Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
Danny, on the Vampires and Venoms thread, Nutloose posted the link to the Jever website. One of the stories by a pilot called Bob Broad caused me to chuckle in my cornflakes. Just in case you missed it, as it's a bit buried, the link is
Jever Steam Laundry - 98 Sqn stories 001 When the wing went to Gilze-rijen June 1952.
Enjoy!
Jever Steam Laundry - 98 Sqn stories 001 When the wing went to Gilze-rijen June 1952.
Enjoy!
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This 85 minute video is the remarkable recollection of Ellis Knowlton. He recalls in great detail many incidents from WW2 including training in South Africa and the Middle East, and operations / sorties as a fighter rec pilot flying Spitfire MK 9s with 208 (My dad's Squadron). Post he obtained funding to study at University for a science degree and flew with 608 Aux Air Squadron.
It was recorded in 2009 when he was aged 87. 208 Squadron Assoc website records that he died last year.
Flight Lieutenant Ellis Knowlton
add
Because of idleness on my part, I did not mention that he grew-up half a mile from the Supermarine factory in Southampton where his cousin was an apprentice toolmaker at the outset of the war and witnessed the bombing of that factory.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/...f-Britain.html
It was recorded in 2009 when he was aged 87. 208 Squadron Assoc website records that he died last year.
Flight Lieutenant Ellis Knowlton
add
Because of idleness on my part, I did not mention that he grew-up half a mile from the Supermarine factory in Southampton where his cousin was an apprentice toolmaker at the outset of the war and witnessed the bombing of that factory.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/...f-Britain.html
Last edited by roving; 8th Mar 2018 at 10:53. Reason: added
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My Dad, the RAF navigator 1945
Ladies and gentlemen of the best thread on the Forum, I discovered this thread three months ago after a tip-off on PistonHeads and have been spellbound ever since. My reading has only taken me to page 277 so far but I feel I just have to share some details and mementos of my Dad's training in South Africa with you now rather than wait until I am completely up to date.
Norman Frank Hibbert was born in August 1924, left Hackney Downs School on 17th July 1940 not quite 16 years old and went to work for Anglo American Oil Co. Ltd at Esso House. There he received his RAF welcome letter from The Secretary of State for Air dated 3rd December and post marked 4th December 1942. I have the original. It looks the same as the one posted earlier in the thread, including the phrase "Arrangements will be made to help you with your studies, and you will be told about these in due course.".
Quite when and where he started his training I have no information but he was out in South Africa at 45 Air School, Oudtshoorn on Course 43 'C' Flight and only graduated in June 1945. I have a welcome information pamphlet for Cape Town, some 43 Course dinner cards including the graduation dinner on 19th June 1945 signed by all course members and some group photographs. The highlight is a 64 page final issue of "The Sprog" (the official magazine of 45 Air School) dated March 1945 containing a history of the Oudtshoorn Training Station and a large number of group photographs for each of the sub sections of the permanent staff. I also have three small booklets. The first is a pale buff coloured paperback entitled "Far Eastern Survival Land & Sea", the second an untitled pale blue paperback with A-Z tear-out pages advising how to communicate with people in Assyrian, Azerbaijan, Arabic, Persian, Kurdish, Turkish and Russian. The third is a cloth booklet entitled "Pointie Talkie in Chinese".
He told me that the training was on Avro Ansons (most of the group photographs include an Anson) and at some time, presumably after qualifying and before being demobbed, he navigated Avro Yorks on the "far east mail run".
Sadly he died from cancer at the age of 54 when I was 24 and I regret never pressing for more information. But he did leave me a box of photos and stuff that I will share with you later. I need to accumulate 10 posts first!
And he taught me how to read a map and navigate.
He would take the family to air shows where I got my lifelong passion for aircraft and flying. The three incidents that I vividly recall from the 1960's are watching a four ship Vulcan scramble at an RAF Finningley airshow, being gently rear ended in our Ford Zodiac Mk 2 in the traffic queue for an RAF Waddington airshow and hitting the deck in the grass car park as a Buccaneer bounced the crowd from behind at about 200 feet! Now that was some arrival! And I can't remember where that was. Wouldn't be allowed these days.
We lived in Grimsby right under the outgoing and incoming Binbrook Lightnings on QRA. We counted them out and back (30 minutes later) three times a day all through my teens.
Best wishes
Jeremy
Man is not lost, man is temporarily unsure of his position.
Norman Frank Hibbert was born in August 1924, left Hackney Downs School on 17th July 1940 not quite 16 years old and went to work for Anglo American Oil Co. Ltd at Esso House. There he received his RAF welcome letter from The Secretary of State for Air dated 3rd December and post marked 4th December 1942. I have the original. It looks the same as the one posted earlier in the thread, including the phrase "Arrangements will be made to help you with your studies, and you will be told about these in due course.".
Quite when and where he started his training I have no information but he was out in South Africa at 45 Air School, Oudtshoorn on Course 43 'C' Flight and only graduated in June 1945. I have a welcome information pamphlet for Cape Town, some 43 Course dinner cards including the graduation dinner on 19th June 1945 signed by all course members and some group photographs. The highlight is a 64 page final issue of "The Sprog" (the official magazine of 45 Air School) dated March 1945 containing a history of the Oudtshoorn Training Station and a large number of group photographs for each of the sub sections of the permanent staff. I also have three small booklets. The first is a pale buff coloured paperback entitled "Far Eastern Survival Land & Sea", the second an untitled pale blue paperback with A-Z tear-out pages advising how to communicate with people in Assyrian, Azerbaijan, Arabic, Persian, Kurdish, Turkish and Russian. The third is a cloth booklet entitled "Pointie Talkie in Chinese".
He told me that the training was on Avro Ansons (most of the group photographs include an Anson) and at some time, presumably after qualifying and before being demobbed, he navigated Avro Yorks on the "far east mail run".
Sadly he died from cancer at the age of 54 when I was 24 and I regret never pressing for more information. But he did leave me a box of photos and stuff that I will share with you later. I need to accumulate 10 posts first!
And he taught me how to read a map and navigate.
He would take the family to air shows where I got my lifelong passion for aircraft and flying. The three incidents that I vividly recall from the 1960's are watching a four ship Vulcan scramble at an RAF Finningley airshow, being gently rear ended in our Ford Zodiac Mk 2 in the traffic queue for an RAF Waddington airshow and hitting the deck in the grass car park as a Buccaneer bounced the crowd from behind at about 200 feet! Now that was some arrival! And I can't remember where that was. Wouldn't be allowed these days.
We lived in Grimsby right under the outgoing and incoming Binbrook Lightnings on QRA. We counted them out and back (30 minutes later) three times a day all through my teens.
Best wishes
Jeremy
Man is not lost, man is temporarily unsure of his position.
Tr.9er
Welcome to the best cyber-crewroom on t'Net. Pull up a comfy chair but the one with a glass holder and foot warmer is Danny's
, the coffee bar is in the corner but please wash your mug when finished.
Now where were we ....
Welcome to the best cyber-crewroom on t'Net. Pull up a comfy chair but the one with a glass holder and foot warmer is Danny's
, the coffee bar is in the corner but please wash your mug when finished.Now where were we ....
Yes indeed, welcome TR9er, and you'll find the content just gets better and better! Keep your story coming and it is customary to fill Danny's glass on entry to the crewroom. FZ, p277 places us back in the middle of Danny's story and I've got just the item on the assembly line to follow it up. Let me clinch a few rivets and polish the alloy first, won't be long 
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Tr.9er (#11869),
Fantom Zorbin and Geriaviator have just beaten me to it (I was having my afternoon snooze), so, in my capacity as Oldest Inhabitant and Grand Old Man of this incomparable Thread, let me belatedly welcome you into our honoured company, where "never is heard a discouraging word". Drag a cyber-pew up to the cyber-stove and give it a poke! ....
Tr.9 - That dates you! I gather that you are one of the Navigating fraternity: I'm sure we were on the four-stud VHFs when I crawled back in under the wire in '49. Let's have a bit of CV. Meanwhile, this is absolutely the right place for your Dad's story; the name does not ring a bell with me (but sometimes that holds true of my own name!)
As you've struggled as far as p.277, you'll know my story; what's well begun is half done, only another 300 odd to go. Press on Rewardless!
Danny.
Fantom Zorbin and Geriaviator have just beaten me to it (I was having my afternoon snooze), so, in my capacity as Oldest Inhabitant and Grand Old Man of this incomparable Thread, let me belatedly welcome you into our honoured company, where "never is heard a discouraging word". Drag a cyber-pew up to the cyber-stove and give it a poke! ....
Tr.9 - That dates you! I gather that you are one of the Navigating fraternity: I'm sure we were on the four-stud VHFs when I crawled back in under the wire in '49. Let's have a bit of CV. Meanwhile, this is absolutely the right place for your Dad's story; the name does not ring a bell with me (but sometimes that holds true of my own name!)
As you've struggled as far as p.277, you'll know my story; what's well begun is half done, only another 300 odd to go. Press on Rewardless!
Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 9th Mar 2018 at 16:48. Reason: Addns
Hello Tr.9er
My late father was a nav instructor in SA round about that time, after surviving a tour with 106. Their paths may have crossed, perhaps?
From dad's Movements Record, obtained from Cranwell, I have: "Rhodesian Air Trg Gp" from 13-Aug '43 and then from 2/2/44 "26 Elementary Flg Trg Sch" as a Staff Nav (with RATG in the GRP. column - not sure what this means?). He shows back in the UK 7/9/45 with duties Nav Bomb.
I don't have much more on this, & his wartime log was lost in a fire in Japan in '47.
Regards,
Tim.
From dad's Movements Record, obtained from Cranwell, I have: "Rhodesian Air Trg Gp" from 13-Aug '43 and then from 2/2/44 "26 Elementary Flg Trg Sch" as a Staff Nav (with RATG in the GRP. column - not sure what this means?). He shows back in the UK 7/9/45 with duties Nav Bomb.
I don't have much more on this, & his wartime log was lost in a fire in Japan in '47.
Regards,
Tim.
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FantomZorbin, geriaviator and Danny42C
Thank you for your warm welcomes. It is quite something to be in conversation with you directly after three months of vicarious listening in!
I’m drafting a few tales to tell.
Best wishes
Jeremy
Thank you for your warm welcomes. It is quite something to be in conversation with you directly after three months of vicarious listening in!
I’m drafting a few tales to tell.
Best wishes
Jeremy
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Tim00
If your Dad was at Oudtshoorn in 1945 his photo should appear in the staff photographs in The Sprog magazine I will be able to share when I have established my credibility with the moderators. Or 10 posts at any rate.
If your Dad was at Oudtshoorn in 1945 his photo should appear in the staff photographs in The Sprog magazine I will be able to share when I have established my credibility with the moderators. Or 10 posts at any rate.
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'RATG' is surely Rhodesian Air Training Group? Or am i misreading something?
Sorry.Tr.9er: If you're able to share any photos, I'd I imagine many here would be interested.
PS - I feel a bit of a fraud posting here, with no military background myself - hope this is OK.
It doesn't seem like six years since Danny began posting his account of training in Florida and meeting the Vultee Vengeance dive-bomber on posting to India. This superb picture from late 1944 shows Danny in his favourite VV M-Mother with the Western Ghats in the background. He had been appointed to command of a special flight based at Cannanore on the Malabar (west) coast of India.
You will notice the sinister shapes under the wings, but they are not bombs. They are containers of mustard gas which was sprayed over Army volunteers to test the efficiency (or otherwise) of anti-gas capes and equipment.
Danny's fascinating story from September 2012 can be revisited from Post #3036, page 152 of this thread. The trials were in case the Japanese used gas when the Allies eventually invaded their homeland. Very few people knew of this project which was carried out under the aegis of Porton Down, the chemical warfare laboratories of the time.
Britain had long prepared for gas warfare. My father joined 142 Sqn in 1938 when their Hawker Hind biplanes were changed for Fairey Battles and the squadron sent on exercise to Montrose on the east coast of Scotland.
The exercise involved attacks on troop formations and one day the Battles were fitted with underwing tanks containing a harmless (they said) yellow dye. The RAF had heard that a big parade with much Army bull was due to be held the following Saturday (of course nobody goes to war at weekends) and the Battles swept over the hillside and sprayed the sparkling soldiery with dye, to much Army annoyance even though the stuff washed off.
Later, however, the squadron was quietly told that the gas tanks were not just for pranks. Should an aggressor use gas, Britain had stocks of chemicals with which we could and would retaliate.
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Tim00;
I have scanned all the photos and most of the booklets and they are ready on Flickr for sharing once my post count reaches the magic number that will allow me to add the links to a post on here.
I'm with you Tim00, never been in the military, just interested, and telling my dad's story such as it is. I'm hoping that the documents I have to share will be of interest and broaden the understanding of life on a training station.
Oudtshoorn was a huge place set up for training, so there were sections for bomb aiming, wireless operators, photographic and navigation all backed up by a large base contingent of HQ, HQ Signals, Sick Quarters, Dental Section, Pilots, Equipment Section, Fire Section, Maintenance Wing, Communications Flight, MT Section, Armory, Native Military Corps, Canteen Staff, Safety Equipment Section, Technical Reference Library, Service Police, Cooks and Caterers, Meteorological Section, Pigeon Section and a SAWAS Canteen committee.
Best wishes
Jeremy
I have scanned all the photos and most of the booklets and they are ready on Flickr for sharing once my post count reaches the magic number that will allow me to add the links to a post on here.
I'm with you Tim00, never been in the military, just interested, and telling my dad's story such as it is. I'm hoping that the documents I have to share will be of interest and broaden the understanding of life on a training station.
Oudtshoorn was a huge place set up for training, so there were sections for bomb aiming, wireless operators, photographic and navigation all backed up by a large base contingent of HQ, HQ Signals, Sick Quarters, Dental Section, Pilots, Equipment Section, Fire Section, Maintenance Wing, Communications Flight, MT Section, Armory, Native Military Corps, Canteen Staff, Safety Equipment Section, Technical Reference Library, Service Police, Cooks and Caterers, Meteorological Section, Pigeon Section and a SAWAS Canteen committee.
Best wishes
Jeremy
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Geriaviator (#11878),
Spare my blushes! (My weary tale starts on P.114, #2262 in fact). Now, for light relief, I charge you to please put up your side-splitting tale of the Khormaksar Church Parade, which is the funniest thing ever on Forum bar none. Would do it myself, but cannot trace it: "Search this Thread" being as much use as a chocolate teapot.
Seems Porton Down is in the news again with this latest carry-on.
Danny.
Spare my blushes! (My weary tale starts on P.114, #2262 in fact). Now, for light relief, I charge you to please put up your side-splitting tale of the Khormaksar Church Parade, which is the funniest thing ever on Forum bar none. Would do it myself, but cannot trace it: "Search this Thread" being as much use as a chocolate teapot.
Seems Porton Down is in the news again with this latest carry-on.
Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 10th Mar 2018 at 12:54. Reason: Spacing!