Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
Don't bother with standing around in corners, Danny, we need you here. Though if you are putting on the kettle anyway for MPN11, mine's a tea, NATO standard? Thanks! 
ICM,
your explanation fits the bill ! In those hectic days I think the log books (and squadron F540) would not be 100 % accurate. Even my log books written in peacetime contain one or two entries that do not quite seem correct !
your explanation fits the bill ! In those hectic days I think the log books (and squadron F540) would not be 100 % accurate. Even my log books written in peacetime contain one or two entries that do not quite seem correct !
78 Sqn
Jeff Jefford's book 'RAF Squadrons' shows the following dates for the squadron and it's bases.
Mar 42 ( at Croft ) changed from Whitley Vs to Halifax MK2, which it kept until Jan 44.
10 Jun 42 to Middleton St George
16 Sep 42 to Linton-On-Ouse
16 Jun 43 to Breighton , where it remained until the end of the war.
It commenced re-equipping as a Transport squadron with Dakotas from Jun 45.
Mar 42 ( at Croft ) changed from Whitley Vs to Halifax MK2, which it kept until Jan 44.
10 Jun 42 to Middleton St George
16 Sep 42 to Linton-On-Ouse
16 Jun 43 to Breighton , where it remained until the end of the war.
It commenced re-equipping as a Transport squadron with Dakotas from Jun 45.
Brian,
thanks for that. The likely answer is that the Middleton bit was never changed after they moved back to Breighton. As I mentioned 'base' is the default entry. But he would have been on 78 at the same time as the chap in sidevalve's wonderful story. The difference being that he was never shot down. The log book makes no mention of being shot at ! And he did survive to become OC 10 Sqn with the Halifax and then out to India with the Dakota. I have always thought that a tadge unfair that those in 4 Group who survived ops over the continent should then have been sent out to India. But then 4 Group with the Halifax was perhaps a bit of a 'Cinderella' group.
thanks for that. The likely answer is that the Middleton bit was never changed after they moved back to Breighton. As I mentioned 'base' is the default entry. But he would have been on 78 at the same time as the chap in sidevalve's wonderful story. The difference being that he was never shot down. The log book makes no mention of being shot at ! And he did survive to become OC 10 Sqn with the Halifax and then out to India with the Dakota. I have always thought that a tadge unfair that those in 4 Group who survived ops over the continent should then have been sent out to India. But then 4 Group with the Halifax was perhaps a bit of a 'Cinderella' group.
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First, TTN has lightened my darkness (very subtle - must've been after my [more innocent] time). And I've recovered from the mental aberration (Senior Moment) which led me to confuse the subject with the narrator.
À propos nothing at all, we had the one and only OMQ at Breighton from late 1962 to 1964 (as nobody else wanted it). Stationed at Linton, it was a 25 mi commute via York, I bought an old "Isetta " for £75 from a Nav for the job, and had a lot of fun with it. There was no flying on the airfield: it was a "Bloodhound" site then.
Plenty of rabbits !
Chugalug and MPN11 - how many sugars ? - and the honesty pot wants cash up front - IOUs NOT ACCEPTED !
Re the Australian "Aviation Safety Digest" story from Fleigel [#11004], here is my two cent's worth (I've told a somewhat similar tale here on p.156, #3101 ("Danny and the Day that the Rains Came"):
Almost certainly 12 RAAF Squadron. If only we could get hold of this chap (if he still lives) - or the ORB for those days. What tactical formation did they use ? (like us in Burma, there would be nothing to go on - they've had to work it all out for themselves) From what height (AGL) did they bomb. And pull-out ? What sort of accuracy did they achieve ? - the questions crowd in.
We did the same. In Australian midsummer, temperatures would've been much as dry-season India. 8,000 amsl would give a welcome drop of around 20 F.
No provision for oxygen in our VVs. Did they have any in theirs ?
Didn't know that. As there was no power assistance, no one could pull more than 4-5G without "grey-out". But useful when stuck in a cu-nim. I can vouch for the "robust" bit, too.
About 420 mph, or 600 ft/sec if straight down. No wonder the climb/descent was off the clock ! With dive brakes out (which might have been a good idea), the terninal velocity was around 300 mph, or 400 ft/sec. Would've given him a bit more thinking time.
"Get-home-at-all-costs-itis" has killed many. OTOH, turning round in an angry cu-nim is not to be recommended !
Not sure about that. Procedural trainer it is. Simulator it ain't.
And so say all of us !
Danny.
À propos nothing at all, we had the one and only OMQ at Breighton from late 1962 to 1964 (as nobody else wanted it). Stationed at Linton, it was a 25 mi commute via York, I bought an old "Isetta " for £75 from a Nav for the job, and had a lot of fun with it. There was no flying on the airfield: it was a "Bloodhound" site then.
Plenty of rabbits !
Chugalug and MPN11 - how many sugars ? - and the honesty pot wants cash up front - IOUs NOT ACCEPTED !
Re the Australian "Aviation Safety Digest" story from Fleigel [#11004], here is my two cent's worth (I've told a somewhat similar tale here on p.156, #3101 ("Danny and the Day that the Rains Came"):
...including a spell in a dive bomber squadron...
...I climbed to the planned cruising altitude of 8000 feet...
...At 14,000 feet over Mansfield...
...Vengeance was a very stable and robust machine with wings built to withstand about 12g...
...The airspeed was over 350 knots and the rate of descent was `off the clock' ...
...Pressing on was the major sin...
... I survived probably because of regular sessions on the ground in the Link Trainer...
...But if you want to be an old pilot, it is better to treat the weather with the respect it deserves...
Danny.
AA62: Right, I now know your man - a relatively rare Bomber Command CO who wasn't a pilot. When he flew on Ops, it was normally as Air Bomber and when in India, as Second Pilot until a supply of two-winged ex-glider pilots was sent out to take over. He was still CO for the fateful detachment to Burma in March 1946 and I wonder if his logbook says anything at all about the 3 losses on 29 March 46 and the subsequent searches for survivors?
ICM,
yes he did well for a hostilities only non pilot. 4 Group had a reputation for promoting and appointing non pilots to such posts . I think an A/G called 'Lofty' Lowe became OC 77 at one time.
The last entry in the log book is Jan. 8th 1946 from Palam to Poona in 'Dak' KP 293 (difficult to read !) Co-Pilot. Interestingly once he became the squadron boss he does not bother with monthly summaries etc. No mention of any incidents.
yes he did well for a hostilities only non pilot. 4 Group had a reputation for promoting and appointing non pilots to such posts . I think an A/G called 'Lofty' Lowe became OC 77 at one time.
The last entry in the log book is Jan. 8th 1946 from Palam to Poona in 'Dak' KP 293 (difficult to read !) Co-Pilot. Interestingly once he became the squadron boss he does not bother with monthly summaries etc. No mention of any incidents.
Danny: 10 Sqn had been detached to Burma in mid-March 1946 to drop rice and salt to Kachin villages in the mountains. I understand that the villagers had agreed to destroy their rice stocks to deny these to the Japanese but, with the war at a end, this left them in a desperate situation in which there was a moral responsibility for the UK to help out. Flights were mounted from Meiktila and Myitkyina. On 29 March, 3 aircraft and crews went missing. Searches were begun and, on 3 April, a crew found itself facing a blind-end after a turn and got out with full power and a dose of good luck. However, in the midst of this, wreckage of 2 aircraft was spotted together with a figure waving madly. He was an Indian Sepoy, who had helped with loading, and he proved to be the sole survivor. Wreckage of the 3rd aircraft was seen the next day, and supplies were dropped. Aerial searching continued until 12 April but nothing more was found. The supply dropping task was completed in late April, some weeks earlier than anticipated, and the Squadron returned to Poona. It moved about a month later to Mauripur, its base until its return to the UK and disbandment in December 1947.
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How bloody tragic. Although you could, I guess, say the same about many airframe/crew losses. It's just an extra "bu66er" when it happens doing 'nice' things.
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Ricardian, your slight change of topic highlights a campaign that most on here would support.
Danny,
for the princely sum of £1 I have bought a mutilated copy of Jane's 1945/6 from our local charity bookshop. There is a picture of 'The Consolidated Vultee Vengeance Mk 4 Dive Bomber (Wright R-2600-13 engine)' on page 229.
It looks like it is taking off but I cannot see any markings at all other than a roundel.
According to the blurb some were supplied to Brazil.
for the princely sum of £1 I have bought a mutilated copy of Jane's 1945/6 from our local charity bookshop. There is a picture of 'The Consolidated Vultee Vengeance Mk 4 Dive Bomber (Wright R-2600-13 engine)' on page 229.
It looks like it is taking off but I cannot see any markings at all other than a roundel.
According to the blurb some were supplied to Brazil.
Last edited by ancientaviator62; 22nd Jul 2017 at 09:30. Reason: spelling
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ancientaviator62 (#11037),
True, according to Peter c. Smith's "Vengeance!", which is the nearest thing to a bible on the "Vultee Vengeance". Some Mk IVs were also supplied to the Free French in Agadir, but they did not have much success with them [same source]. We had some in the UK as TTs.
I would think that, as I've said somewhere here, the trouble was that: "the Vengeance (Mks I-III) were 'one-trick ponies' - excellent dive-bombers, but useless for anything else" - except as target tugs. I never had anything to do with the IV, which I'd guess would be useless, period.
It would be marvellous to hear from a RAAF ex-operational VV driver like George Duffee (I'm alive, so no reason why there should not be others), as they got a lot of the Mk.IVs, and may have tried to dive some as well as converting them to TT.
I live in hope ! Danny.
True, according to Peter c. Smith's "Vengeance!", which is the nearest thing to a bible on the "Vultee Vengeance". Some Mk IVs were also supplied to the Free French in Agadir, but they did not have much success with them [same source]. We had some in the UK as TTs.
I would think that, as I've said somewhere here, the trouble was that: "the Vengeance (Mks I-III) were 'one-trick ponies' - excellent dive-bombers, but useless for anything else" - except as target tugs. I never had anything to do with the IV, which I'd guess would be useless, period.
It would be marvellous to hear from a RAAF ex-operational VV driver like George Duffee (I'm alive, so no reason why there should not be others), as they got a lot of the Mk.IVs, and may have tried to dive some as well as converting them to TT.
I live in hope ! Danny.
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Sorry Danny, unable to give any more info that what is on the web page. Try refreshing your browser and then loading the page again. Worked OK for me.
