Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
In the early 1960's the USA were anxious to learn all they could as to why the UK had won against the communists in Malaysia whilst the USA was losing against the communists in Vietnam. In January 1963 Warcup chaired a symposium held in the USA of senior military personnel from the UK, Australia and USA.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,803
Received 135 Likes
on
63 Posts
Interesting to see that a Colonel Clutterbuck was also on the panel. Read a book by him years ago on the Malayan "Emergency". He emphasised the importance of keeping the local villagers on side with the hearts and minds campaign, a point which was lost on the Americans in Vietnam.
Isolationism and Engagement are uneasy bed-fellows.
"Buster".....
......some of you may remember my talking about a 94 yr old ex-RAF pilot who I thought would be a good fit in here if he could be enticed in here to read some of this wonderful thread.
I found a former course mate from South Cerney and ex Shack driver living in the same village as my brother-in-law who was also part of the plan and arrangements were put together.
When approached, Buster said that it was all too far away in time and he would prefer NOT to go back that far into his life. (I think he may have expressed hiself more robustly).
Ho hum - it was worth a try and I still would like to spend an evening in his company.
The Ancient Mariner
I found a former course mate from South Cerney and ex Shack driver living in the same village as my brother-in-law who was also part of the plan and arrangements were put together.
When approached, Buster said that it was all too far away in time and he would prefer NOT to go back that far into his life. (I think he may have expressed hiself more robustly).
Ho hum - it was worth a try and I still would like to spend an evening in his company.
The Ancient Mariner
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,803
Received 135 Likes
on
63 Posts
Sad, Rossian, but we must respect the individual's choice.
I, on the other hand, have little to hide, as many young ladies will attest.
I, on the other hand, have little to hide, as many young ladies will attest.
I have posted before about a Polish Nav on 48 Sqn Hastings at Changi, but his story warrants a brief reprise given present posts.
Together with much else of the Polish Army after the fall of Poland, Victor Fontes (a Polish Cavalry Officer) went south east to the Black Sea port of Constanta (a remarkable feat in itself), embarked there in a British ship for Gibraltar, transhipped for Western France to fight the Wehrmacht that had laid waste to his homeland, but arrived there only for the fall of that country. He fled south to the Pyrenees with the aid of the brave guides described to us by sidevalve, was arrested and then escaped from the Franco regime, made it back to Gibraltar where he joined the RAF for training as a Bomber Pilot (there being a lack of vacancies for Cavalry Officers!).
He survived that very dangerous occupation and remained with the post war RAF, together with so many other Poles he knew that a return to the now Communist regime back home could mean certain death. He later remustered as a nav because of the surplus of pilots.
A larger than life character in every way and still challenged by his adopted tongue, Vic was a survivor in every way and an inspiration for a then still callow co-pilot.
Together with much else of the Polish Army after the fall of Poland, Victor Fontes (a Polish Cavalry Officer) went south east to the Black Sea port of Constanta (a remarkable feat in itself), embarked there in a British ship for Gibraltar, transhipped for Western France to fight the Wehrmacht that had laid waste to his homeland, but arrived there only for the fall of that country. He fled south to the Pyrenees with the aid of the brave guides described to us by sidevalve, was arrested and then escaped from the Franco regime, made it back to Gibraltar where he joined the RAF for training as a Bomber Pilot (there being a lack of vacancies for Cavalry Officers!).
He survived that very dangerous occupation and remained with the post war RAF, together with so many other Poles he knew that a return to the now Communist regime back home could mean certain death. He later remustered as a nav because of the surplus of pilots.
A larger than life character in every way and still challenged by his adopted tongue, Vic was a survivor in every way and an inspiration for a then still callow co-pilot.
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting to see that a Colonel Clutterbuck was also on the panel. Read a book by him years ago on the Malayan "Emergency". He emphasised the importance of keeping the local villagers on side with the hearts and minds campaign, a point which was lost on the Americans in Vietnam.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: over the rainbow
Age: 75
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My dad had flown out to KL in '55, my mother, myself and younger brother arrived at Singapore by ship in January '56. I was 7 yrs and about 6weeks old.
We must not have had enough green shield stamps to move immediately onto the Camp, which for me was a Godsend because my dad had rented a beautiful bungalow and large garden on the outskirts of KL. One end of the garden abutted heavily forested land and there were banana plants in the garden.
Primary school, which as I previously described, was on Batu Cantonment Army Camp. School hours were from early A.M. until mid-day.
Every morning an Army truck complete with a couple of young soldiers in the back to lift us into and out of this vehicle would collect me and others and transport us to school and at mid-day bring us back.
I recall little of my time at the school, other than that one day my dad flew a Single Pin in and parked it in front of the school.
But I always knew that there were terrorists at play but I guess we never strayed out of the 'white areas' as those parts of Malaya where the terrorists did not operate, were known.
We drove to a number of the coastal towns and beaches and in '56 up to Frasers' Hill for a holiday, in a convoy as I recall. On these trips we passed through many check-points in the Nash Airflight. My dad always placed his SD Cap on the rear parcel shelf. He said it got us through much quicker. Not sure if he had a revolver in the glove compartment. It would not have surprised me if he did.
Our next door neighbour was a serving Army officer. He had two teenage sons at boarding school in the UK. His hobby was collecting butterflies which he kept in beautiful wooden and glass cases. He once took me into the jungle with him in search of exotic butterflies.
We must not have had enough green shield stamps to move immediately onto the Camp, which for me was a Godsend because my dad had rented a beautiful bungalow and large garden on the outskirts of KL. One end of the garden abutted heavily forested land and there were banana plants in the garden.
Primary school, which as I previously described, was on Batu Cantonment Army Camp. School hours were from early A.M. until mid-day.
Every morning an Army truck complete with a couple of young soldiers in the back to lift us into and out of this vehicle would collect me and others and transport us to school and at mid-day bring us back.
I recall little of my time at the school, other than that one day my dad flew a Single Pin in and parked it in front of the school.
But I always knew that there were terrorists at play but I guess we never strayed out of the 'white areas' as those parts of Malaya where the terrorists did not operate, were known.
We drove to a number of the coastal towns and beaches and in '56 up to Frasers' Hill for a holiday, in a convoy as I recall. On these trips we passed through many check-points in the Nash Airflight. My dad always placed his SD Cap on the rear parcel shelf. He said it got us through much quicker. Not sure if he had a revolver in the glove compartment. It would not have surprised me if he did.
Our next door neighbour was a serving Army officer. He had two teenage sons at boarding school in the UK. His hobby was collecting butterflies which he kept in beautiful wooden and glass cases. He once took me into the jungle with him in search of exotic butterflies.
Last edited by roving; 9th Nov 2017 at 17:10. Reason: added detail
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,803
Received 135 Likes
on
63 Posts
I did modest amount of butterfly collecting in Singapore too. A couple of boxed frames brought home as gifts to my parents. Bought some box-framed scary beetles as well, but they were less popular!.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: over the rainbow
Age: 75
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On Sunday, Remembrance Day, the Nation and the Commonwealth pay tribute to the many who have died in wars.
In his book "Broken Wings" James J Halley records that between the end of WWII and
the end of 1999, there have been over 6,000 accidents to RAF aircraft which have resulted in aircraft being removed from service. In a significant number of them aircrew and passengers died.
These accidents were in the main not caused by enemy action but in some instances caused or contributed to by design and maintenance failures. coupled with a lack of navigational aids and support, particularly in overseas operations.
This was no more evident than in Malaya during the 12 years of the Emergency when a number of aircrew and air despatchers were lost on supply operations over the jungle. In the case of Valetta aircraft of 48 (based in Changi) and 110 (based in KL) Squadrons, it was a recurrent problem. It was not just the RAF, a RNZA Bristol Freighter based in Changi, flown by the Sqn OC, crashed in bad weather in 1956, with 8 lost.
I will be thinking of the Service I attended as an 9 year old boy, at K.L. in 1957 for the three SNCO aircrew of 110 Sqn, one of whom was aged just 21, who died when a Valetta crashed into the jungle, not as a result of navigational or flying error, but an oversped engine.
In his book "Broken Wings" James J Halley records that between the end of WWII and
the end of 1999, there have been over 6,000 accidents to RAF aircraft which have resulted in aircraft being removed from service. In a significant number of them aircrew and passengers died.
These accidents were in the main not caused by enemy action but in some instances caused or contributed to by design and maintenance failures. coupled with a lack of navigational aids and support, particularly in overseas operations.
This was no more evident than in Malaya during the 12 years of the Emergency when a number of aircrew and air despatchers were lost on supply operations over the jungle. In the case of Valetta aircraft of 48 (based in Changi) and 110 (based in KL) Squadrons, it was a recurrent problem. It was not just the RAF, a RNZA Bristol Freighter based in Changi, flown by the Sqn OC, crashed in bad weather in 1956, with 8 lost.
I will be thinking of the Service I attended as an 9 year old boy, at K.L. in 1957 for the three SNCO aircrew of 110 Sqn, one of whom was aged just 21, who died when a Valetta crashed into the jungle, not as a result of navigational or flying error, but an oversped engine.
It's the 10th of the month: Mess bill!!!
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: over the rainbow
Age: 75
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12 November 1980?
At almost exactly a year before my dad retired from flying with Marshalls at Shawbury and from VR T flying, just ahead of his 65th birthday. That is quite a long time ago.
You will have witnessed many changes in the Service since then.
At almost exactly a year before my dad retired from flying with Marshalls at Shawbury and from VR T flying, just ahead of his 65th birthday. That is quite a long time ago.
You will have witnessed many changes in the Service since then.
"Today is the 10th" notices in the mess. Well known Lincolnshire fighter base, me newly minted but ageing OC Accounts and fighter pilots reluctant to meet the deadline despite all sorts of threats. But with the advantage of a budgie on my jumper I did a deal with the squadron commanders - at cop on 10th I gave them a list of non-payers. They were promptly removed from the flying programme, and were restored when I notified receipt of the relevant cheque. Worked a dream.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: over the rainbow
Age: 75
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
add
I never really understood my father preferring to fly single engine military aircraft throughout his career rather than move into civilian aviation. He once said he preferred aircraft with either one or four engines.
Last edited by roving; 10th Nov 2017 at 18:19. Reason: added
Roving
I understand your father's preference very well. He was quite right - twin prop. aircraft of the era (WW2 and post -war piston prop twins were lethal when things went wrong. Safety was never a consideration in the design of these machines, (Apart from the DC-3). Danny (and his generation) just accepted this as normal even tho' the test pilots at Boscombe, and elsewhere had described cockpit layouts of the time as "ergonomic slums". At this time of remembrance it is fitting that the the post-war carnage in the R.A.F. is also remembered.
Ian BB
I understand your father's preference very well. He was quite right - twin prop. aircraft of the era (WW2 and post -war piston prop twins were lethal when things went wrong. Safety was never a consideration in the design of these machines, (Apart from the DC-3). Danny (and his generation) just accepted this as normal even tho' the test pilots at Boscombe, and elsewhere had described cockpit layouts of the time as "ergonomic slums". At this time of remembrance it is fitting that the the post-war carnage in the R.A.F. is also remembered.
Ian BB
Last edited by Ian Burgess-Barber; 10th Nov 2017 at 19:58. Reason: Respect for the DC 3
post -war piston prop twins were lethal
"Carry out a low level circuit but leave the airbrakes out."
So I did to the book apart from the airbrakes.
We were almost vertical as we went through the stratus.
