Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
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Having been a shipbroker in the European coastal trades for some 45 years, I can confirm that for many years all and any Russian coastal vessels calling at a UK port would depart back east with all available flat surfaces covered in old cars of any variety: whatever the local second hand dealers and scrapyards could supply. Quite a lot of under deck space was also used for redundant fridges and other 'white goods'. A considerable perk for the crew.
Though the condition of the ships was probably worse than that of the cars on the deck.
Though the condition of the ships was probably worse than that of the cars on the deck.
Shipping cars of any vintage to Eastern Europe is currently huge business. We have a local garage which ships 30 cars a month to Lithuania. The last old car I sold, a very unusual Renault, was bought by a Pole, He wasn't interested in hearing about any faults as the car "would be on a lorry to Poland that night". Apparently they are required to meet the demand for spares.
Back to Pilot's Brevets in WW2 (sorry).
I am helping a friend decipher her Dad's service record. It is pretty sparse, but making progress. Flt Lt DACM Comer DFC AFC was a Halton brat who was selected for flying training in1942. sent to Terrell and "awarded pilot's distinguishing badge" April 43. Returned to UK and commissioned 3/44 before going through OTU and HCU. Was on 51 10/44-5/45, and sent to SE Asia 5/45. Seemed to do a variety of test pilot and odd jobs (press reports mention supply dropping in Burma) before returning to UK at the end of 47 and posting to 19Gp Comms Flt. He flirted with Meteor and Canberra OCU after a short tour on 90 Sqn on the Washington, and returned to Washingtons on 192 Sqn. He did an exchange with the Australians on the DC3, returned to the UK and was offered PI or FC, which he turned down and left the service and flew for the Government of Tanzania. He was awarded the DFC in a long list of recipients in autumn 45, but no citation seems to be available, and the AFC on conclusion of his 192 tour, but again cannot find a citation.
Obviously looked at relevant issues of the Gazette, but interested to find out what he might have been doing in SE Asia and also at 390 MU at Seletar before he returned to UK. Also interested in German raid on Wattisham on 1 Nov 40, in which the guy, then a sgt, was injured, and if it is likely he was an unofficial gunner in 110 Sqn's Blenheims.
Thanks
W
I am helping a friend decipher her Dad's service record. It is pretty sparse, but making progress. Flt Lt DACM Comer DFC AFC was a Halton brat who was selected for flying training in1942. sent to Terrell and "awarded pilot's distinguishing badge" April 43. Returned to UK and commissioned 3/44 before going through OTU and HCU. Was on 51 10/44-5/45, and sent to SE Asia 5/45. Seemed to do a variety of test pilot and odd jobs (press reports mention supply dropping in Burma) before returning to UK at the end of 47 and posting to 19Gp Comms Flt. He flirted with Meteor and Canberra OCU after a short tour on 90 Sqn on the Washington, and returned to Washingtons on 192 Sqn. He did an exchange with the Australians on the DC3, returned to the UK and was offered PI or FC, which he turned down and left the service and flew for the Government of Tanzania. He was awarded the DFC in a long list of recipients in autumn 45, but no citation seems to be available, and the AFC on conclusion of his 192 tour, but again cannot find a citation.
Obviously looked at relevant issues of the Gazette, but interested to find out what he might have been doing in SE Asia and also at 390 MU at Seletar before he returned to UK. Also interested in German raid on Wattisham on 1 Nov 40, in which the guy, then a sgt, was injured, and if it is likely he was an unofficial gunner in 110 Sqn's Blenheims.
Thanks
W
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Wander00
He was on the same course as my dad in Terrell.
I will post the group photo later, for now here is one of him from the year book.
edit
He does not appear on the Group photo for No. 12 course, but as appears he is in the Year Book.
He was on the same course as my dad in Terrell.
I will post the group photo later, for now here is one of him from the year book.
edit
He does not appear on the Group photo for No. 12 course, but as appears he is in the Year Book.
Last edited by roving; 27th Feb 2018 at 17:10.
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Having distinguished himself as a WWII Bomber Command pilot, he is yet another pilot whom on being too deemed too old to fly and/or be promoted in the Post Sandys Royal Air Force in the late 1950's had his terms of service downgraded.
No wonder he retired at his own request in 1964 to fly as a commercial pilot.
Transfer to Supplementary List conditions of service
Flight Lieutenant David Anthony Claude Marcel COMER, D.F.C., A.F.C. (54616), who was appointed to a permanent commission, is transferred to the Supplementary List under the terms of A.M.O.A.87/59, retaining his existing rank and seniority.16th Sept. 1959.
Flight Lieutenant David Anthony Claude Marcel COMER, D.F.C., A.F.C. (54616), who was appointed to a permanent commission, is transferred to the Supplementary List under the terms of A.M.O.A.87/59, retaining his existing rank and seniority.16th Sept. 1959.
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roving (#11847),
There were worse things - in 1952 I got a "Limited Career" Permanent Commission. (For "Limited", read "Zero"). .... We'll keep you on till age 50 (later 55) and pension you off. You will not get past Flight Lieutenant. Take it or leave it! (I took it, after all it beats working for a living).
He may have been a Wop/AG on 110, been selected for pilot training and gone to BFTS Terrell for training. The rest of 110 went out to India in mid-1942, had their Blenheims taken off them and ferried back to the M.E. I joined them at Christmas 1942 and paired up with "Stew" Mobsby as my Wop/AG on the new Vultee Vengeances which nobody knew anything about.
But it was a good life ................
Danny.
There were worse things - in 1952 I got a "Limited Career" Permanent Commission. (For "Limited", read "Zero"). .... We'll keep you on till age 50 (later 55) and pension you off. You will not get past Flight Lieutenant. Take it or leave it! (I took it, after all it beats working for a living).
He may have been a Wop/AG on 110, been selected for pilot training and gone to BFTS Terrell for training. The rest of 110 went out to India in mid-1942, had their Blenheims taken off them and ferried back to the M.E. I joined them at Christmas 1942 and paired up with "Stew" Mobsby as my Wop/AG on the new Vultee Vengeances which nobody knew anything about.
But it was a good life ................
Danny.
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FED (#11849),
No tie, but I've had the last laugh. Retired 1972 with a pension of 42% of my pay (inc Marriage and Ration Allce.), Index linked, have drawn it for 46 years now, probably more, in real terms, than ever they paid me in Service!
No tie, but I've had the last laugh. Retired 1972 with a pension of 42% of my pay (inc Marriage and Ration Allce.), Index linked, have drawn it for 46 years now, probably more, in real terms, than ever they paid me in Service!
Last edited by Danny42C; 28th Feb 2018 at 19:52. Reason: Spacing.
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I was demobbed in 1973 after 12 years service. In 1975 the RAF introduced a new pension scheme in which all service (not just the minimum of 22 years) counted towards a pension at 60. I couldn't even count my 12 years towards my Civil Service pension when I retired at 60 in 2003. A lot of us were affected by the 1975 pension scheme
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Danny42, in the box of my late father's goodies dating back from the 1950's, there was a pair of dark goggles. I recall trying them on as a boy and I couldn't see much. I assume, perhaps wrongly, that they were used for practising instrument flying during daylight. But would the instruments in day light be bright enough to be seen through these darken goggles?
Maybe a year back somebody posted a sad picture of Vengeance aircraft being dismantled for scrap. I've searched without success, would be grateful if someone could give me a steer. Thanks!
Roving: just noticed your post re goggles, if these are orange they belonged to the two stage amber system, windows had blue screens so the instructor could see out by day but it seemed like moonlight to the goggled pupil. I was given a couple of pairs as a youngster at Binbrook in 1950, but not the Oxford from which they came
Roving: just noticed your post re goggles, if these are orange they belonged to the two stage amber system, windows had blue screens so the instructor could see out by day but it seemed like moonlight to the goggled pupil. I was given a couple of pairs as a youngster at Binbrook in 1950, but not the Oxford from which they came
Last edited by Geriaviator; 1st Mar 2018 at 14:46. Reason: Reply to roving
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roving (#11852),
I confirm Geriaviator's explanation: it was known as the: "Two-stage Amber" System. Never used it myself, I think the idea was that the stude could see his instruments through the amber goggles, but the windscreen appeared black.
When I bust the celluloid back screen of the rag-top of my Bond "Minicar", I found an offcut of amber perspex, cut it to size and nut 'n bolted it to cover the hole. The vulgar jest was: "Because her Dad wears dark glasses!"
Danny.
I confirm Geriaviator's explanation: it was known as the: "Two-stage Amber" System. Never used it myself, I think the idea was that the stude could see his instruments through the amber goggles, but the windscreen appeared black.
When I bust the celluloid back screen of the rag-top of my Bond "Minicar", I found an offcut of amber perspex, cut it to size and nut 'n bolted it to cover the hole. The vulgar jest was: "Because her Dad wears dark glasses!"
Danny.
Two-stage Amber" System.
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 1st Mar 2018 at 17:37.
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Geriaviator, Fareastdriver & Danny42, thank you both for the explanations. I guess he used them when he did a tour as a UAS CFI at Woodvale in the early 1950's.
Last edited by roving; 2nd Mar 2018 at 04:43. Reason: corrected
It was used both ways. Blue goggles/amber screens in Europe and the other way round in the tropics.
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...0-%200611.html
In 1989 General Noriega was overthrown by the USA and his personal Super Puma became redundant. It ended up on the North Sea and it was noticeable because all the windows were tinted blue presumable because of the sunshine in Panama.
On the passenger brief we would advise them that if they found any packets of white powder lying about they were to pass them up to the pilots.
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...0-%200611.html
In 1989 General Noriega was overthrown by the USA and his personal Super Puma became redundant. It ended up on the North Sea and it was noticeable because all the windows were tinted blue presumable because of the sunshine in Panama.
On the passenger brief we would advise them that if they found any packets of white powder lying about they were to pass them up to the pilots.
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 1st Mar 2018 at 19:29.
Dsrsia described how his father went straight from training in the USA to an instructors course.
This is my dad's instructor's course photo - he is 4th from the left on the 2nd row. He was a Pilot Officer when he began and completed the course, that is within 6 months of being commissioned when he was awarded the brevet at the end of his course at 1 BFTS, Texas.
The idea, I think, was that newly qualified pilots would have more empathy with those undergoing training.
As I posted on another occasion he rebelled and pressed for a transfer to an operational Sqn flying Spitfires. It did not go down well at all, but in the end he got the posting he wanted.
One of the reasons he was so pushy about this, is that when, as a 22 year old, he went to Padgate at the beginning of the war, he was clutching his pilot's A Licence which he earned partially at his own expense on the Civil Air Guard Scheme. However he was told that the Royal Air Force did not need partially trained pilots, what they needed was trainee aircraft fitters. So on a lick and a promise that when flying training was available he would be on the list, he signed-up. In early 1942 he was still hard at it.
Then there was a rumour that some of the fitters were going to be posted to India. He knew it was a case of 'now or never' and made his case to a Senior Officer. He was tested on his flying ability and instead of travelling from Southampton to India, he travelled from Liverpool to Canada and from there to Texas. Some 4 years later when he was a war substantive SO and was able to ask questions, he gently enquired why he had had to wait so long for selection. "Put it down to the administrative chaos of the war" was the reply. But by then the Royal Air Force had made it up to him.
This is my dad's instructor's course photo - he is 4th from the left on the 2nd row. He was a Pilot Officer when he began and completed the course, that is within 6 months of being commissioned when he was awarded the brevet at the end of his course at 1 BFTS, Texas.
The idea, I think, was that newly qualified pilots would have more empathy with those undergoing training.
As I posted on another occasion he rebelled and pressed for a transfer to an operational Sqn flying Spitfires. It did not go down well at all, but in the end he got the posting he wanted.
One of the reasons he was so pushy about this, is that when, as a 22 year old, he went to Padgate at the beginning of the war, he was clutching his pilot's A Licence which he earned partially at his own expense on the Civil Air Guard Scheme. However he was told that the Royal Air Force did not need partially trained pilots, what they needed was trainee aircraft fitters. So on a lick and a promise that when flying training was available he would be on the list, he signed-up. In early 1942 he was still hard at it.
Then there was a rumour that some of the fitters were going to be posted to India. He knew it was a case of 'now or never' and made his case to a Senior Officer. He was tested on his flying ability and instead of travelling from Southampton to India, he travelled from Liverpool to Canada and from there to Texas. Some 4 years later when he was a war substantive SO and was able to ask questions, he gently enquired why he had had to wait so long for selection. "Put it down to the administrative chaos of the war" was the reply. But by then the Royal Air Force had made it up to him.
