Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
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What happened next - and where did it happen ?
pulse1, (your #6238)
AFAIK, the RAF trainees from both Canada and the US all returned to the UK after getting their wings overseas. The decision about their operational future was made at home; after a month's "UK familiarisation" Course they would be sent on to the appropriate Operational Training Unit, and from there to their operational Squadrons. I am certain about the US, but there are ex-RCAF among us who could confirm Canada.
In both places, there would be a small proportion (in the "Arnold" Schools 7% of intake) of the newly winged, "creamed off", trained out there as Instructors, and employed as such (for how long I know not) before return to the UK. In the US case they were intended for the BFTS - you can hardly expect them to be let loose on American Cadets ! (but one surfaced on my "Advanced" Arnold Course at Craig Field, Selma).
In the immediate aftermath of the Bomb, my tiny unit was being used as a parking place for latecomers who'd arrived in India after it was All Over. Among them was one chap who'd spent his entire war in Canada, logging 2,000 hours instructing on Tiger Moths (talk about a "One-trick Pony" !)
Danny.
AFAIK, the RAF trainees from both Canada and the US all returned to the UK after getting their wings overseas. The decision about their operational future was made at home; after a month's "UK familiarisation" Course they would be sent on to the appropriate Operational Training Unit, and from there to their operational Squadrons. I am certain about the US, but there are ex-RCAF among us who could confirm Canada.
In both places, there would be a small proportion (in the "Arnold" Schools 7% of intake) of the newly winged, "creamed off", trained out there as Instructors, and employed as such (for how long I know not) before return to the UK. In the US case they were intended for the BFTS - you can hardly expect them to be let loose on American Cadets ! (but one surfaced on my "Advanced" Arnold Course at Craig Field, Selma).
In the immediate aftermath of the Bomb, my tiny unit was being used as a parking place for latecomers who'd arrived in India after it was All Over. Among them was one chap who'd spent his entire war in Canada, logging 2,000 hours instructing on Tiger Moths (talk about a "One-trick Pony" !)
Danny.
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Re: harrym memoirs
Danny - re your #6235, apologies for recent silence. For some time I have been attempting to set my June '45-Oct '46 SE Asian period into a reasonably compact and readable form – possibly less a straight narrative, but rather into separate sections describing various aspects of operating in that theatre at that particular period. As you can guess, it was a rather different experience as compared to the steady training machine plod; for whereas the war was still 'on' at the start, by mid '46 our squadron based at Hong Kong was, given the rarity of any meaningful civil aviation as such, virtually filling in for non-existent local airlines; so, with a route structure stretching to Japan in one direction and Singapore or Calcutta the other, it was quite a task for our war-weary Daks - not to mention the presence of an insidious air of 'demob-happiness' in some quarters.
I hope to start 'publication' by the end of the year, but don't hold your breath; meanwhile, I find your own writings totally absorbing!
Cheers - harrym
I hope to start 'publication' by the end of the year, but don't hold your breath; meanwhile, I find your own writings totally absorbing!
Cheers - harrym
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Absent Friends.
harrym,
Thanks for the kind words ! Good to hear from you (we are both 92 and I was starting to worry about you !) Let's have your next instalments when you like and in any way you like.
It will fit in nicely, for I'm slowing down (on the Thread, that is !)
Cheers, Danny.
Thanks for the kind words ! Good to hear from you (we are both 92 and I was starting to worry about you !) Let's have your next instalments when you like and in any way you like.
It will fit in nicely, for I'm slowing down (on the Thread, that is !)
Cheers, Danny.
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Danny meets an Old Friend for the Last Time (Part I).
It must have been in the summer of '71 or '72, for Sqn Ldr Ray Hanna had retired from the RAF in '71, and set up (with his son, I believe) as a sort of impresario for flying display acts. On this occasion Hanna had booked himself for an annual air show at Teeside that afternoon. He had positioned at Leeming late morning (I think we'd had the grace not to charge him a Landing Fee !); the idea was that he would take off after lunch with just enough time to comfortably meet his ETA at TD, perform and then return direct to base (wherever that was).
He was flying a Spitfire IX (Wiki tells me that it was MH434, owned by Sir Adrian Squire [Chairman of Cathay Pacific], for which Company Hanna flew). I do not know how many hours there were on this airframe, but to say that it was in showroom condition was an understatement. I had never seen a Spitfire "bulled-up" as was this one - it positively gleamed, there wasn't a scratch, or a dent, or a spot of oil or mud anywhere on it. Parked on the apron in front of the Tower, it had been admired by just about everyone on the Station who could get to see it.
OC (F) had wisely ordered that all (the Student Body above all) should keep their sticky fingers off this aircraft and in particular out of the cockpit. "Look - but don't touch" was the order of the day. But by the time I came out of the Tower for lunch, the crowd had dispersed and the Spit stood unmolested on the line. I went over to have a look for old time's sake.
I was standing about 20 feet away, arms folded, in a reverie, just letting old memories of my days on them flow over me, when the man himself came over from Flying Wing HQ, and eyed me keenly: "You used to fly them, didn't you ?"......"Yes, sir - 20 Squadron at Valley, 1951" ....."Like to hop in for a minute or two ? I want to see SATCO for a few minutes, but there's no hurry".
Give a donkey strawberries ! I was on the wing in a flash, pushed back the hood, and opened the side flap (why do all the display Spits have their "jemmys" painted red ? - we never did). He'd left his 'chute in the seat, I carefully folded the back over and on top of the seat cushion (for there were doggies about, and you never know), and gingerly climbed in.
The years melted away - thirty since I first timidly shoe-horned myself in, twenty since my last flight. It was if I'd never been away. I hooked my shoes into the top rungs of the "double-decker" rudder "stirrups" (an early idea to delay the onset of the effects of "G"), glanced down on the turnbuckle adjusters with their foot-operated star-wheels, which gave you for-and-aft rudder bar setting, and took the spade-grip (so much more comfortable to hold than any stick, whatever gubbins you may have on top). In the centre of the spade-grip the wheel brake lever fell under your fingertips as naturally as on a bike handlebar.
And above all, the articulated stick. It's so much nicer (and a must in a narrow cockpit !), and all you need is a sprocket and a bit of bike chain in the control column to connect with the elevator and aileron cable rods at the bottom. The compressed air lines that worked the wheel brakes and gun firing are flexible anyway. Throttle still had the "twist grip" for ranging the Gyro Computing Gunsight (are they still around ?), but I think the sight itself (and guns, of course) had been taken out. The little brass "Ki-gas" (hand-pump fuel injector into the manifold for a cold start) was still down on the right. The smooth white "bog-pull" handle still adorned the u/c lever. I noted with approval that there was plenty of compressed air in the tank.
Everything else was exactly as I remembered it (except possibly the R/T set). It even smelt just as before ! Ray Hanna and I must have been much the same size, for his rudder reach and seat height settings suited me perfectly - I was in the hunched attitude of a racing jockey - which is exactly as we were trained for air combat. In day-to-day A-B flying (eg transporting 3-tonner brake drums !) you'd relax with your feet in the lower stirrups.
Of course the IX and the XVI are identical twins; if you don't know the A/F number prefixes, the only way you can tell them apart is to take off an engine panel. If the long alloy camcovers bear a proud ROLLS ROYCE, you have a IX. If they're blank, it's a XVI (Merlin Mk.266), (and you might expect "GMC" or "PACKARD", but the Americans had deliberately left their names off - a graceful gesture of self-abnegation which was always quietly appreciated).
All in all the Spitfire cockpit was a masterpiece of ergonomics. Clearly, pilots had had a large hand in the design. Everything came naturally to hand. With all other aircraft I flew, it was a question of sitting "on" or sitting "in" them: is no accident that so many old spitfire men liken it to "putting on a glove" - for that was exactly what it felt like - putting on an old and comfortable glove. And when you had also a tolerant and vice-free aircraft which flew beautifully, who would ever want anything else ?
I climbed out, carefully rearranged the 'chute seat back, closed the flap and the hood, and jumped down (I was never to touch a Spit again from that day to this). "I'll come in to SATCO with you, if I may, sir", I added to my thanks. "I'll be the ATC Supervisor this afternoon - I presume it's about your display ?"...... "Then you're just the man I need to see", he said, "come along". Lunch would be rather late - if at all.
The rest will have to wait for a day or two. Goodnight, all.
Danny42C.
Memories, memories !
He was flying a Spitfire IX (Wiki tells me that it was MH434, owned by Sir Adrian Squire [Chairman of Cathay Pacific], for which Company Hanna flew). I do not know how many hours there were on this airframe, but to say that it was in showroom condition was an understatement. I had never seen a Spitfire "bulled-up" as was this one - it positively gleamed, there wasn't a scratch, or a dent, or a spot of oil or mud anywhere on it. Parked on the apron in front of the Tower, it had been admired by just about everyone on the Station who could get to see it.
OC (F) had wisely ordered that all (the Student Body above all) should keep their sticky fingers off this aircraft and in particular out of the cockpit. "Look - but don't touch" was the order of the day. But by the time I came out of the Tower for lunch, the crowd had dispersed and the Spit stood unmolested on the line. I went over to have a look for old time's sake.
I was standing about 20 feet away, arms folded, in a reverie, just letting old memories of my days on them flow over me, when the man himself came over from Flying Wing HQ, and eyed me keenly: "You used to fly them, didn't you ?"......"Yes, sir - 20 Squadron at Valley, 1951" ....."Like to hop in for a minute or two ? I want to see SATCO for a few minutes, but there's no hurry".
Give a donkey strawberries ! I was on the wing in a flash, pushed back the hood, and opened the side flap (why do all the display Spits have their "jemmys" painted red ? - we never did). He'd left his 'chute in the seat, I carefully folded the back over and on top of the seat cushion (for there were doggies about, and you never know), and gingerly climbed in.
The years melted away - thirty since I first timidly shoe-horned myself in, twenty since my last flight. It was if I'd never been away. I hooked my shoes into the top rungs of the "double-decker" rudder "stirrups" (an early idea to delay the onset of the effects of "G"), glanced down on the turnbuckle adjusters with their foot-operated star-wheels, which gave you for-and-aft rudder bar setting, and took the spade-grip (so much more comfortable to hold than any stick, whatever gubbins you may have on top). In the centre of the spade-grip the wheel brake lever fell under your fingertips as naturally as on a bike handlebar.
And above all, the articulated stick. It's so much nicer (and a must in a narrow cockpit !), and all you need is a sprocket and a bit of bike chain in the control column to connect with the elevator and aileron cable rods at the bottom. The compressed air lines that worked the wheel brakes and gun firing are flexible anyway. Throttle still had the "twist grip" for ranging the Gyro Computing Gunsight (are they still around ?), but I think the sight itself (and guns, of course) had been taken out. The little brass "Ki-gas" (hand-pump fuel injector into the manifold for a cold start) was still down on the right. The smooth white "bog-pull" handle still adorned the u/c lever. I noted with approval that there was plenty of compressed air in the tank.
Everything else was exactly as I remembered it (except possibly the R/T set). It even smelt just as before ! Ray Hanna and I must have been much the same size, for his rudder reach and seat height settings suited me perfectly - I was in the hunched attitude of a racing jockey - which is exactly as we were trained for air combat. In day-to-day A-B flying (eg transporting 3-tonner brake drums !) you'd relax with your feet in the lower stirrups.
Of course the IX and the XVI are identical twins; if you don't know the A/F number prefixes, the only way you can tell them apart is to take off an engine panel. If the long alloy camcovers bear a proud ROLLS ROYCE, you have a IX. If they're blank, it's a XVI (Merlin Mk.266), (and you might expect "GMC" or "PACKARD", but the Americans had deliberately left their names off - a graceful gesture of self-abnegation which was always quietly appreciated).
All in all the Spitfire cockpit was a masterpiece of ergonomics. Clearly, pilots had had a large hand in the design. Everything came naturally to hand. With all other aircraft I flew, it was a question of sitting "on" or sitting "in" them: is no accident that so many old spitfire men liken it to "putting on a glove" - for that was exactly what it felt like - putting on an old and comfortable glove. And when you had also a tolerant and vice-free aircraft which flew beautifully, who would ever want anything else ?
I climbed out, carefully rearranged the 'chute seat back, closed the flap and the hood, and jumped down (I was never to touch a Spit again from that day to this). "I'll come in to SATCO with you, if I may, sir", I added to my thanks. "I'll be the ATC Supervisor this afternoon - I presume it's about your display ?"...... "Then you're just the man I need to see", he said, "come along". Lunch would be rather late - if at all.
The rest will have to wait for a day or two. Goodnight, all.
Danny42C.
Memories, memories !
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And that, gentlemen, is perhaps the best post I have ever read on this thread and the whole of PPrune. It is so wonderfully crafted that I too was there in that cockpit, smelling the same smell.
Many years ago when still a very young child, I was taken to Brighton. There on the sea front, pointing out to sea, was a Spitfire on display for Wings Day. For 6d children were allowed to sit in it and be shown around the cockpit by a member of the RAF. I understood little of what the chap said as I was mesmerised, just sitting there looking forward past the gunsight to a sparkling blue sky with the occasional Cu floating around - I was in another world.
Your reminiscence took me straight back to that moment - I can't thank you enough Sir.
Your reminiscence took me straight back to that moment - I can't thank you enough Sir.
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And that, gentlemen, is perhaps the best post I have ever read on this thread and the whole of PPrune. It is so wonderfully crafted that I too was there in that cockpit, smelling the same smell.
Lovely writing, Danny. Not that we've come to expect anything else from you.
Bomber Crew Training in Canada
Danny42C,
Many thanks for your answer to my rather vague question. Prompted by this I have got off my BS and started to do my own research.
I never realised that aircrew training in Canada was not restricted to pilots but included navigators, air gunners and wireless operators. Under Article XV, bomber squadrons were formed from RAF and RCAF crews trained under the Commonwealth Agreement so I can only imagine that my old friend was part of this scheme. Some of the Article XV Squadrons remained in Canada right up to the end of hostilities.
Many thanks for your answer to my rather vague question. Prompted by this I have got off my BS and started to do my own research.
I never realised that aircrew training in Canada was not restricted to pilots but included navigators, air gunners and wireless operators. Under Article XV, bomber squadrons were formed from RAF and RCAF crews trained under the Commonwealth Agreement so I can only imagine that my old friend was part of this scheme. Some of the Article XV Squadrons remained in Canada right up to the end of hostilities.
I had an event with Ray Hanna in May 1978. I was tasked, actually I was running the flying programme and so I put myself on, to do a photographic sortie of JU 52 arriving at Biggin Hill. There is no point in having power if you don't abuse it.
The JU52 was a CASA 252 which, with a collection of Merlin powered He111s and 109s, had been bought off the Spanish Air Force. The plot was to have a film of the Tante Ju and a Spitfire in formation. I went to Biggin, met Ray, had a look over his Spitfire and we waited for news of the Junkers which was en-route from Spain.
Nobody knew where it was. It had been reported over Ashford so we decided that I, having stacks of fuel would launch and look for it. So my Puma HC1 helicopter became the last RAF aircraft to attempt to intercept a WW II Luftwaffe aircraft.
I picked it up after about fifteen minutes, head on with that peculiar undercarriage dangling underneath. The Spitfire was scrambled and I slotted echelon port to the 52. The camera crew the started to get to work and then Ray and his Spitfire formatted the other side. Not without difficulty because the Junkers was only doing about 110 knots and I don't know how a Spitfire handles in formation, flapless, at that speed.
The JU 52 was shaking like a corrugated iron roof in a gale. His port No1 engine was apparently getting bit hot so No2 in the middle was working overtime to keep the show going. However we got our pictures and then we left the Junkers behind and there was a session with just the Spifire tucked in. He found it a lot easier at 145 knots.
It was my last operational day flying in the RAF. A few days later I flew a Puma to my children's school in Kempshott and after that it was the North Sea.
I think that the Junkers (CASA) ended up in the SAA museum at Zwartcop.
The JU52 was a CASA 252 which, with a collection of Merlin powered He111s and 109s, had been bought off the Spanish Air Force. The plot was to have a film of the Tante Ju and a Spitfire in formation. I went to Biggin, met Ray, had a look over his Spitfire and we waited for news of the Junkers which was en-route from Spain.
Nobody knew where it was. It had been reported over Ashford so we decided that I, having stacks of fuel would launch and look for it. So my Puma HC1 helicopter became the last RAF aircraft to attempt to intercept a WW II Luftwaffe aircraft.
I picked it up after about fifteen minutes, head on with that peculiar undercarriage dangling underneath. The Spitfire was scrambled and I slotted echelon port to the 52. The camera crew the started to get to work and then Ray and his Spitfire formatted the other side. Not without difficulty because the Junkers was only doing about 110 knots and I don't know how a Spitfire handles in formation, flapless, at that speed.
The JU 52 was shaking like a corrugated iron roof in a gale. His port No1 engine was apparently getting bit hot so No2 in the middle was working overtime to keep the show going. However we got our pictures and then we left the Junkers behind and there was a session with just the Spifire tucked in. He found it a lot easier at 145 knots.
It was my last operational day flying in the RAF. A few days later I flew a Puma to my children's school in Kempshott and after that it was the North Sea.
I think that the Junkers (CASA) ended up in the SAA museum at Zwartcop.
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A delightful tale, Fareastdriver, as are so many on this thread.
I have been quiet, and just reading, as an iPad in the USA is not the ideal vehicle for comms.
But now that I am home, I do need to say that the "Elder Brethren" have kept me fascinated for ages. I thank you all (no names) for the enlightenment and nostalgia. As a 'wingless wonder' there is little for me to say ... except occasionally
I have been quiet, and just reading, as an iPad in the USA is not the ideal vehicle for comms.
But now that I am home, I do need to say that the "Elder Brethren" have kept me fascinated for ages. I thank you all (no names) for the enlightenment and nostalgia. As a 'wingless wonder' there is little for me to say ... except occasionally
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Come one, come all !
Thank you, airborne artist, (your #6246) I'm delighted that what I look upon as my hobby seems to give pleasure to so many people. It's just that I've been given "the gift of the gab" (must be in my ancestry !)...D.
FantomZorbin,
I'm delighted that I've been able to awaken a precious memory of your childhood....D.
Here we are:
kookabat,
You do me far too much honour Sir (but thank you all the same !)....D.
mmitch,
So the old-timer is flying still (the Spit, I mean). Sadly Ray Hanna is dead, and his son Mark is dead, too (so Wiki tells me). Seems they founded the Old Flying Machine Company together. RIP both...D.
pulse1,
The Navigator etc trainees would include a fair component of the "washouts" from the Arnolds and BFTS. The British Commonwealth (that pale ghost of the Empire) played no part then - it came later. (It was formally constituted by the London Declaration only in 1949 - Wiki).....D.
Chugalug,
Thank you, Sir ! (you are much too kind) And thank you, and others, for the help and support you have given me since the very early days of my tale (2½ years ago - how time flies !) ....D.
Fareastdriver,
Your:
"...Not without difficulty because the Junkers was only doing about 110 knots and I don't know how a Spitfire handles in formation, flapless, at that speed.."
and
"....left the Junkers behind and there was a session with just the Spifire tucked in. He found it a lot easier at 145 knots....."
By itself, 110 knots would be all right (only S&L) but wouldn't care to try Formation. Trouble was, there was no take-off Flap, it was all or nothing. (But there were occasions, when they were flying Spits off a carrier fot delivery to (say) Malta, when they got round that by putting flaps down, a wooden "spacer" block under the wing, then flaps up to hold it trapped between. That gave them about 30º for take-off, then when well airborne, they put flaps down, dropped the block, and lifted flap.
On the Spit Mk.1, 145 knots (with the Merlin II or III down to 1800 rpm, and well leaned-out) needed very little boost. It was reckoned that it would do 16 ampg, so your internal 85 gallons gave you 5 hours. That worked out at 20 mpg, not bad for a big car on the road ! (And you were doing 170 mph as well !.....D.
MPN11,
Crept up on me while my back was turned, didn't you ! Now as to your: ".... As a 'wingless wonder' there is little for me to say...."
Not so, Sir. You, too, can say: "Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth" as well as any of us here....D
Cheers to you all, Gentlemen. Danny.
FantomZorbin,
I'm delighted that I've been able to awaken a precious memory of your childhood....D.
Here we are:
kookabat,
You do me far too much honour Sir (but thank you all the same !)....D.
mmitch,
So the old-timer is flying still (the Spit, I mean). Sadly Ray Hanna is dead, and his son Mark is dead, too (so Wiki tells me). Seems they founded the Old Flying Machine Company together. RIP both...D.
pulse1,
The Navigator etc trainees would include a fair component of the "washouts" from the Arnolds and BFTS. The British Commonwealth (that pale ghost of the Empire) played no part then - it came later. (It was formally constituted by the London Declaration only in 1949 - Wiki).....D.
Chugalug,
Thank you, Sir ! (you are much too kind) And thank you, and others, for the help and support you have given me since the very early days of my tale (2½ years ago - how time flies !) ....D.
Fareastdriver,
Your:
"...Not without difficulty because the Junkers was only doing about 110 knots and I don't know how a Spitfire handles in formation, flapless, at that speed.."
and
"....left the Junkers behind and there was a session with just the Spifire tucked in. He found it a lot easier at 145 knots....."
By itself, 110 knots would be all right (only S&L) but wouldn't care to try Formation. Trouble was, there was no take-off Flap, it was all or nothing. (But there were occasions, when they were flying Spits off a carrier fot delivery to (say) Malta, when they got round that by putting flaps down, a wooden "spacer" block under the wing, then flaps up to hold it trapped between. That gave them about 30º for take-off, then when well airborne, they put flaps down, dropped the block, and lifted flap.
On the Spit Mk.1, 145 knots (with the Merlin II or III down to 1800 rpm, and well leaned-out) needed very little boost. It was reckoned that it would do 16 ampg, so your internal 85 gallons gave you 5 hours. That worked out at 20 mpg, not bad for a big car on the road ! (And you were doing 170 mph as well !.....D.
MPN11,
Crept up on me while my back was turned, didn't you ! Now as to your: ".... As a 'wingless wonder' there is little for me to say...."
Not so, Sir. You, too, can say: "Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth" as well as any of us here....D
Cheers to you all, Gentlemen. Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 30th Sep 2014 at 00:44. Reason: Add Text
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Keeping the pot boiling!
Danny, I have so enjoyed reading your posts, marvelously graphic.
My input into this thread is to join the odd dot or two, for me anyway. My father was in the 14th army during WW II, with the East African REME and commanded those folks through the trials and tribulations of keeping jeeps/transport/heavy guns and such working in pretty bad conditions. He ended up as a Lt Col of the regiment but has long departed this world.
His younger brother joined the RAF and became a pilot flying Blenheim aircraft, was shot down over Crete In 1940 and spent the rest of the war in various POW camps including Stalagluft III. He came home, to Kenya where our family home was in 1946, flew for East African Airways for many years. He too has departed this world.
I joined the Royal Navy as a 15 year old Boy Seaman, remustered into the Fleet Air Arm and had an eventful 13 years of service with the RN, then departed to become an engineer, licensed, for various airlines based all over the world. Over time I left the airline engineering world and joined the regulatory authority in Australia followed by the UK (CAA) and went through the training regime to gain a PPL, to enable me to have a clearer understand the skills required in the GA fraternity from an operational as well as an engineering point of view.
During my time within two regulatory authorities I had the good fortune to assess and issue Permits to Fly to a variety of aircraft from WWII era, including Spitfires and Lysander's.
I have now retired but do miss, from time to time, the world of aircraft that I was part of for 50 years,
Please keep on with your story Danny, such a good read.
Nkosi
My input into this thread is to join the odd dot or two, for me anyway. My father was in the 14th army during WW II, with the East African REME and commanded those folks through the trials and tribulations of keeping jeeps/transport/heavy guns and such working in pretty bad conditions. He ended up as a Lt Col of the regiment but has long departed this world.
His younger brother joined the RAF and became a pilot flying Blenheim aircraft, was shot down over Crete In 1940 and spent the rest of the war in various POW camps including Stalagluft III. He came home, to Kenya where our family home was in 1946, flew for East African Airways for many years. He too has departed this world.
I joined the Royal Navy as a 15 year old Boy Seaman, remustered into the Fleet Air Arm and had an eventful 13 years of service with the RN, then departed to become an engineer, licensed, for various airlines based all over the world. Over time I left the airline engineering world and joined the regulatory authority in Australia followed by the UK (CAA) and went through the training regime to gain a PPL, to enable me to have a clearer understand the skills required in the GA fraternity from an operational as well as an engineering point of view.
During my time within two regulatory authorities I had the good fortune to assess and issue Permits to Fly to a variety of aircraft from WWII era, including Spitfires and Lysander's.
I have now retired but do miss, from time to time, the world of aircraft that I was part of for 50 years,
Please keep on with your story Danny, such a good read.
Nkosi
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Fifty-five years ago in the film library at 229 OCU there was a WW2 propaganda film shown on "clampers" days called "Journey Together" in which a very young Richard Attenborough played the part of a recruit, disappointed at not being trained as a pilot nevertheless came good and ended up as a navigator. (Or some such!) Anyone remember it?
Another one frequently shown was "The Fighting Lady", with lots of real action filmed in colour, about a carrier operating in the Pacific - probably in the Battle of Midway.
Another one frequently shown was "The Fighting Lady", with lots of real action filmed in colour, about a carrier operating in the Pacific - probably in the Battle of Midway.
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No I'd never heard of it. But thirty seconds with Google determines that Journey Together is a 1944 film made by the RAF, written by - and acted by - members of the RAF. Apparently our Hero joins the Empire Training Scheme in Canada (before ending up as a Navigator).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17LrPM4Ao44
Doubtless plenty of authentic, real-life Empire Training shots. And whilst no longer available from the IWM available from .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17LrPM4Ao44
Doubtless plenty of authentic, real-life Empire Training shots. And whilst no longer available from the IWM available from .
What happened to an Arnold Washout
I have hesitated about introducing my father’s experiences into this thread as he was an “Arnold Washout” and ended up qualifying as a Navigator/Observer/Bomb Aimer etc having been returned to Canada. I only recently thought to ask for his Service Record although I have had his Navigator’s and Air Gunner’s Flying Log Book for a long time. Unfortunately, he was killed in a hit and run accident, during the Firemen’s Strike, of 1977 (but that is another story) and, like so many others, I never thought to get his story first hand when I was able.
At the start of the war he was a Geography teacher in New Mills in the Peak District but he joined the Service on 5 October 1940 as 1072966 AC2 COOK Edward (LAC 16/3/41 and Sgt 30/3/42). The first few entries in his RoS are:
Unit Fro: (blank) unit to: No 3 RC Padgate date:5/10/40
Unit From: No 3 RC Padgate unit to: Reserve date: 6/10/40
Unit From: Reserve unit to: No 9 RW Stratford on Avon date: 21/12/40
All these are typed but it then lapses into handwritten entries:
6 ITW - 4/1/41(a course photograph showing this was at Aberystwyth)
Arnold 1 - 20/5/40(presumably this should be 20/5/41)
PTC - 30/5/41(although again the year is not really legible)
Spartan SofA - (no date but then there are 3 entries lower with an inserting arrow)
Albany - 8/6/41
Maxwell Fld - 6/8/41
3 BFTS Miami - 28/8/41
PTC - 1/10/41
31PDC Trenton - 7/10/41 and 25/10/41 (2 dates in the same square)
33 ANS - 23/11/41 (Hamilton)
31 B&GS - 16/3/42(Picton)
Discharged - 26/4/42 (Appointed Emerg Comm Plt/Off GD Bch RAFVR 27/4/42)
The entry above saying “Arnold 1”is my interpretation – perhaps, Danny 42C, you could confirm what that might mean. Also Danny, if you are able, what course number would that have been from the dates I have shown?
The discussions there have been here about wash out rates have set me thinking about why he should not have made it. In 1941 he would have been 28 years old which seems a little old, even during a wartime emergency, for pilot training. Could age have been a factor which would have weighed heavily with the USAAC not yet at war?
I also have several small photographs of his time in Albany both on and off base. Although he was obviously not there very long he made an enduring friendship with a family by name of Carter. I know very little about them but they did come to the UK on the, at that time, Grand American Tour of Europe as Mr Carter retired in either 1958 or 9 and came to stay with my father’s parents in Sussex. This seemed to reflect the frequently reported tales of American hospitality across the training schemes.
From his logbook I can construct a very much more detailed view of what followed once he started at 33 ANS but it is still only the bare bones. I will try to put it into a readable form over the next few weeks to provide some background on those who washed out from the Arnold Scheme.
At the start of the war he was a Geography teacher in New Mills in the Peak District but he joined the Service on 5 October 1940 as 1072966 AC2 COOK Edward (LAC 16/3/41 and Sgt 30/3/42). The first few entries in his RoS are:
Unit Fro: (blank) unit to: No 3 RC Padgate date:5/10/40
Unit From: No 3 RC Padgate unit to: Reserve date: 6/10/40
Unit From: Reserve unit to: No 9 RW Stratford on Avon date: 21/12/40
All these are typed but it then lapses into handwritten entries:
6 ITW - 4/1/41(a course photograph showing this was at Aberystwyth)
Arnold 1 - 20/5/40(presumably this should be 20/5/41)
PTC - 30/5/41(although again the year is not really legible)
Spartan SofA - (no date but then there are 3 entries lower with an inserting arrow)
Albany - 8/6/41
Maxwell Fld - 6/8/41
3 BFTS Miami - 28/8/41
PTC - 1/10/41
31PDC Trenton - 7/10/41 and 25/10/41 (2 dates in the same square)
33 ANS - 23/11/41 (Hamilton)
31 B&GS - 16/3/42(Picton)
Discharged - 26/4/42 (Appointed Emerg Comm Plt/Off GD Bch RAFVR 27/4/42)
The entry above saying “Arnold 1”is my interpretation – perhaps, Danny 42C, you could confirm what that might mean. Also Danny, if you are able, what course number would that have been from the dates I have shown?
The discussions there have been here about wash out rates have set me thinking about why he should not have made it. In 1941 he would have been 28 years old which seems a little old, even during a wartime emergency, for pilot training. Could age have been a factor which would have weighed heavily with the USAAC not yet at war?
I also have several small photographs of his time in Albany both on and off base. Although he was obviously not there very long he made an enduring friendship with a family by name of Carter. I know very little about them but they did come to the UK on the, at that time, Grand American Tour of Europe as Mr Carter retired in either 1958 or 9 and came to stay with my father’s parents in Sussex. This seemed to reflect the frequently reported tales of American hospitality across the training schemes.
From his logbook I can construct a very much more detailed view of what followed once he started at 33 ANS but it is still only the bare bones. I will try to put it into a readable form over the next few weeks to provide some background on those who washed out from the Arnold Scheme.
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Posts: n/a
What Happened to an Arnold Washout.
Xercules,
This is what I make of it. Most of it is straightforward enough. (My comment in Capitals).
Unit From: (blank) unit to: No 3 RC Padgate date:5/10/40
THIS WOULD BE FOR INITIAL SELECTION BOARD, ACCEPTED, & ENLISTED AS AC2 (U/T PILOT/AIR OBSERVER).
Unit From: No 3 RC Padgate unit to: Reserve date: 6/10/40
SENT HOME NEXT DAY ON DEFERRED SERVICE.
Unit From: Reserve unit to: No 9 RW Stratford on Avon date: 21/12/40
CALLED IN FROM DEFERRED SERVICE, TWO WEEKS FROM 21/12/40 TO 4/1/41. WOULD BE AT RECEPTION CENTRE ("WING") STRATFORD.
6 ITW - 4/1/41 (a course photograph showing this was at Aberystwyth)
NORMAL PROGRESSION (SIX WEEKS WOULD END ca 15/2/41; WAS PROMOTED AS NORMAL TO LAC 16/3/41 (WHY A MONTH LATER ? - PERHAPS HIS ITW DID'T START ON TIME SO FINISHED LATE).
Arnold 1 - 20/5/40 (presumably this should be 20/5/41)
YES. PROBABLY HAD EMBARKATION LEAVE AFTER ITW, BUT WE HAVE 3 MONTHS TO ACCOUNT FOR. REST MIGHT BE AT SOME TRANSIT CAMP. "ARNOLD 1" MIGHT SIMPLY BE NO MORE THAN A NOTIFICATION THAT HE'D BEEN SELECTED FOR AN ARNOLD CONTINGENT.
PTC - 30/5/41 (although again the year is not really legible)
YEAR IS 41. "PERSONNEL TRANSIT CAMP ?" (SOUNDS LIKE BLACKPOOL, WHERE HE'D GET ISSUED WITH A CHEAP CIVVIE SUIT, WHITE SHIRT, TIE & BERET.
Spartan SofA - (no date but then there are 3 entries lower with an inserting arrow)
GUESS: "SPARTAN SONOFABITCH" (CONDITIONS AT BLACKPOOL? - IT DEPENDED ON WHICH BOARDING HOUSE YOU WERE BILLETED ON (SURE AS HELL IT WASN'T THE "IMPERIAL HOTEL !")
Albany (Georgia) - 8/6/41 (ARNOLD)
WOULD BE HIS PRIMARY SCHOOL. AS HE WOULD NORMALLY GRADUATE SIX MONTHS LATER (A FEW DAYS INTO THE NEW YEAR), HE'D BE COURSE 42A. SO IT'D FOLLOW THE LAST AMERICAN COURSE (41K ?) DID HE EVER MENTION THE "HAZING" ? (AT CARLSTROM THEY HAD A RIOT AND PUT A STOP TO IT).
Maxwell Fld (Montgomery, Alabama) - 6/8/41 (ARNOLD)
HIS BASIC SCHOOL. IT WOULD SEEM THAT HE WAS "WASHED OUT" FROM THERE 3 WEEKS INTO HIS 8 WEEK COURSE (WHY ?). WASHOUTS FROM "BASIC" (7%) AND "ADVANCED" (2%) WERE RARE.
3 BFTS Miami (OKLAHOMA - NOT FLA - DREAM ON !) - 28/8/41 BFTS
NOW THIS IS A COMPLETE MYSTERY ! I'VE NEVER HEARD OF SUCH A THING. MIGHT IT BE THAT THEY'D DECIDED TO GIVE HIM A SECOND CHANCE IN A BFTS ? (ALL OUR WASHOUTS WENT STRAIGHT BACK TO CANADA). SEEMS HE SPENT 3 WEEKS THERE ???
PTC - 1/10/41 31PDC Trenton (Ontario) - 7/10/41 and 25/10/41 (2 dates in the same square)
CLEARLY ANOTHER TRANSIT CAMP (IN AND OUT DATES).
33 ANS - 23/11/41 Hamilton (Ontario)
16 WEEKS NAV SCHOOL, 30/3/42 PROMOTED SGT, SO MUST HAVE GOT NAV WING SAME DATE, FOLLOWED BY:-
31 B&GS - 16/3/42 Picton (Ontario)
ONE MONTH BOMBING AND GUNNERY SCHOOL
Discharged (TECHICALITY) - 26/4/42 (Appointed Emerg (WAR SUBSTANTIVE) Comm Plt/Off GD Bch RAFVR 27/4/42)
COMMISSIONED (AND BACK TO UK ?) THE FACT OF HIS BEING ACCEPTED FOR PILOT TRAINING AT 27 YRS OLD WAS UNUSUAL, BUT NOT UNKNOWN (OFFICIAL LIMITS 17½ - 23). BUT ALMOST CERTAINLY PLAYED A PART IN HIS SELECTION FOR COMMISSIONING - THAT, AND THE FACT THAT HE'D HAD A RESPONSIBLE JOB AS A TEACHER.
Best I can do. Let's have the rest of his story whenever you can, Xercules.
Cheers, Danny.
This is what I make of it. Most of it is straightforward enough. (My comment in Capitals).
Unit From: (blank) unit to: No 3 RC Padgate date:5/10/40
THIS WOULD BE FOR INITIAL SELECTION BOARD, ACCEPTED, & ENLISTED AS AC2 (U/T PILOT/AIR OBSERVER).
Unit From: No 3 RC Padgate unit to: Reserve date: 6/10/40
SENT HOME NEXT DAY ON DEFERRED SERVICE.
Unit From: Reserve unit to: No 9 RW Stratford on Avon date: 21/12/40
CALLED IN FROM DEFERRED SERVICE, TWO WEEKS FROM 21/12/40 TO 4/1/41. WOULD BE AT RECEPTION CENTRE ("WING") STRATFORD.
6 ITW - 4/1/41 (a course photograph showing this was at Aberystwyth)
NORMAL PROGRESSION (SIX WEEKS WOULD END ca 15/2/41; WAS PROMOTED AS NORMAL TO LAC 16/3/41 (WHY A MONTH LATER ? - PERHAPS HIS ITW DID'T START ON TIME SO FINISHED LATE).
Arnold 1 - 20/5/40 (presumably this should be 20/5/41)
YES. PROBABLY HAD EMBARKATION LEAVE AFTER ITW, BUT WE HAVE 3 MONTHS TO ACCOUNT FOR. REST MIGHT BE AT SOME TRANSIT CAMP. "ARNOLD 1" MIGHT SIMPLY BE NO MORE THAN A NOTIFICATION THAT HE'D BEEN SELECTED FOR AN ARNOLD CONTINGENT.
PTC - 30/5/41 (although again the year is not really legible)
YEAR IS 41. "PERSONNEL TRANSIT CAMP ?" (SOUNDS LIKE BLACKPOOL, WHERE HE'D GET ISSUED WITH A CHEAP CIVVIE SUIT, WHITE SHIRT, TIE & BERET.
Spartan SofA - (no date but then there are 3 entries lower with an inserting arrow)
GUESS: "SPARTAN SONOFABITCH" (CONDITIONS AT BLACKPOOL? - IT DEPENDED ON WHICH BOARDING HOUSE YOU WERE BILLETED ON (SURE AS HELL IT WASN'T THE "IMPERIAL HOTEL !")
Albany (Georgia) - 8/6/41 (ARNOLD)
WOULD BE HIS PRIMARY SCHOOL. AS HE WOULD NORMALLY GRADUATE SIX MONTHS LATER (A FEW DAYS INTO THE NEW YEAR), HE'D BE COURSE 42A. SO IT'D FOLLOW THE LAST AMERICAN COURSE (41K ?) DID HE EVER MENTION THE "HAZING" ? (AT CARLSTROM THEY HAD A RIOT AND PUT A STOP TO IT).
Maxwell Fld (Montgomery, Alabama) - 6/8/41 (ARNOLD)
HIS BASIC SCHOOL. IT WOULD SEEM THAT HE WAS "WASHED OUT" FROM THERE 3 WEEKS INTO HIS 8 WEEK COURSE (WHY ?). WASHOUTS FROM "BASIC" (7%) AND "ADVANCED" (2%) WERE RARE.
3 BFTS Miami (OKLAHOMA - NOT FLA - DREAM ON !) - 28/8/41 BFTS
NOW THIS IS A COMPLETE MYSTERY ! I'VE NEVER HEARD OF SUCH A THING. MIGHT IT BE THAT THEY'D DECIDED TO GIVE HIM A SECOND CHANCE IN A BFTS ? (ALL OUR WASHOUTS WENT STRAIGHT BACK TO CANADA). SEEMS HE SPENT 3 WEEKS THERE ???
PTC - 1/10/41 31PDC Trenton (Ontario) - 7/10/41 and 25/10/41 (2 dates in the same square)
CLEARLY ANOTHER TRANSIT CAMP (IN AND OUT DATES).
33 ANS - 23/11/41 Hamilton (Ontario)
16 WEEKS NAV SCHOOL, 30/3/42 PROMOTED SGT, SO MUST HAVE GOT NAV WING SAME DATE, FOLLOWED BY:-
31 B&GS - 16/3/42 Picton (Ontario)
ONE MONTH BOMBING AND GUNNERY SCHOOL
Discharged (TECHICALITY) - 26/4/42 (Appointed Emerg (WAR SUBSTANTIVE) Comm Plt/Off GD Bch RAFVR 27/4/42)
COMMISSIONED (AND BACK TO UK ?) THE FACT OF HIS BEING ACCEPTED FOR PILOT TRAINING AT 27 YRS OLD WAS UNUSUAL, BUT NOT UNKNOWN (OFFICIAL LIMITS 17½ - 23). BUT ALMOST CERTAINLY PLAYED A PART IN HIS SELECTION FOR COMMISSIONING - THAT, AND THE FACT THAT HE'D HAD A RESPONSIBLE JOB AS A TEACHER.
Best I can do. Let's have the rest of his story whenever you can, Xercules.
Cheers, Danny.
I have been lucky and privileged to have met several gentlemen from the Arnold Scheme at a local airfield on the occasion of one of their reunions - fantastic.
I'm sure it has been mentioned before but for ease of reference: Arnold Scheme
I'm sure it has been mentioned before but for ease of reference: Arnold Scheme