I have attempted a few times to apply but have withdrawn my application beforehand.

I'm not sure what this says about my personality of if i'd even be a good fit. Or am I even too old, I've also noticed my vision which use to be better than 20-20 at 18 has now started to suffer a bit at long distance, from doing too much excel modelling and powerpoint in front of a computer.
Jaxom1 is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2018, 00:28
  #3634 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 6
Hi all,

Just wondering what the general waiting time is between finishing your assessment day and being offered a spot at ASP? I assume itís not too much of a wait as the program is only two days now..?

Regards.
Pillymonkey is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2018, 03:52
  #3635 (permalink)  
SHT
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Perth
Posts: 3
Jaxom and whoever else wants to read,

I am also a long time lurker, first time poster, and let me start by saying, yes Jaxom, you posting here is appropriate!

I started to become motivated to make comment recently seeing some pretty bad advise getting thrown around by somebody who seems to Ďknow it allí, and not take the hint from people in the actual know when it is time to take the humble and helpful road, vice the big nothing road. But ultimately I couldnít be bothered, as the system has a way of sorting those people out eventually. However your post has inspired me to comment after a long time of watching from the back of the bus.

Your story sounds very similar to mine if I went back 10+ years, but skip forward and I have had and am still having a very successful career as a RAAF pilot.

I was the same age as you are now when I joined, I even read this thread back then too! And like you I was unsure as to whether I was good enough or who they wanted. I was scared of failure, as I tried to get in when I was 17 at school and failed all of the pilot aptitude testing miserably! I had the psychologist tell me to my face I was not smart enough and should consider another career.... I was destroyed, and thought it would never happen and I was too scared to go back for the longest time. But like you I kept coming back to wanting to do it, but I just couldnít muster up the courage to apply.... till one day I just took the leap and the rest is history.

So how do you ask did I turn it around? Simple.... I worked my arse off!

17 year old me had read a couple of recruiting pamphlets, and I knew I always wanted to do it, and because I wanted it so bad I deserved it right? Wrong. So I just turned up, completely unprepared, and the result unsurprisingly was a big fat fail.

Skip to 25 year old me, who didnít want a repeat of my experience at 17, because to be quite honest at the time it was life shattering, So I decided to prepare as best I could. I did all sorts of things, from Prep courses for maths, aptitude testing courses, visited several bases, spoke to actual pilots, lived and breathed it and worked my butt off.

So a bit of advice regarding some of the stuff I have read on here lately....

Now we could sit here and debate whether ASP is harder or easier than FSP, what traits they are testing for, what scores mean what and etc etc.....
But the reality is that none of that is useful to any of you, and the so called info regarding ASP scores etc you have all read in this thread is at best guesswork, and again not useful to you.

What is relevant to all of you is that ASP exists, there is nothing you can do about that, and you need to pass it to progress.

Sharing the gouge(good info) is one of the first lessons we teach you at the schools, and thatís what this thread should be about. I have seen comments from people not willing to divulge any gouge as to what is involved in the testing, telling you you canít prepare you either have it or you donít... make no mistake about it, this person is wrong and what we call a gouge hoarder, out there for himself, not to help out. Thatís not how we operate in the aircrew world.

I am a QFI at one of the schools at the moment, and I have seen all kinds come through over the last few years, and I have seen all kinds not make it as well.
I can tell you that myself and all of my aircrew brethren would rather train a weaker candidate, with a good attitude that has to work their ass off to keep up, than the natural with a superior attitude who is not a team player. The later puts a bad taste in our mouths, and we will often weed them out, because frankly they donít belong in the RAAF.

So why do I say all of this.... I say it for those of you out there that read some of the overly cocky comments on here from some of the recruiting warriors amongst you (you have all met one I am sure) and think maybe I am not as good as that guy/girl. Make no mistake, the false bravado is designed to put off the competition, and usually their puffed up story of how well they are doing is greatly exaggerated.

Now I am not going to lie, I know next to nothing about ASP and I cannot help you with that, thatís what sharing the gouge and all you lot are for! But I do know what product we are looking for, and I know who makes it through training as I see them and teach them everyday. Some of my proudest moments instructing have been seeing some of my struggling students get wings at the end from sheer will, determination and grit. Nobody, and I mean nobody gets through Pilots course by themselves.

So my advice would be this....

Be humble and help each other.

Share the gouge, give yourselves the best chance to find a way to prepare for the testing.

Ignore the naysayers, there is always a way to prepare for everything, you just need to find it!

Whilst you are in competition for a spot, run your own race, donít worry about anybody else and how they may be doing. Remember other people need to pass too for you to have course mates! Start the teamwork now.

Finally, anonymous forums are one thing, but go and call a base and ask to be put through to a squadron, and ask to speak to a pilot. I have been on the other end of the line many times over the years and it always impresses. Get the advice from the horses mouth, rather than the recruiting warriors.

Finally, Good luck to everybody, and to Jaxon, you owe it to yourself to have a shot mate, donít die wondering!

SHT
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Old 22nd Apr 2018, 13:10
  #3636 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 2
Thanks SHT, I actually grew up in Perth! I'll give it a shot calling a few of the bases, if not i have 3 weeks of Holiday (sigh USA) which I could use head back home and do some intense "networking" haha.. Time is short.Would love to have a chat if your free sometime as-well if your cool with that.

Jax
Jaxom1 is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2018, 14:58
  #3637 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,865
What a great post SHT. The best info so far on this thread.
donpizmeov is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2018, 19:32
  #3638 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 119
Originally Posted by SHT View Post
Jaxom and whoever else wants to read,

I am also a long time lurker, first time poster, and let me start by saying, yes Jaxom, you posting here is appropriate!

I started to become motivated to make comment recently seeing some pretty bad advise getting thrown around by somebody who seems to Ďknow it allí, and not take the hint from people in the actual know when it is time to take the humble and helpful road, vice the big nothing road. But ultimately I couldnít be bothered, as the system has a way of sorting those people out eventually. However your post has inspired me to comment after a long time of watching from the back of the bus.

Your story sounds very similar to mine if I went back 10+ years, but skip forward and I have had and am still having a very successful career as a RAAF pilot.

I was the same age as you are now when I joined, I even read this thread back then too! And like you I was unsure as to whether I was good enough or who they wanted. I was scared of failure, as I tried to get in when I was 17 at school and failed all of the pilot aptitude testing miserably! I had the psychologist tell me to my face I was not smart enough and should consider another career.... I was destroyed, and thought it would never happen and I was too scared to go back for the longest time. But like you I kept coming back to wanting to do it, but I just couldnít muster up the courage to apply.... till one day I just took the leap and the rest is history.

So how do you ask did I turn it around? Simple.... I worked my arse off!

17 year old me had read a couple of recruiting pamphlets, and I knew I always wanted to do it, and because I wanted it so bad I deserved it right? Wrong. So I just turned up, completely unprepared, and the result unsurprisingly was a big fat fail.

Skip to 25 year old me, who didnít want a repeat of my experience at 17, because to be quite honest at the time it was life shattering, So I decided to prepare as best I could. I did all sorts of things, from Prep courses for maths, aptitude testing courses, visited several bases, spoke to actual pilots, lived and breathed it and worked my butt off.

So a bit of advice regarding some of the stuff I have read on here lately....

Now we could sit here and debate whether ASP is harder or easier than FSP, what traits they are testing for, what scores mean what and etc etc.....
But the reality is that none of that is useful to any of you, and the so called info regarding ASP scores etc you have all read in this thread is at best guesswork, and again not useful to you.

What is relevant to all of you is that ASP exists, there is nothing you can do about that, and you need to pass it to progress.

Sharing the gouge(good info) is one of the first lessons we teach you at the schools, and thatís what this thread should be about. I have seen comments from people not willing to divulge any gouge as to what is involved in the testing, telling you you canít prepare you either have it or you donít... make no mistake about it, this person is wrong and what we call a gouge hoarder, out there for himself, not to help out. Thatís not how we operate in the aircrew world.

I am a QFI at one of the schools at the moment, and I have seen all kinds come through over the last few years, and I have seen all kinds not make it as well.
I can tell you that myself and all of my aircrew brethren would rather train a weaker candidate, with a good attitude that has to work their ass off to keep up, than the natural with a superior attitude who is not a team player. The later puts a bad taste in our mouths, and we will often weed them out, because frankly they donít belong in the RAAF.

So why do I say all of this.... I say it for those of you out there that read some of the overly cocky comments on here from some of the recruiting warriors amongst you (you have all met one I am sure) and think maybe I am not as good as that guy/girl. Make no mistake, the false bravado is designed to put off the competition, and usually their puffed up story of how well they are doing is greatly exaggerated.

Now I am not going to lie, I know next to nothing about ASP and I cannot help you with that, thatís what sharing the gouge and all you lot are for! But I do know what product we are looking for, and I know who makes it through training as I see them and teach them everyday. Some of my proudest moments instructing have been seeing some of my struggling students get wings at the end from sheer will, determination and grit. Nobody, and I mean nobody gets through Pilots course by themselves.

So my advice would be this....

Be humble and help each other.

Share the gouge, give yourselves the best chance to find a way to prepare for the testing.

Ignore the naysayers, there is always a way to prepare for everything, you just need to find it!

Whilst you are in competition for a spot, run your own race, donít worry about anybody else and how they may be doing. Remember other people need to pass too for you to have course mates! Start the teamwork now.

Finally, anonymous forums are one thing, but go and call a base and ask to be put through to a squadron, and ask to speak to a pilot. I have been on the other end of the line many times over the years and it always impresses. Get the advice from the horses mouth, rather than the recruiting warriors.

Finally, Good luck to everybody, and to Jaxon, you owe it to yourself to have a shot mate, donít die wondering!

SHT
Absolutely. F*cking. Nailed it.

I would also add: donít be the guy/gal that says ďI wish I prepped/studied moreĒ. Whether thatís at the end of screening/ XFTS/ aircraft type conversion.

You get 1 chance. Much of how it plays out, is in your hands. Make it count.
flighthappens is online now  
Old 23rd Apr 2018, 06:40
  #3639 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1
SHT;


Thanks SHT, I have my ASP on the 7th and 8th of May and your reading your post has help ease my nerves.
Nadroj31 is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2018, 07:21
  #3640 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 41
In the interest of discussion and because some of that was directed at me I'll bite.

Before you go accusing me of hoarding wood-turning tools let me preface all of this by saying I have already helped numerous people who've messaged me here on PPRuNe, facebook, reddit etc asking anything from ASP preparation tips and maths help to what to wear.

I have a background tutoring and teaching at University. My approach to helping people has always been transactional. That is, I'm more than happy to help, point someone in the right direction and answer questions if they, the student or whoever, has actually made an attempt to help themselves first. I would often get questions which essentially boiled down to "please immediately provide an answer to this overly broad and nuanced problem I have". Those were the people I did not help. If however someone came to me saying; "here's the problem I have, I think these are the issues I need to address, I've identified these avenues as possible solutions, can you help me?" I would be more than happy to jump in and give them everything I had to offer.
I've been getting the same sorts of questions about the ASP. There are those who just want a nudge in the right direction to keep conducting their own research or those who think I should detail all 20 tests, what each contains and decent strategies for approaching all of them. Would you help both of those people?

You don't have to go back very far in this thread at all to see all manner of questions shot down by the very same BFTS/2FTS instructors preaching about teamwork and helping your mates. Instead it was: "Read this thread, do your research, you'll never become an Officer in the RAAF if you can't solve these problems on your own." So, in the same vein, it has been alluded to already that the ASP involves the very same battery of tests that the RAF uses. The term "RAF CBAT" should be all you need to find every possible bit of information about what will be on and how to prepare for the ASP.

Obviously when you are in the RAAF and on pilots course helping your course mates out is the name of the game. This was already the spirit of things on my ASP so you needn't despair for us too much yet. I'm interested to hear where you and others draw the line between helping/supporting and cheating/fairness. People are told not to detail the inner workings of an OSB to other candidates as it undermines the selection process so why doesn't that apply in this case?

As far as what I suggested previously as preparation. I said some of the testing "feels like you either have it or you don't". This seems to be the consensus not just from me but from those who've recently completed the ASP and from the thousands of posts from those who've attempted it in the UK and Canada. On the second night of my ASP I stayed up giving a few candidates from the next course info about all the tests they would be doing the following afternoon and how I approached them. I warned them that it likely wouldn’t help a whole lot and after doing them they agreed that it didn't provide much help outside of a slight confidence boost and an easier night’s sleep. So you can say that it's wrong all you want but to quote one of your ilk from a previous page "you haven’t done it, don’t pretend you know more than the people who have." (sweeping statements fly both ways)

The only perfect preparation for the ASP would be to program your own copy of the tests but doing that you'd risk the postie delivering something addressed to you with a UK MoD letterhead. Even then, those crafty psychologists that be have created tests with very high test-retest reliability so they would be arguing that you can’t prepare at all. If you don't want to take an interest if how testing like this is designed and scored that's fine but there could be a reality that maybe it can't be prepared for as much as you'd like it to.

All that being said and despite how overtly defensive it might read, thank you for your insight, I and others will most certainly take it on board. Hopefully we can continue to discuss it without the hostility that PPRuNe is known for.

Last edited by tayra; 23rd Apr 2018 at 09:20.
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