Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
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Fantom Zorbin (#10477),
Another of the same: who remembers steam wagons on the roads (and steam-rollers ?) I can still hear the quick "chuff-chuff-chuff", as the roller paced out its "beat". Infuriating things to be stuck behind on a narrow country road.
The steam lorries (Fodens ?) were even more fearsome beasts. (Limited to 20 mph, and just as well) they hauled huge loads. Cabs must've been nice and warm in winter, but hellish in summer.
Nice man took away Danny's laptop plus charger cable this morning, keep fingers crossed. Meanwhile D. going even further round the bend as, for the hundredth time, he pokes at a touchscreen that ain't there !
(Sorry, Mr Moderator, should be in "Nostalgia", but bear with us greybeards, please !)
...Gosh, that brought back a very long forgotten memory...
The steam lorries (Fodens ?) were even more fearsome beasts. (Limited to 20 mph, and just as well) they hauled huge loads. Cabs must've been nice and warm in winter, but hellish in summer.
Nice man took away Danny's laptop plus charger cable this morning, keep fingers crossed. Meanwhile D. going even further round the bend as, for the hundredth time, he pokes at a touchscreen that ain't there !
(Sorry, Mr Moderator, should be in "Nostalgia", but bear with us greybeards, please !)
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Wander00 (#10484) and Molemot (#10481),
Seconded ! (Dads in the old days were able to do things like:..."My Dad made our first TV set, out of old airborne radar sets".....)
Recalls the hoary old chestnut: "Adam was the first wireless hobbyist - he built a loudspeaker out of his spare parts !"
('Ware incoming')
Seconded ! (Dads in the old days were able to do things like:..."My Dad made our first TV set, out of old airborne radar sets".....)
Recalls the hoary old chestnut: "Adam was the first wireless hobbyist - he built a loudspeaker out of his spare parts !"
('Ware incoming')
Last edited by Danny42C; 19th Apr 2017 at 14:24. Reason: Close bracket.
My interest in Radio/radar stemmed from my uncle who built the first TV set I ever saw. If memory serves it was a greenish 9 inch flickering screen (VCR 97 tube ?) in a large wooden cabinet. He had been in the RN and had serviced some of the first radar sets.
TVs, homemade or bought, were way outside the reach of Chugalug minor, but he did get to view one with a 9" screen when visiting his grandparents in Southgate, London. There the afternoon/ evening offerings of the Crystal Palace transmitter (as seen nightly at the start of BBC Television Newsreel) could be partaken. I remember being particularly impressed by a cowboy serial, which I was left alone to enjoy while the grownups did whatever grownups did, because in the inevitable shootout real smoke emanated from the TV! Having looked in to check on me, my Grandfather was less impressed though, quickly pulling the plug on the set and ushering me from the room. The repair man was duly called for to administer his usual magic, and once again the potter's wheel resumed normal operation.
We had practical electronics classes in RAF cadet training, for which we had to provide our own projects. It seemed appropriate therefore that the eponymous magazine was featuring just such a project; a tape recorder that required inter alia a wind-up gramophone motor and an ex-Army No. 38 walkie talkie set. I tracked both down, the first from a junk shop, the second from the local government surplus store that was then in every High Street. The first stage was to rewire the No. 38 set to become an audio amplifier. Alas it never happened. despite much (too much?) soldering and testing not a squeak emerged. Just as well perhaps, because stage 2 was to create a play/record head that required windings on a mu-metal armature. Neither junk shop nor surplus store could oblige with mu-metal and I abandoned the project with some relief, for it was obviously aimed at those far more technically accomplished than I!
We had practical electronics classes in RAF cadet training, for which we had to provide our own projects. It seemed appropriate therefore that the eponymous magazine was featuring just such a project; a tape recorder that required inter alia a wind-up gramophone motor and an ex-Army No. 38 walkie talkie set. I tracked both down, the first from a junk shop, the second from the local government surplus store that was then in every High Street. The first stage was to rewire the No. 38 set to become an audio amplifier. Alas it never happened. despite much (too much?) soldering and testing not a squeak emerged. Just as well perhaps, because stage 2 was to create a play/record head that required windings on a mu-metal armature. Neither junk shop nor surplus store could oblige with mu-metal and I abandoned the project with some relief, for it was obviously aimed at those far more technically accomplished than I!
Last edited by Chugalug2; 19th Apr 2017 at 15:12.
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The Cobbler should stick to his Last.
Chugalug (#10487),
This sort of thing is always best left to the Skilled Man.
As Belloc put it:
"Lord Finchley tried to mend the Electric Light
Himself. It struck him dead: And serve him right!
It is the business of the wealthy man
To give employment to the artisan."
On my Resettlement Course, I was a "brickie" (my hod-carrier a Signals Colonel).
We built a wall ..... It fell down.
This sort of thing is always best left to the Skilled Man.
As Belloc put it:
"Lord Finchley tried to mend the Electric Light
Himself. It struck him dead: And serve him right!
It is the business of the wealthy man
To give employment to the artisan."
On my Resettlement Course, I was a "brickie" (my hod-carrier a Signals Colonel).
We built a wall ..... It fell down.
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My 'Resettlement' consisted of starting to do full-time what I had been doing part-time, as a Secondary Duty, for some years. I assume I logged that as part of my massive "Terminal Leave" package, which ran from August to February 
Chugalug.
Surely Alexandra Palace - Ally Pally - for reception in Southgate, not Crystal Palace?
I'd never thought about it but I suppose it's quite obvious there'd be a lot of ex-servicemen with radio and radar experience capable of building a TV at that time.
I still wonder where my granddad, as a carpenter with no military service, got his knowledge.
Surely Alexandra Palace - Ally Pally - for reception in Southgate, not Crystal Palace?
I'd never thought about it but I suppose it's quite obvious there'd be a lot of ex-servicemen with radio and radar experience capable of building a TV at that time.
I still wonder where my granddad, as a carpenter with no military service, got his knowledge.
As part of the electronics syllabus at the Towers we had to build a superhet radio. Mine worked, but not for long. It burst into flames on my bedside locker which cost me the price of the replacement locker.
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As part of the electronics syllabus at the Towers we had to build a superhet radio. Mine worked, but not for long. It burst into flames on my bedside locker which cost me the price of the replacement locker.
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Hello ORAC,
The problem is that in times gone by, things were built to last and were repairable.
That's why my 1967 Mini (souped up) is still on the road.
Modern stuff is designed with a limited lifespan in mind...
The plastic bits on my friends expensive European car are starting to look "tatty" for example...
The problem is that in times gone by, things were built to last and were repairable.
That's why my 1967 Mini (souped up
) is still on the road.Modern stuff is designed with a limited lifespan in mind...
The plastic bits on my friends expensive European car are starting to look "tatty" for example...
I doubt people will be looking after and repairing 2008 vintage computers in 50 years time (although by that time, more than likely termites will be the dominant species on the planet, again)..
DH fan :-
Of course you are right, and I stand corrected. Indeed, it was the only transmitter until replaced by Crystal Palace in the 50's, though it resumed transmissions later as a UHF relay:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexan...vision_station
Oh, and there's a WWII aviation connection also, as it was used to bend the Luftwaffe's Y-Gerat beams during the Blitz. The puny UHF dipoles seen now are a sad reflection of the impressive wire antennae that festooned it in those days, and as featured on the nightly Newsreel as I mentioned above.
It was the "People's Palace" and it is good that it has been restored and still sports its original mast atop one of the towers:-
BBC - The Birth of TV - Ally Pally - History of the BBC
Surely Alexandra Palace - Ally Pally - for reception in Southgate, not Crystal Palace?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexan...vision_station
Oh, and there's a WWII aviation connection also, as it was used to bend the Luftwaffe's Y-Gerat beams during the Blitz. The puny UHF dipoles seen now are a sad reflection of the impressive wire antennae that festooned it in those days, and as featured on the nightly Newsreel as I mentioned above.
It was the "People's Palace" and it is good that it has been restored and still sports its original mast atop one of the towers:-
BBC - The Birth of TV - Ally Pally - History of the BBC
mmitch
I could see the Crystal Palace aerial from my bedroom window when I was a kid.
When we had a TV installed the aerial man said, grumpily "Why d'you wanna haerial, you're close enough to the mast to get a signal on the bottom of a ****** beer bottle!"
"Daddy what does ****** mean?"
A 3' length of cable was all the aerial their TV needed
When we had a TV installed the aerial man said, grumpily "Why d'you wanna haerial, you're close enough to the mast to get a signal on the bottom of a ****** beer bottle!"
"Daddy what does ****** mean?"
Here's Ally Pally in its prime:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amgzdqbdsHQ
Great lead story, and purely coincidental I hasten to add (did I mention that we've been hosting the Flying Scotsman loco at the Bluebell in the last week? No? Well I have now!
Good tune isn't it? Girls in Grey by Charles Williams and dedicated to the wartime Women's Junior Air Corps that became the Girls Venture Corps Air Cadets, so no thread drift therefore! He also composed the themes for Dick Barton (Devil's Gallop), Jennings at School (The Old Clockmaker), and the Potter's Wheel interlude (The Young Ballerina)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amgzdqbdsHQ
Great lead story, and purely coincidental I hasten to add (did I mention that we've been hosting the Flying Scotsman loco at the Bluebell in the last week? No? Well I have now!
Good tune isn't it? Girls in Grey by Charles Williams and dedicated to the wartime Women's Junior Air Corps that became the Girls Venture Corps Air Cadets, so no thread drift therefore! He also composed the themes for Dick Barton (Devil's Gallop), Jennings at School (The Old Clockmaker), and the Potter's Wheel interlude (The Young Ballerina)
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Our home made telly grew as the years went by...first it got a second channel when ITV started, then the screen size went up gradually, as broken larger devices were obtained and repaired, ending at 19" which was all the cabinet would take! I made my first wireless receiver at the age of 8, listening to "Journey into Space" in bed... and it was the Workshop Radio for decades until replaced by an FM shop bought model to receive the very disappointing Jazz FM.
Once the bug is implanted, it never goes away fully... I was travelling south on the French canals in 1981 when the Captain's Wife wanted to watch the Royal Wedding. We all ended up in an hotel in Dijon...the TV lounge was crowded to overflowing...and we settled down to watch. It was in black and white....I peered at the set, and there was a logo involving the three primary colours, red, green and blue. Hmmmmm. So I strode to the set and biffed it with my clenched fist.......TECHNICOLOR!!! Or, at least, SECAM. The room burst out in spontaneous applause and my glass was rapidly refilled.....
Once the bug is implanted, it never goes away fully... I was travelling south on the French canals in 1981 when the Captain's Wife wanted to watch the Royal Wedding. We all ended up in an hotel in Dijon...the TV lounge was crowded to overflowing...and we settled down to watch. It was in black and white....I peered at the set, and there was a logo involving the three primary colours, red, green and blue. Hmmmmm. So I strode to the set and biffed it with my clenched fist.......TECHNICOLOR!!! Or, at least, SECAM. The room burst out in spontaneous applause and my glass was rapidly refilled.....
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Our TVs also grew bigger and more colourful. More than 2 channels, too! Now we have these incredibly cheap HD flatscreen things, and Sky channels up the ying-yang ... and there's atill bu66er all to watch*
* Apart from an endless loop tape of Fools and Horses, As Time Goes By, Keeping Up Appearances
* Apart from an endless loop tape of Fools and Horses, As Time Goes By, Keeping Up Appearances
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G Sproates
Secondly but most importantly – Pulse1, I am so terribly sorry to hear about Frank! It does sound like he was blessed with a brilliant neighbour and friend who could make sure his story was voiced.
To wrap up my enquiries about George I finally managed to talk to the rest of the family to get a few more bits of information. George did die in ’71 (my late ’60 was slightly off) and according to his daughters he had a close friend called Frank who was the godfather to his eldest daughter! The family lost contact after George died and were sad to hear of Frank’s passing. In terms of the info from Frank the only anomaly I could find was that George was based in Episkopi in Cyprus and not in Akrotiri. I think this is probably enough to say that we are talking about the same man.
George’s family have fond memories of that time in Cyprus, however they do not have much information or stories about his time training to be a navigator (with Frank) or during the war.
For this info I would be very grateful and welcome all you can find but I think my takeaway here is to grasp the opportunity to ask questions while there is still time..
Thank you again all !
Sanna
George Sproates
Sannatuu: Thanks for coming back on this - and I'm now certain we were dealing with the same chap. I've found a bit more since the last exchange and I'd hoped we might continue offline to investigate George's postwar career. I have just tried to send you my personal email address via the PM system but was unable to do so. I can't say whether you were blocked by choice or by the system - I've a feeling there's a rule that you can't use PMs until you have posted a minimum number of times, but I can't find it right now! But I'm sure we'll come up with something.
Sanna,
Thank you for your kind words, largely undeserved I think.
It is interesting how this amazing thread takes little twists and turns along the way and now, thanks to you, we have discovered more about the link between Frank and George Sproates. I have established that Frank's daughter Jane would quite like to renew her links with George's family who she remembers well. Before George's untimely death she met with his family on several occasions and I believe that Frank would have been delighted to know that his story, so reluctantly told, provided the stimulus to restore the links between the families.
It seems that you cannot receive PMs but you may be able to send them. If you can, please let me have some contact details and I will pass them to Jane.
The reference to Akrotiri was probably an assumption made either by Frank or myself. We just knew that he was stationed in Cyprus.
I am afraid that I cannot add much to the story about their common experience during their training in the RAF. I know that they were both sent to Navigation School after successfully going solo in Tiger Moths and they were both very disappointed to be taken off the Pilot course. In those early days Frank was convinced that George was destined for a career on the stage and, on his return from 4 years or so as a POW, he was most surprised to discover that George was now well established into a career as an RAF officer and a gentleman. With some amusement, he further attributed that success to George's considerable skills as an actor.
Another poster, Walter603, served with 272 Sqdn and he may remember something of George's life after Frank was taken prisoner. Might be worth a try.
Thank you for your kind words, largely undeserved I think.
It is interesting how this amazing thread takes little twists and turns along the way and now, thanks to you, we have discovered more about the link between Frank and George Sproates. I have established that Frank's daughter Jane would quite like to renew her links with George's family who she remembers well. Before George's untimely death she met with his family on several occasions and I believe that Frank would have been delighted to know that his story, so reluctantly told, provided the stimulus to restore the links between the families.
It seems that you cannot receive PMs but you may be able to send them. If you can, please let me have some contact details and I will pass them to Jane.
The reference to Akrotiri was probably an assumption made either by Frank or myself. We just knew that he was stationed in Cyprus.
I am afraid that I cannot add much to the story about their common experience during their training in the RAF. I know that they were both sent to Navigation School after successfully going solo in Tiger Moths and they were both very disappointed to be taken off the Pilot course. In those early days Frank was convinced that George was destined for a career on the stage and, on his return from 4 years or so as a POW, he was most surprised to discover that George was now well established into a career as an RAF officer and a gentleman. With some amusement, he further attributed that success to George's considerable skills as an actor.
Another poster, Walter603, served with 272 Sqdn and he may remember something of George's life after Frank was taken prisoner. Might be worth a try.