Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
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MPN11 (your #9329),
Poking about on Google, seems that the often quoted military advice: "Get there fustent with the mostest !", which I attributed to a General "Stonewall" Jackson somewhere here, was really spoken by a General Nathan Forrest of the Confederate Army (just thought I'd mention it !)
From Nov-Dec 1941, I was at Gunter Field (Montgomery, ALA). Montgomery is the State Capital and they call it: "The Cradle of the Confederacy". We quickly learned that the Civil War was far from over; the usual reference to their Northern cousins was: "Those Goddam Yankees". The annual "Blue v Grey" Football game put Celtic/Rangers in the shade for mayhem - and anyone heard humming or whistling "Marching through Georgia" would be lucky to escape with his life !
[From Wiki]:
Oops !
Totting-up Wiki figures, it apperars that the total of Army deaths in the Civil War (estimated as 750K) exceeds the total in all US wars since (633k - my tot from Wiki figures), which shows what an yet unheald wound it has inflicted on the American spiritual psyche..
D.
Poking about on Google, seems that the often quoted military advice: "Get there fustent with the mostest !", which I attributed to a General "Stonewall" Jackson somewhere here, was really spoken by a General Nathan Forrest of the Confederate Army (just thought I'd mention it !)
From Nov-Dec 1941, I was at Gunter Field (Montgomery, ALA). Montgomery is the State Capital and they call it: "The Cradle of the Confederacy". We quickly learned that the Civil War was far from over; the usual reference to their Northern cousins was: "Those Goddam Yankees". The annual "Blue v Grey" Football game put Celtic/Rangers in the shade for mayhem - and anyone heard humming or whistling "Marching through Georgia" would be lucky to escape with his life !
[From Wiki]:
...and an English town mistakenly thought the tune was appropriate to welcome southern American troops in World War II.....
Totting-up Wiki figures, it apperars that the total of Army deaths in the Civil War (estimated as 750K) exceeds the total in all US wars since (633k - my tot from Wiki figures), which shows what an yet unheald wound it has inflicted on the American spiritual psyche..
D.
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Flt Lt John Dunbar ( RIP) Five into four won't go
Taken from two tapes
MPN11 - many thanks for the PM - I shall scan some photos.
Chug - thinking back ten or so years, I recall three stories John told of his training.
Most of the Canadian instructors were gruff ex-bush pilots who flew by the seat of their pants. For the first few months John didn't get on with his instructor though after an exchange in a downtown bar they became firm friends. On the first flight John was climbing away when a voice came from the back " I said eighty, NOT eighty one". I did find a short bit on tape of another incident. "P/O Moon was lacking in confidence so his instructor thought a very mild beat up of the airfield might help. Unfortunately he misjudged the height of the hangar and there was this very sorry looking Anson stuck on the hangar roof. We eventually got ladders and managed to get him down. He was a lovely chap but was not in very good shape, but he did come back to us and said he would prefer another instructor"
John went on to instruct over two years on the Tiger Moth and the Cornell. Flying from32 EFTS at Bowden one day his pupil was blinded by the and snow in a turn and caught a tree with the aircraft's wingtip. In the ensuing crash both wings were torn off, the wreckage being scattered for nearly a mile. They were trapped in the fuselage for nearly an hour before help came.
" As an SFTS flying instructor you would on many occasions fly eight hours of circuits and bumps a day. I recently told an Air Commodore this and he couldn't believe it - there it is in my log book. You would stop for refuelling and lunch and don't forget, sometimes the temperature would be twenty degrees below zero. It was bloody hard work. Instructing on the Tiger Moth the rules of the game were very simple - you had four pupils in the flight that you taught in and the object of the exercise was in the sixty hours you had with them dual and solo you got them to a stage where they would pass the CFI's test. What put the kybosh on instructing for me was an instruction that came out that 90% had to pass out regardless. The directive from the Air Ministry in'42/'43 was such that we could not wash out more than 10% regardless of standard. We were all very unhappy at this. The words cannon fodder spring to mind.
The only way out of Canada was to put up too many blacks and were deemed undesirable in Canada. Perhaps burning the Co's wooden bungalow down at 3 am in the morning was a step too far. Anyway I was shipped back to the UK in disgrace and after a week or so of leave was instructed to report to Adastral House. ( John left Canda with 2,000+ hors and a rating of exceptional as a night flying instructor ) Knocking on an office door I was bid enter and was surprised to see sitting behind a desk an Air Commodore. Oh dear oh dear thought I,not a good idea to burn down the CO's bungalow"
To be continued
Taken from two tapes
MPN11 - many thanks for the PM - I shall scan some photos.
Chug - thinking back ten or so years, I recall three stories John told of his training.
Most of the Canadian instructors were gruff ex-bush pilots who flew by the seat of their pants. For the first few months John didn't get on with his instructor though after an exchange in a downtown bar they became firm friends. On the first flight John was climbing away when a voice came from the back " I said eighty, NOT eighty one". I did find a short bit on tape of another incident. "P/O Moon was lacking in confidence so his instructor thought a very mild beat up of the airfield might help. Unfortunately he misjudged the height of the hangar and there was this very sorry looking Anson stuck on the hangar roof. We eventually got ladders and managed to get him down. He was a lovely chap but was not in very good shape, but he did come back to us and said he would prefer another instructor"
John went on to instruct over two years on the Tiger Moth and the Cornell. Flying from32 EFTS at Bowden one day his pupil was blinded by the and snow in a turn and caught a tree with the aircraft's wingtip. In the ensuing crash both wings were torn off, the wreckage being scattered for nearly a mile. They were trapped in the fuselage for nearly an hour before help came.
" As an SFTS flying instructor you would on many occasions fly eight hours of circuits and bumps a day. I recently told an Air Commodore this and he couldn't believe it - there it is in my log book. You would stop for refuelling and lunch and don't forget, sometimes the temperature would be twenty degrees below zero. It was bloody hard work. Instructing on the Tiger Moth the rules of the game were very simple - you had four pupils in the flight that you taught in and the object of the exercise was in the sixty hours you had with them dual and solo you got them to a stage where they would pass the CFI's test. What put the kybosh on instructing for me was an instruction that came out that 90% had to pass out regardless. The directive from the Air Ministry in'42/'43 was such that we could not wash out more than 10% regardless of standard. We were all very unhappy at this. The words cannon fodder spring to mind.
The only way out of Canada was to put up too many blacks and were deemed undesirable in Canada. Perhaps burning the Co's wooden bungalow down at 3 am in the morning was a step too far. Anyway I was shipped back to the UK in disgrace and after a week or so of leave was instructed to report to Adastral House. ( John left Canda with 2,000+ hors and a rating of exceptional as a night flying instructor ) Knocking on an office door I was bid enter and was surprised to see sitting behind a desk an Air Commodore. Oh dear oh dear thought I,not a good idea to burn down the CO's bungalow"
To be continued
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Originally Posted by Danny42C
Totting-up Wiki figures, it apperars that the total of Army deaths in the Civil War (estimated as 750K) exceeds the total in all US wars since (633k - my tot from Wiki figures), which shows what an yet unheald wound it has inflicted on the American spiritual psyche..
Of course, most of the battles were found along Napoleonic lines, with large formations advancing across open ground in the face of artillery and rifle fire from [often entrenched] defenders. It's little wonder the troops were mown down in large numbers. A lot like the Somme et al, really, but without the machine guns.
BB:-
That encapsulates the very special quality of this thread. You instantly transport us back to those endlessly demanding strictures of our instructors. For pity's sake what did they want, blood? No, they wanted us to become proficient and hence live, and at least in the membership of this thread they clearly succeeded. We owe them everything. Thank you for reminding us of that simple fact and of their selfless dedication.
You have answered my call in full, Sir, thank you! The snippets you posted are as manna from heaven, for they tell us far more about John Dunbar and of the thousands of others like him who trained in far flung places in order to carry the fight to the enemy than a list of units, stations, and aircraft. Lots more please, and here's hoping that the missing tape reveals itself soon!
I said eighty, NOT eighty one
You have answered my call in full, Sir, thank you! The snippets you posted are as manna from heaven, for they tell us far more about John Dunbar and of the thousands of others like him who trained in far flung places in order to carry the fight to the enemy than a list of units, stations, and aircraft. Lots more please, and here's hoping that the missing tape reveals itself soon!
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Totting-up Wiki figures, it apperars that the total of Army deaths in the Civil War (estimated as 750K) exceeds the total in all US wars since (633k - my tot from Wiki figures),
As was the 15th Air Force in Italy. At General Kesselring's debrief after the war he was asked about the effect of Allied bombing.
"When the Germans bomb the Allies duck. When the British bomb the Germans duck. When the Americans bomb everybody ducks."
"When the Germans bomb the Allies duck. When the British bomb the Germans duck. When the Americans bomb everybody ducks."
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A Flying Instructor's Lament.
John Dunbar DFC [RIP] (#9343 - speaking with the voice of Box Brownie),
This stands in the starkest contrast with my experience with the US Army Air Corps ('41-'42).
In plain terms 43% of the RAF intake were rejected ! This caused considerable concern at the time, and has been endlessly discussed ever since. No plausible explanation has ever been forthcoming, and it is ancient history now.
One reason which could have been offered was that the average standard of RAF trainees was markedly lower than that of the American Cadets that the US Flight Schools had been accustomed to. Simply, the RAF was prepared to graduate pilots of a lower standard (and you must admit that John Dunbar's experience adds colour to this).
In which case, the corollary is that the successful graduates of the "Arnold Scheme" (and there have been several (mostly RIP now, but including the writer) on this Thread, should have immediately been noted to be of of a higher calibre. All I can say is: the AFS and OTUs that had to take the training further onto operational level never found (AFAIK) the slightest difference.
And it begs more questions:
What was the loss rate on the six British Flying Training Schools that the US had built for us ? These Schools had, initially, to have 10% of US Cadets in their intake (obviously to compare training methods). How did they get on ?
And over the whole Empire Flying Training Scheme - what was its loss rate on average ?
The statistics for these last two cases seem impossible to trace (or at least, I have never been able to find them - perhaps somebody else can). But there was a general impression that they were far lower than the "Arnold" 43% - a wild guess would be 10-15% overall.
It is impossible to doubt that hundreds (or even thousands) of usable (and badly needed) RAF trainees went to waste in this way. But this should not lead us to resentment at the U.S.A.A.C. (in the person of General "Hap" Arnold) for giving us this wonderful help on the grounds that it turned out to be less wonderful than we expected !
[Note * kibosh - Wiktionary
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kibosh
Chugalug (#9346),
How blazingly true ! I ask all of you pilots this: What is/was the name of the Flying Instructor who comes to your mind ? (No, don't pick up the log book, answer off the top of your head !)... Your first, of course, who sent you off solo on that unforgettable day now so long ago.
I recall these verses (they were very widely known in WWII):
A FLYING INSTRUCTORS LAMENT
__________________________
(I first read this well known poem in "Punch" during the war)
Taken from "BBC 'Peoples' War", submitted by “WINGTIP”.
and incorporating additional verses: sourced as follows:
"A HISTORY OF HADDANHAM"
(Bucks - The site was originally "RAF Thame". [Wiki]).
"A copy of the poem on the right was found in George Cliff's logbook. It obviously struck a chord. The author was P/O O.C. Chave whose son tells his story here"
"What did you do in the War Daddy? - How did you help us to win?
Circuits and bumps, and turns, Laddie - And how to get out of a spin".
"Woe and alack, misery me, I trundle around in the sky,
And instead of machine - gunning Nazis, I'm teaching young hopefuls to fly".
"Thus is my service rewarded, - my years of experience paid,
Never a Hun have I followed right down, nor ever gone out on a raid"
"They don't even let us go crazy, - we have to be safe and sedate,
So it's nix on inverted approaches, they stir up the C.F.I.’s hate".
"For it's 'Oh, such a naughty example, and what will the A.O.C think?'
But we never get posted to fighters - We just get a spell on the Link!"
"So it’s circuits and bumps from mornin ‘till noon, and instrument flying! till tea,
Hold her off, give her bank, put your undercart down, you’re skidding, you're slipping - that's me".
"And as soon as you've finished with one course, like a flash, up another one bobs,
And there's four more to show round the cockpit and four more to try out the knobs".
"But sometimes we read in the papers, of the deeds that old pupils have done,
And we're proud to have seen their beginnings, and shown them the way to the sun".
"So if you find the money and turn out the 'planes we'll give all we know to the men,
'Till they cluster the sky with their triumphs, and burn out the beast from his den".
Step forward, Bob Greer - I shall be ever in your debt, for: You showed me the way to the sun. I hope you lived/are living well. D.
Rather long, sorry Mr Moderator.
Danny42C.
...What put the kybosh on * instructing for me was an instruction that came out that 90% had to pass out regardless. The directive from the Air Ministry in'42/'43 was such that we could not wash out more than 10% regardless of standard. We were all very unhappy at this. The words cannon fodder spring to mind...
...[B] "The Official Website of "The Arnold Scheme (1941-1943) Register™ "
"Unfortunately nearly 50% of British cadets [LACs actually] did not successfully complete pilot training under the scheme, being eliminated ("washed out"), usually without the right of appeal. Between 1941 and 1943, some 7,885 cadets entered the scheme and of the 4493 who survived training, most were returned to the UK as Sergeant Pilots, with many being posted to Bomber Command". However, 577 of the graduates were retained for a period of approximately one year as Instructors...
"Unfortunately nearly 50% of British cadets [LACs actually] did not successfully complete pilot training under the scheme, being eliminated ("washed out"), usually without the right of appeal. Between 1941 and 1943, some 7,885 cadets entered the scheme and of the 4493 who survived training, most were returned to the UK as Sergeant Pilots, with many being posted to Bomber Command". However, 577 of the graduates were retained for a period of approximately one year as Instructors...
One reason which could have been offered was that the average standard of RAF trainees was markedly lower than that of the American Cadets that the US Flight Schools had been accustomed to. Simply, the RAF was prepared to graduate pilots of a lower standard (and you must admit that John Dunbar's experience adds colour to this).
In which case, the corollary is that the successful graduates of the "Arnold Scheme" (and there have been several (mostly RIP now, but including the writer) on this Thread, should have immediately been noted to be of of a higher calibre. All I can say is: the AFS and OTUs that had to take the training further onto operational level never found (AFAIK) the slightest difference.
And it begs more questions:
What was the loss rate on the six British Flying Training Schools that the US had built for us ? These Schools had, initially, to have 10% of US Cadets in their intake (obviously to compare training methods). How did they get on ?
And over the whole Empire Flying Training Scheme - what was its loss rate on average ?
The statistics for these last two cases seem impossible to trace (or at least, I have never been able to find them - perhaps somebody else can). But there was a general impression that they were far lower than the "Arnold" 43% - a wild guess would be 10-15% overall.
It is impossible to doubt that hundreds (or even thousands) of usable (and badly needed) RAF trainees went to waste in this way. But this should not lead us to resentment at the U.S.A.A.C. (in the person of General "Hap" Arnold) for giving us this wonderful help on the grounds that it turned out to be less wonderful than we expected !
[Note * kibosh - Wiktionary
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kibosh
...kaibosh, kybosh, kyebosh, kiebosh ... From the Irish caidhp bháis, meaning death cap (the hood put on someone before they were hanged to death, or the "Black ....]
................
Chugalug (#9346),
...We owe them everything...
I recall these verses (they were very widely known in WWII):
A FLYING INSTRUCTORS LAMENT
__________________________
(I first read this well known poem in "Punch" during the war)
Taken from "BBC 'Peoples' War", submitted by “WINGTIP”.
and incorporating additional verses: sourced as follows:
"A HISTORY OF HADDANHAM"
(Bucks - The site was originally "RAF Thame". [Wiki]).
........................
"What did you do in the War Daddy? - How did you help us to win?
Circuits and bumps, and turns, Laddie - And how to get out of a spin".
"Woe and alack, misery me, I trundle around in the sky,
And instead of machine - gunning Nazis, I'm teaching young hopefuls to fly".
"Thus is my service rewarded, - my years of experience paid,
Never a Hun have I followed right down, nor ever gone out on a raid"
"They don't even let us go crazy, - we have to be safe and sedate,
So it's nix on inverted approaches, they stir up the C.F.I.’s hate".
"For it's 'Oh, such a naughty example, and what will the A.O.C think?'
But we never get posted to fighters - We just get a spell on the Link!"
"So it’s circuits and bumps from mornin ‘till noon, and instrument flying! till tea,
Hold her off, give her bank, put your undercart down, you’re skidding, you're slipping - that's me".
"And as soon as you've finished with one course, like a flash, up another one bobs,
And there's four more to show round the cockpit and four more to try out the knobs".
"But sometimes we read in the papers, of the deeds that old pupils have done,
And we're proud to have seen their beginnings, and shown them the way to the sun".
"So if you find the money and turn out the 'planes we'll give all we know to the men,
'Till they cluster the sky with their triumphs, and burn out the beast from his den".
Step forward, Bob Greer - I shall be ever in your debt, for: You showed me the way to the sun. I hope you lived/are living well. D.
Rather long, sorry Mr Moderator.
Danny42C.
Thanks Danny, and to the ever patient creamie instructor John Metcalfe who sent me solo in a JP, sadly kicked in Hunter accident a dozen years later. I still go very year to the LAA Rally, in part because Les Hilditch was daft enough one August Saturday in 1961 to send me off on my own in a J1/N Auster, to be told afterwards that my parents had turned up unexpectedly and against strict instruction, and my Mother bless her turned to one of my fellow students and said "Is he going solo, what by himself?" Six months later I turned up at the Towers to run into the same former student, on the same Entry. Oh the embarrassment!
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Wander00 - The chap who taught me to drive, Bill Woodley, had been a flight engineer on Lancasters, a Canadian squadron. I was a student working part time with Securicor.
His legacy from the war were the most horrible headaches. Many times on patrol in the early hours of the morning he would say "Bombers moon tonight and I would ask him how he got his DFC. The same reply each time " Getting up early to get eggs for breakfast" It took a year before he finally explained. Coming back they strayed over the island of Texel and were hit. The pilot was injured and the Lancaster went into a dive. Bill was able to pull the pilot back and they both managed to regain control of the aircraft. He died in his late fifties - much too early.
His legacy from the war were the most horrible headaches. Many times on patrol in the early hours of the morning he would say "Bombers moon tonight and I would ask him how he got his DFC. The same reply each time " Getting up early to get eggs for breakfast" It took a year before he finally explained. Coming back they strayed over the island of Texel and were hit. The pilot was injured and the Lancaster went into a dive. Bill was able to pull the pilot back and they both managed to regain control of the aircraft. He died in his late fifties - much too early.
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Flt Lt John Dunbar DFC ( RIP)
Three photos - 1 John
2 - A formation of Cornells up from Assinibola,Saskatchewan.
John is piloting the next aircraft up from the camera
3- The Cornell crash when John was flying with a pupil from 32EFTS Bowden, Alberta
Three photos - 1 John
2 - A formation of Cornells up from Assinibola,Saskatchewan.
John is piloting the next aircraft up from the camera
3- The Cornell crash when John was flying with a pupil from 32EFTS Bowden, Alberta
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Originally Posted by Danny42C
What is/was the name of the Flying Instructor who comes to your mind?
His civvy father (Mr. L Snr) ran the outfit, so I had little prospect of escalating matters. Anyway, I wasn't told the result [= fail] until 2 days before the Passing-Out Parade, some 4 months later, having done a blinding job on nearly all of the Exams.
* The shouty, screaming, bullying one I have mentioned before. Ah, if only I had stayed with my first instructor [3 trips, IIRC], with whom I was extremely comfortable. Perhaps they wanted to see how I would perform under pressure? I didn't.
Originally Posted by Box Brownie
Three photos
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Yes MPN11, thanks to your concise instructions. Not bad considering that at the age of sixty nine I have just got on top of joined up writing!
It would take ages to find the original negatives so the photos were photographed from the Aeroplane article. When we get to 'Five into four won't go' I will scan slides I took and use two more from the magazine article. Taking more from one of the tapes today John's words come back" People wouldn't believe you if you told them"
It would take ages to find the original negatives so the photos were photographed from the Aeroplane article. When we get to 'Five into four won't go' I will scan slides I took and use two more from the magazine article. Taking more from one of the tapes today John's words come back" People wouldn't believe you if you told them"
Last edited by Box Brownie; 23rd Sep 2016 at 19:02. Reason: Letter changed
BB:-
I imagine that caused a sharp drawing in of breaths over various keyboards. The past of course is a far off country, they do things differently there. COs held greater sway then than in these PC days. The Powers of a Subordinate Commander were both specific and very wide ranging. The corollary was that unpopular ones who wielded that power poorly could expect payment in kind. The loss of residence by arson nonetheless would be a bit OTT to say the least. Having avoided being the subject of a BoI, our man now seems banged to rights for a CM. Or is he? We must wait and see...
The nearest, but much paler, instance of COcide that I can recall is the matter of the Stn Cdr RAF Christmas Island's Goldfish. As this large parish (approx. 30 miles N to S ISTR) was on a Care and Maintenance basis, the CO was a Wg Cdr, and he had made the most of being sovereign of all that he surveyed. He commandeered the RNO's MFV and had it fitted out with harnesses, seats, and outriggers for deep sea fishing. In contrast he had an ornamental fishpond constructed in front of his quarters and populated it with said goldfish (a generic term only, no idea of their specific type).
At some point he had pushed buttons too far and at high tide a bunch of politically motivated young men threaded a large piece of meat onto a likewise large hook, which in turn was on the end of a long strong rope. With great skill, acquired from imbibing many JCs (the booze was 1d a tot, the mixer a disgraceful 2d!), the bait was cast. The team retired to further enhance their skill levels, and returned at low tide to find a very furious shark at the other end of the rope thrashing about in the shallows. It was promptly clubbed senseless and carried to the CO's ornamental pond in which it was deposited in order to recuperate. All this was at night and in the very early morning, so that the CO was confronted by the unwelcome guest in his pond as he left his accommodation to go to work. Having woken, the shark was even more furious and had promptly taken it out on the other occupants of the pond. The miscreants were however nowhere to be found, these being pre CCTV days. The clear up, like all such clear ups, occurred after the CoC had drilled downwards to a level where it could drill no further.
I am sorry if this story has upset those of a nervous disposition. It is wrong on so many levels, I know, but it is merely as I was told it. I wasn't there you understand, but thousands of miles away. I even have the log book entries to prove it.
The past is a far off country...
Perhaps burning the Co's wooden bungalow down at 3 am in the morning was a step too far.
The nearest, but much paler, instance of COcide that I can recall is the matter of the Stn Cdr RAF Christmas Island's Goldfish. As this large parish (approx. 30 miles N to S ISTR) was on a Care and Maintenance basis, the CO was a Wg Cdr, and he had made the most of being sovereign of all that he surveyed. He commandeered the RNO's MFV and had it fitted out with harnesses, seats, and outriggers for deep sea fishing. In contrast he had an ornamental fishpond constructed in front of his quarters and populated it with said goldfish (a generic term only, no idea of their specific type).
At some point he had pushed buttons too far and at high tide a bunch of politically motivated young men threaded a large piece of meat onto a likewise large hook, which in turn was on the end of a long strong rope. With great skill, acquired from imbibing many JCs (the booze was 1d a tot, the mixer a disgraceful 2d!), the bait was cast. The team retired to further enhance their skill levels, and returned at low tide to find a very furious shark at the other end of the rope thrashing about in the shallows. It was promptly clubbed senseless and carried to the CO's ornamental pond in which it was deposited in order to recuperate. All this was at night and in the very early morning, so that the CO was confronted by the unwelcome guest in his pond as he left his accommodation to go to work. Having woken, the shark was even more furious and had promptly taken it out on the other occupants of the pond. The miscreants were however nowhere to be found, these being pre CCTV days. The clear up, like all such clear ups, occurred after the CoC had drilled downwards to a level where it could drill no further.
I am sorry if this story has upset those of a nervous disposition. It is wrong on so many levels, I know, but it is merely as I was told it. I wasn't there you understand, but thousands of miles away. I even have the log book entries to prove it.
The past is a far off country...
Last edited by Chugalug2; 24th Sep 2016 at 07:22. Reason: Words, dear boy, words!
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Chug - I have a feeling you have set a ball rolling. John was somewhat embarassed telling me the bit about the hut - on the tape his voice is subdued.
Fareastdriver - thanks for chipping in - appreciated. I do have a scanner. Two photos I took are attached scanned from slides using it. They may bring back memories for one or two people
Fareastdriver - thanks for chipping in - appreciated. I do have a scanner. Two photos I took are attached scanned from slides using it. They may bring back memories for one or two people
Chugalug2,
we had a similar instance during my time on 48 with the good old 'K'.
The OC 48 managed to upset the groundcrew somehow so their revenge was to paint the outside of his house one night. The culprits were never found.
Of course in these 'Banksey' days it would have been hailed as a fine example of modern art but the CO was not amused.
we had a similar instance during my time on 48 with the good old 'K'.
The OC 48 managed to upset the groundcrew somehow so their revenge was to paint the outside of his house one night. The culprits were never found.
Of course in these 'Banksey' days it would have been hailed as a fine example of modern art but the CO was not amused.
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Flt Lt John Dunbar DFC (RIP) Five into four won't go
Taken from two tapes
The Air Commodre bade me sit down and came straight to the point. " I understand you have been pushing to go onto the Mosquito. Not a hope. The Empire Training Scheme is now at a stage where we will soon have a surplus of aircrew. By the time you get to a squadron the war will be over. There is a job you can take on that will mean ops. You will have to select a group of thirty pilots to form a squadron about which I can tell you nothing. They must have the following qualifications- be under 25 years of age, have 750 hour as pilots and be ex - EFTS instructors." I accepted the challenge but it was one hell of a job recruiting the thirty bods. I could tell them nothing. One chap, Dave Proctor, came up to me and said he had heard I was recruiting and why hadn't I asked him? What had I got against him However he was twenty nine. and I said no - he was past it. " " I'm begging you. There's only one place they will want us and that is Burma. My brother was lost on the retreat and if I can get out there may be a chance of finding him" I managed to arrange for him to join us. By the end of May 1944 we were on a short commando course and on July 17th began a n intensive short landing programme at No 6 EFTS. On November 23rd 1944 we left Lyneham on board two Liberators for India. Because of the urgency we were routed across Europe via El Adam, Shaiba and Karachi. from there we received a signal to go to Bombay"
To be continued.
Taken from two tapes
The Air Commodre bade me sit down and came straight to the point. " I understand you have been pushing to go onto the Mosquito. Not a hope. The Empire Training Scheme is now at a stage where we will soon have a surplus of aircrew. By the time you get to a squadron the war will be over. There is a job you can take on that will mean ops. You will have to select a group of thirty pilots to form a squadron about which I can tell you nothing. They must have the following qualifications- be under 25 years of age, have 750 hour as pilots and be ex - EFTS instructors." I accepted the challenge but it was one hell of a job recruiting the thirty bods. I could tell them nothing. One chap, Dave Proctor, came up to me and said he had heard I was recruiting and why hadn't I asked him? What had I got against him However he was twenty nine. and I said no - he was past it. " " I'm begging you. There's only one place they will want us and that is Burma. My brother was lost on the retreat and if I can get out there may be a chance of finding him" I managed to arrange for him to join us. By the end of May 1944 we were on a short commando course and on July 17th began a n intensive short landing programme at No 6 EFTS. On November 23rd 1944 we left Lyneham on board two Liberators for India. Because of the urgency we were routed across Europe via El Adam, Shaiba and Karachi. from there we received a signal to go to Bombay"
To be continued.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Flt Lt John Dunbar DFC (RIP)
Taken from two tapes
At Bombay nobody was expecting us and they knew nothing about us. I spoke to a senior officer and said that I had thirty highly experienced bods getting hot under the collar - they were all volunteers for a particular job and we were told we couldn't waste a minute. Two weeks were lost in the transit camp at Bombay before we were given train tickets Ambala in Northern India, a four day train journey. When we got off the train we saw a sign pointing to Royal Indian Air Force Station Ambali No 1 Indian Air Force Elementary Flying Training School. You would think no one would talk to me! I was sent to Coventry. Not only had I got them back on instructing, but they were to instruct in the Indan Air Force
To be continued
Taken from two tapes
At Bombay nobody was expecting us and they knew nothing about us. I spoke to a senior officer and said that I had thirty highly experienced bods getting hot under the collar - they were all volunteers for a particular job and we were told we couldn't waste a minute. Two weeks were lost in the transit camp at Bombay before we were given train tickets Ambala in Northern India, a four day train journey. When we got off the train we saw a sign pointing to Royal Indian Air Force Station Ambali No 1 Indian Air Force Elementary Flying Training School. You would think no one would talk to me! I was sent to Coventry. Not only had I got them back on instructing, but they were to instruct in the Indan Air Force
To be continued