Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
Danny,
your tale of the rebuilding of German cities after WW2 reminds me that someone once said that the UK town planners post WW2 did far more damage than ever the Luftwaffe did. Having seen both the sensitive German reconstructions and some of our 'Maginot Line' school of architecture concrete monstrosities I find it difficult to disagree.
your tale of the rebuilding of German cities after WW2 reminds me that someone once said that the UK town planners post WW2 did far more damage than ever the Luftwaffe did. Having seen both the sensitive German reconstructions and some of our 'Maginot Line' school of architecture concrete monstrosities I find it difficult to disagree.
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I have long been looking for a meaningful book on the rebuilding of Germany. I have often wondered how those acres/sq miles of rubble were converted back to a functional city again. I've seen film clips of the women of Berlin collecting useable bricks from the debris, but there's much more to it than that. Clearing the roads, repairing/replacing all the mains services and re-establishing foundations before you can even contemplate erecting a building ... who did it? How was it done? Where did the plant and materials come from? What priorities? *
As a child I remember, as many here will do, the various "holes" in London's streets post-War, and the great wooden supports that help up the adjacent buildings. At least, in the main, we had 'adjacent' to start from. But what do you do when the starting point is a complete 'Zero"?
* Same applies to Japan, of course.
As a child I remember, as many here will do, the various "holes" in London's streets post-War, and the great wooden supports that help up the adjacent buildings. At least, in the main, we had 'adjacent' to start from. But what do you do when the starting point is a complete 'Zero"?
* Same applies to Japan, of course.
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* Same applies to Japan, of course.
No-one builds with masonry here. With the earthquakes, that would be suicide. The post-war buildings were of very poor quality, and many of those are being replaced now. Modern building regulations are very strict. Everything (including my garage) has reinforced concrete footings, an inverted "T" buried a metre down. You can go up two stories with timber frame, anything taller needs to be steel frame. Frames are bolted to the footings (earthquakes) and roofs are bolted to the walls (typhoons).
Danny
I was interested of your description of the car park with a lift. That is very common here. The simplest hold about 40 cars in two columns and comprise an endless loop with cages. You drive in to an empty cage and park and that's it. When you retrieve the car, hand over the ticket, and they go round and round until yours gets to the bottom. Reverse out, they spin you round on a turntable and Bob's your uncle. The more complex systems, you drive into a "garage", park on a pallet, the doors close and your car gets whisked away and stuffed into a rack. Somewhere. You hope
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Gaining a pilots brevet in WW1
Danny. The German use of cellars as air raid shelters was fine until the authorities in cities such as Dresden came up with the bright idea of knocking down the walls between cellars so that the occupants would not be trapped if the house above collapsed. Unfortunately, the tunnels thus created also made it possible for the fumes from fires above to travel along from cellar to cellar, causing very many more deaths from suffocationi
Last edited by John Purdey; 15th Nov 2013 at 13:28. Reason: sspelling
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ancientaviator62,
Amen to that ! When I think of some of the concrete egg-boxes we put up in the '60s, I can only hope that my old gunner "Stew" (who became an architect post-war) had no part it....D
MPN11,
I wondered that, too. But I remember that when I first went out for a couple of weeks in '54, construction was going on furiously day and (under arc lights) by night. Arbeit might not necessarily macht frei, but it certainly produces results when there's enough of it. And this at a time when the rose willow herb would flourish on many of our bomb sites for years yet.
As for Berlin, not only were they recovering what bricks and masonry they could for re-use, but (so I'm told) the Berliner Omas collected much of the rest and built an artificial "park" (in the form of a small hill) with it. (More information on this would be welcome)....D.
Yamagata Ken,
Has come in on your point, MPN11, (never got to Japan, myself, so IK), but their version of an automated car-park system seems rather frightening. The only "Paternoster" system I ever came across was in the ICI building in Billingham, but that was just a snug passenger cabin (2 pax max), and that was a bit scary for the newcomer, as you had to hop and off the moving lift (it didn't stop at all - except perhaps in emergency if a slow passenger got trapped between it and the gateway ?) But I never heard of anyone getting squashed in that way...D.
John Purdey, Welcome aboard - to this Best of Threads !
The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again! But seriously, if the houses were in a terrace (as they must have been), wouldn't the party wall in the cellar be a load-bearing structure ? (Yes, I suppose they could have put in a RSJ - and all they'd need would be a small door, anyway). But even so, it was a construction job they could well do without, having to build the West Wall and patch up a Dam or two while they were at it.....D.
Regards to you all, Danny.
Amen to that ! When I think of some of the concrete egg-boxes we put up in the '60s, I can only hope that my old gunner "Stew" (who became an architect post-war) had no part it....D
MPN11,
I wondered that, too. But I remember that when I first went out for a couple of weeks in '54, construction was going on furiously day and (under arc lights) by night. Arbeit might not necessarily macht frei, but it certainly produces results when there's enough of it. And this at a time when the rose willow herb would flourish on many of our bomb sites for years yet.
As for Berlin, not only were they recovering what bricks and masonry they could for re-use, but (so I'm told) the Berliner Omas collected much of the rest and built an artificial "park" (in the form of a small hill) with it. (More information on this would be welcome)....D.
Yamagata Ken,
Has come in on your point, MPN11, (never got to Japan, myself, so IK), but their version of an automated car-park system seems rather frightening. The only "Paternoster" system I ever came across was in the ICI building in Billingham, but that was just a snug passenger cabin (2 pax max), and that was a bit scary for the newcomer, as you had to hop and off the moving lift (it didn't stop at all - except perhaps in emergency if a slow passenger got trapped between it and the gateway ?) But I never heard of anyone getting squashed in that way...D.
John Purdey, Welcome aboard - to this Best of Threads !
The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again! But seriously, if the houses were in a terrace (as they must have been), wouldn't the party wall in the cellar be a load-bearing structure ? (Yes, I suppose they could have put in a RSJ - and all they'd need would be a small door, anyway). But even so, it was a construction job they could well do without, having to build the West Wall and patch up a Dam or two while they were at it.....D.
Regards to you all, Danny.
What was 'Loop Shad'?
I hope it's okay to ask this here.
I'm trying to work out what some entries relate to in an old mate's Log Book from his time on 78 OTU at Ein Shemer, Palestine in 1944. I've got a bit stuck as to what ‘Loop Shad' was. Is there anyone who can help?
Thank you.
I'm trying to work out what some entries relate to in an old mate's Log Book from his time on 78 OTU at Ein Shemer, Palestine in 1944. I've got a bit stuck as to what ‘Loop Shad' was. Is there anyone who can help?
Thank you.
Danny
"Small hill..."
Not exactly - just short of 400' high.
Teufelsberg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It sounds very meaningful but as wiki points out, there was no way out of West Berlin for multiple lorry loads so the rubble had to go somewhere.
"Small hill..."
Not exactly - just short of 400' high.
Teufelsberg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It sounds very meaningful but as wiki points out, there was no way out of West Berlin for multiple lorry loads so the rubble had to go somewhere.
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Danny Carries on Swotting.
Things being relatively quiet in the Truck, I helped to pass the time by continuing to work on the "Hugo" German Grammars which I'd bought at Thorney Island, and now another opportunity came up. On the northern end of Cologne there was RAF Butzweilerhof, and there the RAF Education Branch had set up a German language school for us.
I suppose they must have offered full-time Courses for those who were required to know the language for official RAF purposes, but they also had informal "as opportunity offers" day and evening short courses for those who, like myself, were merely interested in it. I don't think there were any fees.
(Curiously, Wiki does not seem to know about this, and I suppose I ought to tell them, but as I have no start/stop dates for the Courses, and nothing to back-up my story, and I don't know how anyway, have decided to let that sleeping dog lie).
Of course, on a four-watch system, there was ample free time at home in the Volkspark, and I had no difficulty in organising myself into a class of "intermediates". I can't remember how much time per week I put in, or how long the Course lasted, but it must have been enough to be useful. At the end, they put me in for a GCE "O" level, I scraped through (can't remember what Grade - honestly !) and still remember the oral.
The system was this, they had a stack of old 78s (which played for 3-4 minutes a side). Each of these told a simple story in German. They played a record to you twice (I think), and then you were questioned (in German, of course) to test your understanding of the story, and your ability to discuss it with your examiner (btw, did they use the same idea then in our schools at home ? - certainly wasn't in French in my time - '38).
I remember mine well. A pudel had stolen a string of wurst from a fleischerei and galloped off with it; the rest of the tale detailed the pursuit of the thief and the eventual recovery of the wurst. (I suppose the butcher ran it under a tap, repacked it and put it back on sale).
But the real interest in all this lies in a side-story. We students took (facetiously) to greeting each other, after lunch, with "Guten Nachmittag" - which no German ever says. "Guten Morgan/Tag/Abend" and "Gute Nacht" - yes. But not "Guten Nachmittag" !
And then a strange thing happened. The German civilian staff on the station (drivers, cleaners clerks, cooks, gardeners etc) heard us addressing each other in this way, and reasoned thus:
"These Englander are being instructed in the German tongue by their Herr Professor . This must, therefore, be korrect. Indeed, have we not seen an open copy of "Duden" * on his desk ? That clinches it - if it's in "Duden" it Must be Right ". Accordingly they started saying it among themselves; the practice spread; and in the end we were well on the way to having created a sub-species of German going around saying "Guten Nachmittag" ! I often wonder if it caught on to any extent.
* (Wiki will tell you all about it)
Gute Nacht, Kameraden, Schlafen Sie Wohl,
Danny42C.
(You gotta speaka da lingo !)
I suppose they must have offered full-time Courses for those who were required to know the language for official RAF purposes, but they also had informal "as opportunity offers" day and evening short courses for those who, like myself, were merely interested in it. I don't think there were any fees.
(Curiously, Wiki does not seem to know about this, and I suppose I ought to tell them, but as I have no start/stop dates for the Courses, and nothing to back-up my story, and I don't know how anyway, have decided to let that sleeping dog lie).
Of course, on a four-watch system, there was ample free time at home in the Volkspark, and I had no difficulty in organising myself into a class of "intermediates". I can't remember how much time per week I put in, or how long the Course lasted, but it must have been enough to be useful. At the end, they put me in for a GCE "O" level, I scraped through (can't remember what Grade - honestly !) and still remember the oral.
The system was this, they had a stack of old 78s (which played for 3-4 minutes a side). Each of these told a simple story in German. They played a record to you twice (I think), and then you were questioned (in German, of course) to test your understanding of the story, and your ability to discuss it with your examiner (btw, did they use the same idea then in our schools at home ? - certainly wasn't in French in my time - '38).
I remember mine well. A pudel had stolen a string of wurst from a fleischerei and galloped off with it; the rest of the tale detailed the pursuit of the thief and the eventual recovery of the wurst. (I suppose the butcher ran it under a tap, repacked it and put it back on sale).
But the real interest in all this lies in a side-story. We students took (facetiously) to greeting each other, after lunch, with "Guten Nachmittag" - which no German ever says. "Guten Morgan/Tag/Abend" and "Gute Nacht" - yes. But not "Guten Nachmittag" !
And then a strange thing happened. The German civilian staff on the station (drivers, cleaners clerks, cooks, gardeners etc) heard us addressing each other in this way, and reasoned thus:
"These Englander are being instructed in the German tongue by their Herr Professor . This must, therefore, be korrect. Indeed, have we not seen an open copy of "Duden" * on his desk ? That clinches it - if it's in "Duden" it Must be Right ". Accordingly they started saying it among themselves; the practice spread; and in the end we were well on the way to having created a sub-species of German going around saying "Guten Nachmittag" ! I often wonder if it caught on to any extent.
* (Wiki will tell you all about it)
Gute Nacht, Kameraden, Schlafen Sie Wohl,
Danny42C.
(You gotta speaka da lingo !)
Last edited by Danny42C; 16th Nov 2013 at 23:34. Reason: Spacing.
Gruß Gott, Danny!
Well, we had a similar system in 1965 when I did my 'O' levels! Except that the story required for the Nacherzählung was read by the supervisor, rather than having been recorded. For the Oxford and Cambridge Schools Examination Board, it formed part of Paper III, Composition and Story. It was the same for French (obviously a different story though!). The other part of Paper III was English into German (or French, as appropriate).
I see that on Monday 12 July 1965, the day started with French III for 2 hours, then French II (Dictation) for ½ hour. After lunch we had German II, then finally German III. The previous week I had French I (Unprepared Translation into English of 2 passages in French) on Wednesday 7 July for 1¾ hours - and the last of the 21 individual exams that I did that Summer was German I on Saturday 17 July, for another joyous 1¾ hours.
Earlier, we'd also had both French and German oral exams - an external examiner would chat with you, then show you a picture on a card, about which he'd ask you various questions.
So yes, a total of 4 exams for French and the same for German. Yet nowadays my foreign language skills are such that I can just about get by in restaurants and that's about it!
I wonder whether 14 year olds are subjected to such torture these days?
Auf Wiederschauen!
They played a record to you twice (I think), and then you were questioned (in German, of course) to test your understanding of the story, and your ability to discuss it with your examiner (btw, did they use the same idea then in our schools at home ? - certainly wasn't in French in my time - '38).
I see that on Monday 12 July 1965, the day started with French III for 2 hours, then French II (Dictation) for ½ hour. After lunch we had German II, then finally German III. The previous week I had French I (Unprepared Translation into English of 2 passages in French) on Wednesday 7 July for 1¾ hours - and the last of the 21 individual exams that I did that Summer was German I on Saturday 17 July, for another joyous 1¾ hours.
Earlier, we'd also had both French and German oral exams - an external examiner would chat with you, then show you a picture on a card, about which he'd ask you various questions.
So yes, a total of 4 exams for French and the same for German. Yet nowadays my foreign language skills are such that I can just about get by in restaurants and that's about it!
I wonder whether 14 year olds are subjected to such torture these days?
Auf Wiederschauen!
Beags,
I would doubt modern children are leaned on to that extent. There's probably an EU regulation that prevents it and protects the little " burgers" from such stress. French was fun when I did it though, our teach was a bit of a "Mariannne Faithful" and just wowed all the lads in our class.
Quels jours heureux
Smudge
I would doubt modern children are leaned on to that extent. There's probably an EU regulation that prevents it and protects the little " burgers" from such stress. French was fun when I did it though, our teach was a bit of a "Mariannne Faithful" and just wowed all the lads in our class.
Quels jours heureux
Smudge
French was fun when I did it though, our teach was a bit of a "Mariannne Faithful" and just wowed all the lads in our class.
To my knowledge Beags, our French teacher married a fellow pupil and to this day teaches her native language. As for Marianne Faithfull;
"Faithfull has recently recorded a cover version of a Stevie Nicks track from the Fleetwood Mac album Tusk as part of a Fleetwood Mac tribute project. The track "Angel" will be released on 14 August 2012 as part of the tribute album Just Tell Me That You Want Me.
On 22 June 2013 she made a sell-out concert appearance at the Queen Elizabeth Hall, with jazz musician Bill Frisell playing guitar, as a part of Meltdown Festival curated by Yoko Ono.[34]
Marianne is currently recording an album of new material, but work has stalled due to a back injury in July 2013." Courtesy of Wikipedia.
It sounds like she is doing OK part from the back injury.
Smudge
"Faithfull has recently recorded a cover version of a Stevie Nicks track from the Fleetwood Mac album Tusk as part of a Fleetwood Mac tribute project. The track "Angel" will be released on 14 August 2012 as part of the tribute album Just Tell Me That You Want Me.
On 22 June 2013 she made a sell-out concert appearance at the Queen Elizabeth Hall, with jazz musician Bill Frisell playing guitar, as a part of Meltdown Festival curated by Yoko Ono.[34]
Marianne is currently recording an album of new material, but work has stalled due to a back injury in July 2013." Courtesy of Wikipedia.
It sounds like she is doing OK part from the back injury.
Smudge
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The Gift of Tongues.
BEagle,
Willkommen !
I'm aghast at the work-load imposed on you in your formative years (you poor lttle sod !)
But what should not go unnoticed is your age when you had the "sudden death" "O" Level GCE exams to contend with - 14.
When, in the intervening years, did 14 become 16, and why ? I got my "Matric" at 14 and a HSC at 16, and that was the norm in those days. Now it's 16 and 18 for the equivalents (and I'm not at all sure about that, judging by results). Where did the two years go ?
I fully agree with your recollection of the utterly impractical way in which languages were taught in our schools in my - and your - times. I could then discourse learnedly on Molière, Racine and Corneille. But ask my way to the Post Office ? - No chance !
Auf wiederhören !... Danny.
Willkommen !
I'm aghast at the work-load imposed on you in your formative years (you poor lttle sod !)
But what should not go unnoticed is your age when you had the "sudden death" "O" Level GCE exams to contend with - 14.
When, in the intervening years, did 14 become 16, and why ? I got my "Matric" at 14 and a HSC at 16, and that was the norm in those days. Now it's 16 and 18 for the equivalents (and I'm not at all sure about that, judging by results). Where did the two years go ?
I fully agree with your recollection of the utterly impractical way in which languages were taught in our schools in my - and your - times. I could then discourse learnedly on Molière, Racine and Corneille. But ask my way to the Post Office ? - No chance !
Auf wiederhören !... Danny.
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When, in the intervening years, did 14 become 16?
1953 Danny, in a rebranding process GCE was introduced with single subject passes. No longer requiring 5 passes to qualify and the minimum age abolished. The guidelines were that a school could enter any pupil they considered would achieve a pass regardless off age.
My school followed this advise very conservatively and I was only entered in 5 subjects all of which I passed. However they made us sit the full quota of 10 for practice. The other 5 papers being marked in house of which I "passed" at least a couple. Now comes the hard bit the school maintained a standard of 6 passes to enter the sixth form so I was obliged to repeat the 5th form.
My school followed this advise very conservatively and I was only entered in 5 subjects all of which I passed. However they made us sit the full quota of 10 for practice. The other 5 papers being marked in house of which I "passed" at least a couple. Now comes the hard bit the school maintained a standard of 6 passes to enter the sixth form so I was obliged to repeat the 5th form.
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Originally Posted by BEagle
I see that on Monday 12 July 1965, the day started with French III for 2 hours, then French II (Dictation) for ½ hour. After lunch we had German II, then finally German III. The previous week I had French I (Unprepared Translation into English of 2 passages in French) on Wednesday 7 July for 1¾ hours - and the last of the 21 individual exams that I did that Summer was German I on Saturday 17 July, for another joyous 1¾ hours.
Marianne Faithfull ...
My old GP, when I was in short trousers, was Marianne's Uncle ... he was also a F/O Aircrew Observer on Beaufighters during WII ... I recall the appointment made to sign-off my medical chit for glider training lasted longer than expected as he had quite a few stories to tell ... a very nice chap.
Best regards ...
Coff.
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14 ? or 16 ?
Pom Pax,
I may have got BEagle wrong. When he said that: "I wonder whether 14 year olds are subjected to such torture these days?", I took it that his "O" level exams were taken in July '65 at that age.
But you tell me that the change was effected in '53. I'm a bit confused (happens a lot these days !) Does it mean that, 12 years after the change was introduced, BEagle's school was still putting boys in for the exam at 14 ?
Clearly, I've got hold of the wrong end of the stick, somehow. Can you lighten my darkness ?
Cheers, Danny
I may have got BEagle wrong. When he said that: "I wonder whether 14 year olds are subjected to such torture these days?", I took it that his "O" level exams were taken in July '65 at that age.
But you tell me that the change was effected in '53. I'm a bit confused (happens a lot these days !) Does it mean that, 12 years after the change was introduced, BEagle's school was still putting boys in for the exam at 14 ?
Clearly, I've got hold of the wrong end of the stick, somehow. Can you lighten my darkness ?
Cheers, Danny
I didn't understand that post either, Danny.
I took Elementary Mathematics (2 papers) in Dec 1964 (either at 13 or just 14, I can't remember), then the following Summer:
I took Elementary Mathematics (2 papers) in Dec 1964 (either at 13 or just 14, I can't remember), then the following Summer:
- Additional Mathematics (2 papers)
- English Language (2 papers)
- French (oral plus 3 papers)
- German (oral plus 3 papers)
- Latin (2 papers)
- Chemistry (practical plus 1 paper)
- Physics (practical plus 2 papers)
- English Literature (2 papers - Shakespeare and Chaucer)
- Scripture Knowledge (2 papers - St. Mark and Acts of the Apostles)
These recent posts all remind me of when I was sitting my Admiralty Interpreter's examinations, the sole naval candidate in an examination room full of candidates from the other Services.
We had reached the section which involved transcribing the invigilator's spoken word from French to English and, sitting in directly in front of the invigilator, I was feverishly scribbling down my best guess at translation, trying hard to keep up with his brisk pace. Pausing to consider the idiomatic translation of a certain turn of phrase, I suddenly realised that he was watching me intently, without saying anything.
Hastily writing down my choice of words, I looked up and he then started reading again, at which point I clicked that he was taking his timing from me. Curiously enough, I slowed down thereafter, and even more curiously, I qualified as a French "interrupter" - and was then promptly went off to take up my next appointment - in Australia!
Jack
We had reached the section which involved transcribing the invigilator's spoken word from French to English and, sitting in directly in front of the invigilator, I was feverishly scribbling down my best guess at translation, trying hard to keep up with his brisk pace. Pausing to consider the idiomatic translation of a certain turn of phrase, I suddenly realised that he was watching me intently, without saying anything.
Hastily writing down my choice of words, I looked up and he then started reading again, at which point I clicked that he was taking his timing from me. Curiously enough, I slowed down thereafter, and even more curiously, I qualified as a French "interrupter" - and was then promptly went off to take up my next appointment - in Australia!
Jack