Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
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offshoreSLF (#11458),
This really links up with "Final Landing" ("Out of the blue" book series - Thread somewhere *) - but it opens up quite a question for us all : how did you feel when you climbed down, handed your flying kit in, and [pilots] wrote "DCO" in the Authorisation Book for the last time ?
Note * - EDIT: "Out of the Blue: The Final Landing" - Here - Military Aviation - of course !
Me: in 1946, as if I'd had a leg cut off. In 1954, no great pang. I'd had my flying years, and they'd been good years, but now the end had come. Today, no particular yen to grab the stick again, although I'm told: "It's like riding a bike - you never forget". It was fun while it lasted !
What do you think, chaps ?
Good luck to the old chap anyhow, hope he enjoyed it ! (can we get him on here, btw ?)
Danny.
PS: (Still small voice: did the BBC ask to have a look at his logbook ? - there are "Walts" about, we had one up here a few years ago, conned BBC "Look North" a treat, and all the local papers hereabouts as well).
This really links up with "Final Landing" ("Out of the blue" book series - Thread somewhere *) - but it opens up quite a question for us all : how did you feel when you climbed down, handed your flying kit in, and [pilots] wrote "DCO" in the Authorisation Book for the last time ?
Note * - EDIT: "Out of the Blue: The Final Landing" - Here - Military Aviation - of course !
Me: in 1946, as if I'd had a leg cut off. In 1954, no great pang. I'd had my flying years, and they'd been good years, but now the end had come. Today, no particular yen to grab the stick again, although I'm told: "It's like riding a bike - you never forget". It was fun while it lasted !
What do you think, chaps ?
Good luck to the old chap anyhow, hope he enjoyed it ! (can we get him on here, btw ?)
Danny.
PS: (Still small voice: did the BBC ask to have a look at his logbook ? - there are "Walts" about, we had one up here a few years ago, conned BBC "Look North" a treat, and all the local papers hereabouts as well).
Last edited by Danny42C; 29th Oct 2017 at 16:11. Reason: Addn.
Danny,
did my last trip in Hercules XV XV 196 on 24 Dec 1996 Lyneham -Split -Lyneham during the Balkan 'unpleasantness'. My choice (as the ALM leader) of route and date of my swansong.
I never looked back as after almost 35 years of non stop flying I had had enough of the 'do more and more with less and less' culture.
Kept my PPL going for a few years with a share in a Super Cub.
Only fly as SLF these days.
did my last trip in Hercules XV XV 196 on 24 Dec 1996 Lyneham -Split -Lyneham during the Balkan 'unpleasantness'. My choice (as the ALM leader) of route and date of my swansong.
I never looked back as after almost 35 years of non stop flying I had had enough of the 'do more and more with less and less' culture.
Kept my PPL going for a few years with a share in a Super Cub.
Only fly as SLF these days.
A good video of the Hendon Sunderland, ML824, showing well its cavernous interior.
Many others on YouTube, including one from the Pembroke Dock Heritage Centre and its bid to salvage T9044 which sank in the Haven in 1940.
Many others on YouTube, including one from the Pembroke Dock Heritage Centre and its bid to salvage T9044 which sank in the Haven in 1940.
Roving - that's the man' Last seen as Captain of Barton on Sea Golf Club. Had seen in the Lymington Times that I had become Secretary of Royal Lymington Yacht Club, and called in to invite me to lunch, a very kind and much appreciated gesture
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Thanks, Chugalug. Just shown that to the OH ... it was her father's aircraft in WW2, when he was Nav/Head Chef. Apparently he excelled in the latter, and must have been competent in the former as he (and crew) survived! He was invited to Hendon when NS-Z was officially unveiled ... I think he was Lord Mayor of Wstminster at the time.
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For those who enjoyed the book "The Go Between" there is a wonderful line
"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there".
It must be a sign of my advancing age or perhaps that this year is not merely the 100th anniversary of my father's birth, but almost exactly a decade since his death, that I seem to have a clearer memory of events in my childhood associated with my dad's career, than at any time.
If it helps prevent the onset of Alzheimer's disease, I make no apology for sharing those wonderful memories.
The Royal Air Force was in the 1950's and 1960's very protective of the "brats" especially the ex pat brats. I hope it still is.
RAF KL had a very busy runway. Wikipedia suggests it had more air movements than any other runway in the World at that time. Whether that is true or not, is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the MQs were on a hill which rose up on one side of the camp and from the garden I had a clear view of the runway.
KL was not a holiday resort like Seletar. No beach or sailing club. I do not even think it had a tennis court. But it did have a swimming pool with a NAAFI where I would while away time. Aside from the pool there was the cubs. School was on an Army Camp k/a Batu Cantonment, to which I was bused every day along with other brats living on the Camp, one of whom and just four months younger than me, was the son of the Staish.
All the operational parts of the Camp were of course off limits.
For one day in the month of April 1958 that rule was lifted. In the afternoon and early evening (it went dark at 6.00pm) I was taken to the Tower and later as dusk descended, travelled along the runway in the fire engine watching the firemen light the gooseneck flares.
KL was not only a RAF Station but was also 'the civilian aerodrome for the capital of the country. The year before, in 1957, Malaya had gained its independence and had its own airline and and was creating its own air force
I cannot recall whether all three ATC in the Tower were civilian, but one was certainly a Malaysian.
How do I recall that?
Because there came a point where food was produced and we all tucked in. Two of the men laughed and one of them explained that the third man was a Muslim and as it was the festival of Ramadan, he was supposed to fast until dusk -- and the speaker exclaimed, which caused great mirth -- he cheats.
I checked, as I usually do before posting these recollections, and the month long festival of Ramadan was indeed in the month of April in 1958.
So what great event gave rise to a 9 year old boy being invited to learn about ATC and lighting runway flares? It certainly was not my birthday. that is in November.
The answer is provided by a varnished broken wooden spar which bears the words "Chas, in memory of our arrival at Fort Langkap, Frank".
On 16 April 1958 Frank Barnes, the OC of 194 Sqn (later stationed at Tern Hill when my dad was at Shawbury) flew my dad in a Sycamore to conduct an aerial survey of a Single Engine Pioneer which one of the pilots on B Flight 267 Sqn, had managed to park on the jungle canopy which rises up to 200 feet, when making the near vertical climb from Fort Langkap.
I have some wonderful colour slides my dad took of the Single Pin resting on top of the trees, together with a photograph of Frank Barnes wearing his bone dome grinning through the front screen of the Sycamore as my dad took his picture.
Why the broken spar and the photograph? The Sycamore lost power and it came crashing down through the canopy to the ground below.Needless to say it was a write-off.
The golden rule the pilots were taught on the jungle survival course was "always stay with the aircraft".
When a Valetta came down, sadly killing the air crew, the loaders in back, who had been instructed to belt-up, survived. But one had decided to try to hack his way out of the jungle. Although the Valetta was quickly discovered, it took the SAS two days to find the young man who had wandered off.
I do not know how long it took to find my dad and Frank Barnes and extract them, but my guess is that the decision was taken that I should be occupied well away from the house until my dad's status was established and communicated to my mother.
I did speak to my dad about this incident 10 years ago. His memory was very clear about it and he proudly told me that he had a small gash which did not prevent him flying 24 hours later.
As for the survey, he told me he wanted to see if the Single Pin could be extracted and repaired. Alas like the Sycamore, it was a write-off.
A postscript is that Wing Commander Frank Barnes AFC Rtd. went out to the Middle East when he left the Service to Abu Dhabi's Defence Force and later run an aviation company in Bahrain and tried to persuade my dad to go with him. As in 1946, my dad politely declined.
Gulf Daily News » Local News » Second World War hero Frank Barnes mourned
"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there".
It must be a sign of my advancing age or perhaps that this year is not merely the 100th anniversary of my father's birth, but almost exactly a decade since his death, that I seem to have a clearer memory of events in my childhood associated with my dad's career, than at any time.
If it helps prevent the onset of Alzheimer's disease, I make no apology for sharing those wonderful memories.
The Royal Air Force was in the 1950's and 1960's very protective of the "brats" especially the ex pat brats. I hope it still is.
RAF KL had a very busy runway. Wikipedia suggests it had more air movements than any other runway in the World at that time. Whether that is true or not, is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the MQs were on a hill which rose up on one side of the camp and from the garden I had a clear view of the runway.
KL was not a holiday resort like Seletar. No beach or sailing club. I do not even think it had a tennis court. But it did have a swimming pool with a NAAFI where I would while away time. Aside from the pool there was the cubs. School was on an Army Camp k/a Batu Cantonment, to which I was bused every day along with other brats living on the Camp, one of whom and just four months younger than me, was the son of the Staish.
All the operational parts of the Camp were of course off limits.
For one day in the month of April 1958 that rule was lifted. In the afternoon and early evening (it went dark at 6.00pm) I was taken to the Tower and later as dusk descended, travelled along the runway in the fire engine watching the firemen light the gooseneck flares.
KL was not only a RAF Station but was also 'the civilian aerodrome for the capital of the country. The year before, in 1957, Malaya had gained its independence and had its own airline and and was creating its own air force
I cannot recall whether all three ATC in the Tower were civilian, but one was certainly a Malaysian.
How do I recall that?
Because there came a point where food was produced and we all tucked in. Two of the men laughed and one of them explained that the third man was a Muslim and as it was the festival of Ramadan, he was supposed to fast until dusk -- and the speaker exclaimed, which caused great mirth -- he cheats.
I checked, as I usually do before posting these recollections, and the month long festival of Ramadan was indeed in the month of April in 1958.
So what great event gave rise to a 9 year old boy being invited to learn about ATC and lighting runway flares? It certainly was not my birthday. that is in November.
The answer is provided by a varnished broken wooden spar which bears the words "Chas, in memory of our arrival at Fort Langkap, Frank".
On 16 April 1958 Frank Barnes, the OC of 194 Sqn (later stationed at Tern Hill when my dad was at Shawbury) flew my dad in a Sycamore to conduct an aerial survey of a Single Engine Pioneer which one of the pilots on B Flight 267 Sqn, had managed to park on the jungle canopy which rises up to 200 feet, when making the near vertical climb from Fort Langkap.
I have some wonderful colour slides my dad took of the Single Pin resting on top of the trees, together with a photograph of Frank Barnes wearing his bone dome grinning through the front screen of the Sycamore as my dad took his picture.
Why the broken spar and the photograph? The Sycamore lost power and it came crashing down through the canopy to the ground below.Needless to say it was a write-off.
The golden rule the pilots were taught on the jungle survival course was "always stay with the aircraft".
When a Valetta came down, sadly killing the air crew, the loaders in back, who had been instructed to belt-up, survived. But one had decided to try to hack his way out of the jungle. Although the Valetta was quickly discovered, it took the SAS two days to find the young man who had wandered off.
I do not know how long it took to find my dad and Frank Barnes and extract them, but my guess is that the decision was taken that I should be occupied well away from the house until my dad's status was established and communicated to my mother.
I did speak to my dad about this incident 10 years ago. His memory was very clear about it and he proudly told me that he had a small gash which did not prevent him flying 24 hours later.
As for the survey, he told me he wanted to see if the Single Pin could be extracted and repaired. Alas like the Sycamore, it was a write-off.
A postscript is that Wing Commander Frank Barnes AFC Rtd. went out to the Middle East when he left the Service to Abu Dhabi's Defence Force and later run an aviation company in Bahrain and tried to persuade my dad to go with him. As in 1946, my dad politely declined.
Gulf Daily News » Local News » Second World War hero Frank Barnes mourned
Last edited by roving; 29th Oct 2017 at 19:20. Reason: added detail
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roving (#11467),
Have often used that wonderful quotation myself - and how true ! - you cannot judge the past by the standards of the present.
Now, can anyone identify the source of another quotation which I have used ad nauseam: "We each (all?) had to fight the war we were given" ? ... A "Search this Thread" fingers "kookabat, date 4/7/09, Page 46, #913, as the first user - but the text of that Post makes no mention of the words.
?????
Danny.
..."The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there"...[L.P.Hartley].
Now, can anyone identify the source of another quotation which I have used ad nauseam: "We each (all?) had to fight the war we were given" ? ... A "Search this Thread" fingers "kookabat, date 4/7/09, Page 46, #913, as the first user - but the text of that Post makes no mention of the words.
?????
Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 29th Oct 2017 at 17:16. Reason: Amend.
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Geriaviator, re your #11457 I have checked back on my previous contributions to this estimable thread and much regret that my stock of memoirs (the interesting ones, anyway) is now exhausted, and so anything further from me will be of the tit-bit variety as & when stirred into action by the contributions of others!
Which is a convenient lead-in to WarmToast's superb China Bay pix. Routed one day from Changi to Negombo, we were scheduled to make a quick stop at China Bay. Approaching from the east a straight-in to the long runway was no problem, but as we trundled to the far end after landing there appeared to be a small obstruction ahead - which turned out to be a local with his back to us pushing a large wheelbarrow who looked faintly surprised as, taxying slowly past, I gave him a friendly wave.
I was subsequently informed this was a fairly common occurrence; seeing little use the runway was much frequented by cattle, their inevitable deposits being much appreciated by locals for use on their vegetable gardens; why it was not thought necessary to publicise this fact to visiting aircraft was not explained.
Which is a convenient lead-in to WarmToast's superb China Bay pix. Routed one day from Changi to Negombo, we were scheduled to make a quick stop at China Bay. Approaching from the east a straight-in to the long runway was no problem, but as we trundled to the far end after landing there appeared to be a small obstruction ahead - which turned out to be a local with his back to us pushing a large wheelbarrow who looked faintly surprised as, taxying slowly past, I gave him a friendly wave.
I was subsequently informed this was a fairly common occurrence; seeing little use the runway was much frequented by cattle, their inevitable deposits being much appreciated by locals for use on their vegetable gardens; why it was not thought necessary to publicise this fact to visiting aircraft was not explained.
Single Engine Pioneer which one of the pilots on B Flight 267 Sqn, had managed to park on the jungle canopy which rises up to 200 feet, when making the near vertical climb from Fort Langkap.
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I think the Sunderland was a really beautiful aircraft and so functional. 209 Sqn at Seletar operated them. When the Sunderlands were pensioned off, 267 Sqn was rebranded as 209 Sqm shortly after we left KL, and the following year, with the Emergency in Malaya at an end, 209 moved back to Seletar. In addition to the Single Pins, Pembrokes and DC3s, it acquired Twin Pins.
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In the Pioneering spirit (sorry) let us not forget that 20 Sqn at Tengah acquired a handful (3-4) Single Pins for FAC work when their original operators <insert Sqn No.> disbanded at Seletar. Hunter mates who were already Op were offered the option to convert to type during the latter part of their tour.
This made 20 the last RAF fighter squadron to operate a single piston aircraft
I have a photo or 3, including one Fg Off P Sq***e getting his SP Op Pot at the Gemas jungle strip. Will scan and post on request.
This made 20 the last RAF fighter squadron to operate a single piston aircraft
I have a photo or 3, including one Fg Off P Sq***e getting his SP Op Pot at the Gemas jungle strip. Will scan and post on request.
MPN11
Insert Sqn No. - it was 209 Sqn.
PS was of course a future CAS - 5 of his Cranwell entry were across the island as co-pilots on 48 - 3 of whom I see occasionally, 1 sadly RIP and the other ( a strange chap who was also on 30 with me ) seems to have vanished from the face of the earth!
PS was of course a future CAS - 5 of his Cranwell entry were across the island as co-pilots on 48 - 3 of whom I see occasionally, 1 sadly RIP and the other ( a strange chap who was also on 30 with me ) seems to have vanished from the face of the earth!
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Sempang Airport (ICAO: WMKF) is an airport in Kuala Lumpur. It is also known as TUDM Kuala Lumpur, Old Airport, Sungai Besi Airport or Sempang Air Force Base.
It served as the main airport for Kuala Lumpur from 1952 to 1965 under the name Kuala Lumpur International Airport,[3] until the main airport was moved to Subang International Airport. It was the first airport to serve Kuala Lumpur and currently remains as the only airport to be located within the boundaries of Kuala Lumpur Federal Territory.
Formerly known as RAF Kuala Lumpur, today it is used by the Royal Malaysian Air Force (Malay: Tentera Udara DiRaja Malaysia), Royal Malaysian Police Air Wing, and the air unit of the Malaysian Fire and Rescue Department.
---
Back in the day there were photographs of it which included the Tower but when I last looked they were no longer visible..
Once a week a BOAC Britannia would fly in.
I went to Simpang several times when I was on the Group EU and we did our annual visit to the RMAF. Simpang was fine for the Caribou but for the C130 the TOW had to be considerably reduced. The joke was that as well as consulting the ODM you needed also to consult the railway timetable !
They had a flying club there and it was very nice to sit and have a wind down beer after a busy day.
They had a flying club there and it was very nice to sit and have a wind down beer after a busy day.
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Here you go the year I described yesterday, 1958, RAF KL in colour plus all the operations from there courtesy of the RNAZ, who flew Argosies from there too.