Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
Continuing from the above, if Sanna can send PMs then I too would love to get contact details from him.
I've obtained a section of the 272 Sqn record and it shows that it became known on the squadron on 7 January 1942 that George had been commissioned. This news had presumably been 'in the wind' for some time beforehand so, noting Frank's postwar surprise at this turn of events, I can only surmise that Frank was already a POW by then. (Might we be allowed to know his surname? If he was shot down after 1 November 1941, I might be able to add a little detail.) George himself became a POW almost exactly a month later. Flying with the then CO, Sqn Ldr Hoggarth, he was in one of 4 aircraft tasked against shipping in the Gulf of Sirte on 9 February 1942 - nothing was seen and they attacked a German Repair Unit camp. However, George's aircraft and another did not return and he went on to be an early POW (Serial No 30) in Stalag Luft III. He was a Flt Lt by the time of his release in May 1945 - and it would appear that Frank and he did not come across one another whilst in captivity.
I've obtained a section of the 272 Sqn record and it shows that it became known on the squadron on 7 January 1942 that George had been commissioned. This news had presumably been 'in the wind' for some time beforehand so, noting Frank's postwar surprise at this turn of events, I can only surmise that Frank was already a POW by then. (Might we be allowed to know his surname? If he was shot down after 1 November 1941, I might be able to add a little detail.) George himself became a POW almost exactly a month later. Flying with the then CO, Sqn Ldr Hoggarth, he was in one of 4 aircraft tasked against shipping in the Gulf of Sirte on 9 February 1942 - nothing was seen and they attacked a German Repair Unit camp. However, George's aircraft and another did not return and he went on to be an early POW (Serial No 30) in Stalag Luft III. He was a Flt Lt by the time of his release in May 1945 - and it would appear that Frank and he did not come across one another whilst in captivity.
Last edited by ICM; 21st Apr 2017 at 15:51. Reason: To add a date.
Frank's story - 26 November 1941
Excellent, with that known, there's this:
On 26 November 1941, whilst operating Beaufighters from Landing Ground 10 (Ghrwla), 6 crews of 272 Sqn were tasked for a ground attack on Jedabaya, Soluch and roads in the district. WOp/Observer Sgt Southern was with Sgt Price that day. The unit F540 reports: "The aircraft carried out a low flying attack on Jedabaya aerodrome and the roads in the district, Soluch being obscured by cloud and rain. After shooting down a Caproni 311 over the aerodrome, they badly damaged a Ju 87 and four CR 42s on the ground. One machine, "E," Pilot Sgt Price, Observer Sgt Southern, was shot down by AA fire, but they are believed to be taken prisoner. A formation of four CR 42s was in the air over the aerodrome, one of which was damaged by Flt Lt Campbell in the ensuing shambles. Aircraft"A" returned with front hatch open."
On 26 November 1941, whilst operating Beaufighters from Landing Ground 10 (Ghrwla), 6 crews of 272 Sqn were tasked for a ground attack on Jedabaya, Soluch and roads in the district. WOp/Observer Sgt Southern was with Sgt Price that day. The unit F540 reports: "The aircraft carried out a low flying attack on Jedabaya aerodrome and the roads in the district, Soluch being obscured by cloud and rain. After shooting down a Caproni 311 over the aerodrome, they badly damaged a Ju 87 and four CR 42s on the ground. One machine, "E," Pilot Sgt Price, Observer Sgt Southern, was shot down by AA fire, but they are believed to be taken prisoner. A formation of four CR 42s was in the air over the aerodrome, one of which was damaged by Flt Lt Campbell in the ensuing shambles. Aircraft"A" returned with front hatch open."
Sannatuu ---- George Sproates:
Please contact ICM via this email : [email protected] (10 Sqn Assoc) It will then be forwarded to him and hopefully you will be able to use normal home emails to converse.
Tks. 60plus (icm's co-writer)
Please contact ICM via this email : [email protected] (10 Sqn Assoc) It will then be forwarded to him and hopefully you will be able to use normal home emails to converse.
Tks. 60plus (icm's co-writer)
Fellow followers of this great thread, it has slipped to page two of the Military Forum which will not please Danny at all! While he remains incommunicado, awaiting the Kiss of Life to his beloved laptop, I suggest that we might contemplate the aviation "What If's" of WW2, though I will gladly defer to any other better suggestions in order to keep the ball rolling. So it is with a certain amount of diffidence that I offer my great preoccupation with those dangerous years and ask, what the hell was the Deputy Fuhrer of Germany doing bailing out of a long range Bf110 over Eaglesham Moor on the night of 10th May 1941?
Wiki suggests that he was intending a landing at the airstrip of Dungavel House, home of the Duke of Hamilton then serving as an RAF Wing Commander at RAF Turnhouse, and where he was on duty that night. Other sources suggest that the airstrip was lit for some 15 minutes and that there was a party of senior officers there, including some Poles, who rapidly dispersed when their expected visitor failed to land.
Hess was captured, identified himself as Hauptman Alfred Horn and asked to speak to Hamilton. No record of that interview is known of. Hamilton himself reported personally to Churchill who simply said "Hess or no Hess, I'm off to see the Marx Brothers" at a film screening. Hitler seemed unsurprised when informed of Hess's flight but quickly switched to plan B and disowned his action as that of a madman. Stalin saw it as proof that the British were part of the anti Soviet machinations that culminated in Operation Barbarossa. Certainly lead figures in the British establishment were pro Nazi and fervently anti Communist, including the ex-King. Was Hamilton, a pre-war aviator of some note having overflown Mt Everest in a Westland PV-3 in 1933, a part of that clique? He probably met Hess when visiting Germany for the 1936 Olympic Games as the guest of Hermann Goering, though always denied it.
After the war Hess was tried along with the other Nazi elite at Nurnberg. The Soviets wanted him hung, in the event he served 40 years in Spandau prison, where he died as the result of "the only horizontal ligature ever recorded in a suicide" by someone who suspected that he was murdered.
The "what if" is to my mind if he had successfully landed at Dungavel, what was then to happen....?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Hess
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-765607.html
Wiki suggests that he was intending a landing at the airstrip of Dungavel House, home of the Duke of Hamilton then serving as an RAF Wing Commander at RAF Turnhouse, and where he was on duty that night. Other sources suggest that the airstrip was lit for some 15 minutes and that there was a party of senior officers there, including some Poles, who rapidly dispersed when their expected visitor failed to land.
Hess was captured, identified himself as Hauptman Alfred Horn and asked to speak to Hamilton. No record of that interview is known of. Hamilton himself reported personally to Churchill who simply said "Hess or no Hess, I'm off to see the Marx Brothers" at a film screening. Hitler seemed unsurprised when informed of Hess's flight but quickly switched to plan B and disowned his action as that of a madman. Stalin saw it as proof that the British were part of the anti Soviet machinations that culminated in Operation Barbarossa. Certainly lead figures in the British establishment were pro Nazi and fervently anti Communist, including the ex-King. Was Hamilton, a pre-war aviator of some note having overflown Mt Everest in a Westland PV-3 in 1933, a part of that clique? He probably met Hess when visiting Germany for the 1936 Olympic Games as the guest of Hermann Goering, though always denied it.
After the war Hess was tried along with the other Nazi elite at Nurnberg. The Soviets wanted him hung, in the event he served 40 years in Spandau prison, where he died as the result of "the only horizontal ligature ever recorded in a suicide" by someone who suspected that he was murdered.
The "what if" is to my mind if he had successfully landed at Dungavel, what was then to happen....?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Hess
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-765607.html
Last edited by Chugalug2; 25th Apr 2017 at 22:23.
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Chugalug,
Danny and his Laptop are glad to be back, both firing on all four cylinders. Thank you for rescuing this, our matchless Thread from the "Slough of Despond" (aka Page 2 of Military Aviation); and it would seem that we are several lengths ahead of the upstart "F-35 cancelled ...." and take our rightful place again as the Thread with the most Posts and hits of any "normal" Thread on this Forum. As I've said more than once: "Cliff Leach (RIP), aka 'Cliffnemo', the 'Onlie Begetter', builded better than he knew" when he started it nine years ago.
As for the Hess affair, it has been a mystery from the outset, and all those who knew the real answers will be dead now. The Wiki article reflects the general opinion at the time. In May, 1941 the B.o.B. had been lost by Hitler, an invasion of Britain was "out of the window"; the "blitz" had not broken our resolve; so he had decided to leave us "on the back burner", while he turned his attention to Russia and started "Barbarossa" in the June.
It would make sense to negotiate a peace with us in the meantime, leaving him free to crush Russia as he'd done with France, by a "blitzkrieg" before General Winter came to aid the Russians. Then he could take up the "unfinshed business" with Britain: any "Peace Agreement" made with us would not be worth the paper it was written on. As it was, it all went pear-shaped, and the rest we know.
All this is "rationalising after the event". The young Danny was sweating his way through ITW in a glorious Cornish summer ... and paying little heed to the momentous events passing over his head.
Danny and his Laptop are glad to be back, both firing on all four cylinders. Thank you for rescuing this, our matchless Thread from the "Slough of Despond" (aka Page 2 of Military Aviation); and it would seem that we are several lengths ahead of the upstart "F-35 cancelled ...." and take our rightful place again as the Thread with the most Posts and hits of any "normal" Thread on this Forum. As I've said more than once: "Cliff Leach (RIP), aka 'Cliffnemo', the 'Onlie Begetter', builded better than he knew" when he started it nine years ago.
As for the Hess affair, it has been a mystery from the outset, and all those who knew the real answers will be dead now. The Wiki article reflects the general opinion at the time. In May, 1941 the B.o.B. had been lost by Hitler, an invasion of Britain was "out of the window"; the "blitz" had not broken our resolve; so he had decided to leave us "on the back burner", while he turned his attention to Russia and started "Barbarossa" in the June.
It would make sense to negotiate a peace with us in the meantime, leaving him free to crush Russia as he'd done with France, by a "blitzkrieg" before General Winter came to aid the Russians. Then he could take up the "unfinshed business" with Britain: any "Peace Agreement" made with us would not be worth the paper it was written on. As it was, it all went pear-shaped, and the rest we know.
All this is "rationalising after the event". The young Danny was sweating his way through ITW in a glorious Cornish summer ... and paying little heed to the momentous events passing over his head.
Over the years, yes years, this thread has clearly demonstrated its ability to discuss more than one topic at a time. I therefore would love to see those who know far more than I do discuss the following "What if?".
In the mid 30's, Alan Cobham clearly demonstrated the viability of in flight refuelling as a means of extending the range of aircraft. It seemed that the Air Ministry and the leading lights of the RAF were not interested until after the war.
What if the RAF had used the Cobham system to operate a fleet of maritime aircraft to provide air cover over the Mid Atlantic Gap. If they could have been successful, it would certainly have reduced the effectiveness of the U Boat campaigns in the Atlantic and probably have had a much bigger effect than the bombing of German cities. Would navigation systems at that time have been good enough to enable bombers to rendezvous with tankers? Would contemporary large aircraft carry enough fuel for themselves and anyone else or would they have to set up a Black Buck type of operation?
Are there any Coastal Command types in the virtual crew room who could offer an opinion?
In the mid 30's, Alan Cobham clearly demonstrated the viability of in flight refuelling as a means of extending the range of aircraft. It seemed that the Air Ministry and the leading lights of the RAF were not interested until after the war.
What if the RAF had used the Cobham system to operate a fleet of maritime aircraft to provide air cover over the Mid Atlantic Gap. If they could have been successful, it would certainly have reduced the effectiveness of the U Boat campaigns in the Atlantic and probably have had a much bigger effect than the bombing of German cities. Would navigation systems at that time have been good enough to enable bombers to rendezvous with tankers? Would contemporary large aircraft carry enough fuel for themselves and anyone else or would they have to set up a Black Buck type of operation?
Are there any Coastal Command types in the virtual crew room who could offer an opinion?
P1: I've no Maritime background but, on the nav angle, insofar as it would have affected an ability to rendezvous, I am certainly aware of the Butt Report. Published in mid-1941, it demonstrated that, in general, only one in three Bomber Command aircraft was getting within 5 miles of a target plus a variety of other more dismal conclusions. For Bomber Command, a partial solution was the introduction of Gee - open to jamming - and I don't recall it as having any worthwhile coverage to the west of the UK when using its later versions in the mid-60s.
Danny, great to see you back on thread and, "laptop going well tell the designer chappie". Thank you for having read my post re Hess and the links in it. As you say, young Danny was busy marching up and down again various parts of the Cornish coastline while Hess was talking with the Hitler in the Reich Chancellery mere hours before "going mad" on his demanding flight to enemy shores. In other words, Danny was doing his duty, and no doubt the Deputy Fuhrer was doing his too. My question is what about those waiting to meet him at Dungavel House? Were they doing theirs or were they treating with the enemy, ie committing treason? Was this an official peace attempt authorised by HM Government or, and more likely in my view, an attempt to go behind Churchill's back and facilitate the ill fated attempt by Hitler to "liberate" his lebensraum in the East and enslave the peoples there? We know that Halifax (Foreign Secretary) had led an attempt in cabinet to seek peace with Germany after the fiasco of the "Dunkirk miracle" but failed when Churchill threatened to resign. Now Hess turns up after the Royal Air Force has won the strategically vital battle for day-time Air Superiority over the UK, having missed his arranged reception.
On the face of it all pretty damning, and to cap it all Royal courtiers were dispatched post-haste to recover damning letters from Germany immediately after the war, which have been secured at Windsor Castle ever since. The Duke of Windsor was sent as Governor to fight the war on the Bahamas front. Even so, he had to be closely watched, especially on Wallace's shopping trips to the USA. A bad egg indeed, but any odium that he attracted was more than made up for by the immense effort put in by the King and Queen throughout the war and which probably contributed greatly to the premature death of the former.
I agree that all those then involved in the Hess affair have passed on, but the records haven't. They are still in the main yet to be released but eventually the truth, or much of it, will be known. I would suggest that there is enough smoke blowing around already to indicate a fire. We need to be aware of it, and at least to consider my question. If Hess had landed safely at Dungavel, what then was going to happen?
On the face of it all pretty damning, and to cap it all Royal courtiers were dispatched post-haste to recover damning letters from Germany immediately after the war, which have been secured at Windsor Castle ever since. The Duke of Windsor was sent as Governor to fight the war on the Bahamas front. Even so, he had to be closely watched, especially on Wallace's shopping trips to the USA. A bad egg indeed, but any odium that he attracted was more than made up for by the immense effort put in by the King and Queen throughout the war and which probably contributed greatly to the premature death of the former.
I agree that all those then involved in the Hess affair have passed on, but the records haven't. They are still in the main yet to be released but eventually the truth, or much of it, will be known. I would suggest that there is enough smoke blowing around already to indicate a fire. We need to be aware of it, and at least to consider my question. If Hess had landed safely at Dungavel, what then was going to happen?
Last edited by Chugalug2; 27th Apr 2017 at 08:17.
What if---the Japanese had restarted the Russo Japanese War and had attacked north from Manchuria and cut off the Russian Far East from Moscow instead of attacking Pearl Harbour.
It would have isolated a large part of the Russian eastern army, pivotal in the Russian winter offensive and could have led to the collapse of the USSR. America would have kept out of the way whilst Japan, as part of the Axis Pact, would have overrun the European possessions in the Far East.
Germany, now having the oil resources and the ability to recruit volunteers from eastern Europe would have pushed South through Persia to the Indian Ocean securing India in a pincer between the German and Japanese forces.
Once the Southern Oceans were secured then the delayed invasion of Great Britain, a country that had lost all its overseas resources, money and probably moral could take place. Mussolini would then be free to re-establish his new Roman Empire and would take over North Africa.
You would then be left with three Empires.
The Third Reich encompassing Europe north of the Alps, Asia east to the Urals and central and southern Africa.
The Empire of the Sun would consist of India, a line northwards around Tibet and the Mongolias to the Bering Straight. Leaving Hawaii and the Philippines alone it would include the South Pacific islands and the Indonesian archipelago and everything in between.
The United States of America would be responsible for North and South America, Hawaii, Philippines and Australasia.
As all three would have their hands pretty full they would probably get along very well with each other and it could well lead to a century of peace.
It would have isolated a large part of the Russian eastern army, pivotal in the Russian winter offensive and could have led to the collapse of the USSR. America would have kept out of the way whilst Japan, as part of the Axis Pact, would have overrun the European possessions in the Far East.
Germany, now having the oil resources and the ability to recruit volunteers from eastern Europe would have pushed South through Persia to the Indian Ocean securing India in a pincer between the German and Japanese forces.
Once the Southern Oceans were secured then the delayed invasion of Great Britain, a country that had lost all its overseas resources, money and probably moral could take place. Mussolini would then be free to re-establish his new Roman Empire and would take over North Africa.
You would then be left with three Empires.
The Third Reich encompassing Europe north of the Alps, Asia east to the Urals and central and southern Africa.
The Empire of the Sun would consist of India, a line northwards around Tibet and the Mongolias to the Bering Straight. Leaving Hawaii and the Philippines alone it would include the South Pacific islands and the Indonesian archipelago and everything in between.
The United States of America would be responsible for North and South America, Hawaii, Philippines and Australasia.
As all three would have their hands pretty full they would probably get along very well with each other and it could well lead to a century of peace.
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 27th Apr 2017 at 15:25.
FED, purely on the basis that the whole point of this thread is one of friendly discussion, I'll bite if I may. I agree that if Japan had invaded the USSR while it was also being invaded by Germany in the west, then a Soviet collapse would have been the likely outcome.
However, Japan's strategic needs and ambitions were being thwarted by Washington rather than Moscow. It needed the raw materials that it was denied by US sanctions and saw that the only way to get them was by force. The US Pacific Fleet stood in the way and hence had to be eliminated, thus Pearl Harbour. That it didn't get the most vital part of the Pacific Fleet, the carriers, was what Macmillan famously called, "Events, dear boy, events!". So I don't think that your scenario of no Pearl Harbour is a likely one, and mounting both an attack on the USSR and seizing the "The Greater East Asia Co Prosperity Sphere" was probably seen as taking on too much too soon for the Empire of Japan. Just as well that they didn't do so for us of course, as it would have been the end of the British Empire not to its indigenous populations but to its enemies, as well as leading to the subjugation of the United Kingdom itself as you rightly point out.
As to the final world order of three global empires living in mutual tranquillity, I very much doubt it. Mankind's history is one of war. When we finally go where no man has been before we will take our weapons with us and won't hesitate to use them. That is our way, so aliens beware!
Care to bite on my what if?
However, Japan's strategic needs and ambitions were being thwarted by Washington rather than Moscow. It needed the raw materials that it was denied by US sanctions and saw that the only way to get them was by force. The US Pacific Fleet stood in the way and hence had to be eliminated, thus Pearl Harbour. That it didn't get the most vital part of the Pacific Fleet, the carriers, was what Macmillan famously called, "Events, dear boy, events!". So I don't think that your scenario of no Pearl Harbour is a likely one, and mounting both an attack on the USSR and seizing the "The Greater East Asia Co Prosperity Sphere" was probably seen as taking on too much too soon for the Empire of Japan. Just as well that they didn't do so for us of course, as it would have been the end of the British Empire not to its indigenous populations but to its enemies, as well as leading to the subjugation of the United Kingdom itself as you rightly point out.
As to the final world order of three global empires living in mutual tranquillity, I very much doubt it. Mankind's history is one of war. When we finally go where no man has been before we will take our weapons with us and won't hesitate to use them. That is our way, so aliens beware!
Care to bite on my what if?
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Not arguing with the 'FED' scenario as such, but would Germany and/or Japan actually have had sufficient manpower and materiel to occupy successfully such huge swathes of territory?
Are there any Coastal Command types in the virtual crew room who could offer an opinion?
As far as using the system to extend into the North Atlantic gap is concerned, the nav aids available at the time were not up to guaranteeing a rendezvous over the sea. The only system which might have worked would be for a tanker and a maritime aircraft to fly west in formation, do the refuelling, probably in daylight, and then have the maritime aircraft come off task with enough fuel to recover to base without a further refuel. With all the complication, plus the likelihood of the two losing contact outbound in bad weather, it does not seem practical.
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Chugalug (#10508) has set a hare-and-a-half running here ! I stand in awe of the geopolitcal flights of fancy already mooted, and really cannot add anything useful to the pot.
But it is true that there was a strong undercurrent of "treating with the enemy" in the air during the run-up to, and in the early years of the war. Von Ribbentrop was (according to the popular Press) lionised by London society hostesses (contrary to Wiki's general opinion of him), Edward VII and some members of the aristocracy were known to have been sympathetic to the German cause; and the Chamberlain/Halifax Government would almost certainly have capitulated after what Chugalug called the "Dunkirk Miracle" * but for the intervention of Winston Churchill - for whom the Free World should be eternally grateful.
A fire at Windsor Castle sounds like a good idea ? .... now I come to think of it ....
* (It is my belief - shared by many at the time - that Hitler allowed the 300,000 to escape [ordering Guderian to halt his tanks to enable them to do so], reasoning that we had no option then but to sue for peace on any terms, and meanwhile he couldn't be bothered to have to house and feed such a large number of prisoners).
A curious sideline: it was suggested that the RAF would never bomb Hanover - because George VI was of the line of Hanoverian Kings ! (in fact, we bombed the place flat, like everywhere else).
My "What If ?"s are on a much smaller scale. What if the Japanese 28th Army Commander in Arakan had set his Oscars on our "boxes" of VVs, which were daily unearthing his defensive bunkers in his '43/'44 retreat ? We wouldn't have stood a chance (all the Hurricane pilots who'd done "fighter affiliation" training exercises with us told us so). ..... bye-bye Danny and "Stew" !
Why didn't he - it was such an obvious thing to do ! But he didn't. .... What if Truman had said "No" to the Hiroshima Bomb ? .... You can go on for ever.
Danny.
PS: Quite off-Thread - but if you're one of the few who've never seen BBC1's "Peter Kay's Car Share", do so on iPlayer ASAP !
But it is true that there was a strong undercurrent of "treating with the enemy" in the air during the run-up to, and in the early years of the war. Von Ribbentrop was (according to the popular Press) lionised by London society hostesses (contrary to Wiki's general opinion of him), Edward VII and some members of the aristocracy were known to have been sympathetic to the German cause; and the Chamberlain/Halifax Government would almost certainly have capitulated after what Chugalug called the "Dunkirk Miracle" * but for the intervention of Winston Churchill - for whom the Free World should be eternally grateful.
...damning letters from Germany immediately after the war, which have been secured at Windsor Castle ever since...
* (It is my belief - shared by many at the time - that Hitler allowed the 300,000 to escape [ordering Guderian to halt his tanks to enable them to do so], reasoning that we had no option then but to sue for peace on any terms, and meanwhile he couldn't be bothered to have to house and feed such a large number of prisoners).
A curious sideline: it was suggested that the RAF would never bomb Hanover - because George VI was of the line of Hanoverian Kings ! (in fact, we bombed the place flat, like everywhere else).
My "What If ?"s are on a much smaller scale. What if the Japanese 28th Army Commander in Arakan had set his Oscars on our "boxes" of VVs, which were daily unearthing his defensive bunkers in his '43/'44 retreat ? We wouldn't have stood a chance (all the Hurricane pilots who'd done "fighter affiliation" training exercises with us told us so). ..... bye-bye Danny and "Stew" !
Why didn't he - it was such an obvious thing to do ! But he didn't. .... What if Truman had said "No" to the Hiroshima Bomb ? .... You can go on for ever.
Danny.
PS: Quite off-Thread - but if you're one of the few who've never seen BBC1's "Peter Kay's Car Share", do so on iPlayer ASAP !
Last edited by Danny42C; 27th Apr 2017 at 14:25. Reason: Spacing and Add PS.
but would Germany and/or Japan actually have had sufficient manpower and materiel to occupy successfully such huge swathes of territory?
America would have stayed out of it. Roosevelt had assisted the UK effectively as a one man band and as another election was coming up the American population almost certainly would have elected a President who presented a 'no interference America First' policy. Their worries about the Japanese threatening the Philippines would have been settled by an arrangement where the USA became responsible for Australasia.
Then somebody would have invented the atom bomb.
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 27th Apr 2017 at 17:58.
Danny, sorry about the hare. At a word it will be swiftly despatched, skinned, and served up as stew. The fur should come in handy for lining out your boots jungle aircrew as well. As you say geopolitics aren't really our game. I was intending for aviation related what ifs, and pulse 1 got the idea nicely with his maritime refuelling query. It illustrates the limitations of WWII air navigation as well as air refuelling that the air gap was closed not by long range reconnaissance aircraft but rather by short range ones flying from escort carriers.
It was those very same limitations, of navigation and range that makes Hess's flight so remarkable. His aircraft crashed within 12 miles of his intended landing site which was now blacked out, and would have been less if he had not been delayed by the difficulty of abandoning it. He may have been at the top of the Nazi hierarchy, but he must also have been a damned good pilot!
It was those very same limitations, of navigation and range that makes Hess's flight so remarkable. His aircraft crashed within 12 miles of his intended landing site which was now blacked out, and would have been less if he had not been delayed by the difficulty of abandoning it. He may have been at the top of the Nazi hierarchy, but he must also have been a damned good pilot!
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Whatever Hess's intentions were, it seems a travesty of justice to lock him up in Spandau prison for 40 plus years. He had obviously decided to abandon the Reich (High Treason) at great risk to himself and one would have to assume he had some good intentions in mind?Presumably he'd decided by May 1941 things were never going to end well with Hitler running the show and something drastic had to be done..? Shame we'll never know..
Further to Pulse1's "what if...", AAR would surely have turned the Mitchell(?) raid on Tokyo into the forerunner of the BlackBuck and put mainland Japan in greater jeopardy. However, would this in itself have been enough to sway the tenacity of the Imperial hierarchy to pursue the war come what may?
P.S. Great to have you and your laptop back firing on all four Danny!
P.S. Great to have you and your laptop back firing on all four Danny!