Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
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Walter,
You're as welcome back as the showers in Spring ! (and summer and autumn and winter here).
Another slice of your saga for us to enjoy (although it cannot have been fun for you at the time). We've all been holding our breath to see how you escaped a watery grave (although we knew you must have done) and look forward to more, much more !
One tiny cavil, surely the stock phrase was: "For you,Tommy ze war ees over" ?
Must have been glad to get home. Yes, York's a lovely old place isn't it ? Yorkshire is God's own county (or so they say around here). Not sold on the idea myself (although I married a Yorkshire lass). Red rose of Lancashire for me ! (Liverpool Irishman, actually).
Danny.
You're as welcome back as the showers in Spring ! (and summer and autumn and winter here).
Another slice of your saga for us to enjoy (although it cannot have been fun for you at the time). We've all been holding our breath to see how you escaped a watery grave (although we knew you must have done) and look forward to more, much more !
One tiny cavil, surely the stock phrase was: "For you,Tommy ze war ees over" ?
Must have been glad to get home. Yes, York's a lovely old place isn't it ? Yorkshire is God's own county (or so they say around here). Not sold on the idea myself (although I married a Yorkshire lass). Red rose of Lancashire for me ! (Liverpool Irishman, actually).
Danny.
Having flown a hot formation with a JU 52 I can confirm with a conversation with the pilot that it was a heavy old bird to push around.
Chugalug mentioned the JU53/3M. The 3M was not the bodge tape it was held together with but the designation for three motors as the first ones were built with just one engine. The Fokker DVII/3M that Kingsford Smith flew across the Pacific was of a similar description, the aircraft being available with two (DVII/2M) or three engines.
Chugalug mentioned the JU53/3M. The 3M was not the bodge tape it was held together with but the designation for three motors as the first ones were built with just one engine. The Fokker DVII/3M that Kingsford Smith flew across the Pacific was of a similar description, the aircraft being available with two (DVII/2M) or three engines.
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Now Hear This ! Have a look at:
MPN11 would be interested, I'm sure, for it reflects the Fighter Control part of Area Radar. I found it fascinating; for it fully explains the technical background of the work of the 3608 (Auxiliary) Fighter Control Unit (of which I was purely the "admin" Adjutant).
And it is beautifully written; The term: "The Hole" was in general use, and not just for our particular "Hole" (RAF Seaton Snook). Our CH Towers rose 360 ft above the N.York Moors at Danby Beacon. The little bungalow on top was the same. Did not know that the SPs in it took the F1250s off the privileged few, and exchanged them for brass tokens (same idea and same reason as the mines).
As I've related before, the SPs would have turned me away without brass tag, for I (or the Station Commander for that matter) didn't have a Special Security Clearance (on a Need to Know basis).
Looking forward to the rest of the "series",
Danny.
...PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast>If you had to be in WWII, which bit would you choose?>Page 4>#80>(Sallyann1234>Quote: UK based Chain Home radar mechanic You might find this site interesting...Ventnor Radar: Home Page & Index. RAF Domestic & technical sites)..
And it is beautifully written; The term: "The Hole" was in general use, and not just for our particular "Hole" (RAF Seaton Snook). Our CH Towers rose 360 ft above the N.York Moors at Danby Beacon. The little bungalow on top was the same. Did not know that the SPs in it took the F1250s off the privileged few, and exchanged them for brass tokens (same idea and same reason as the mines).
As I've related before, the SPs would have turned me away without brass tag, for I (or the Station Commander for that matter) didn't have a Special Security Clearance (on a Need to Know basis).
Looking forward to the rest of the "series",
Danny.
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I hope Danny42C is watching Channel 4 now ... filmic memories of The War in Burma.
A forgotten film of a forgotten army...very appropriate.
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MPN11, Yes he was !.....Chugalug, What a remarkable find ! Of course, most of the shots were in back areas, as is only to be expected (never saw a trace of this Film Unit in the whole of my time in Burma, and never even knew it existed). No mention of the RAF, but caught a glimpse of a F/O at one point. And NigG will have seen the "Chinthe" badge , the emblem of the 'Chindits' with which his father, Wg Cdr Arthur Gill of 84 Sqn, closely cooperated.
But it was good to see the maps. Perhaps some people now know for the first time where the Arakan was (and Kohima and Imphal in Assam). There, with a roof over our heads, a bed to sleep on, and grub to eat, we had it good, and pitied the PBI, who squelched about in the monsoon mud as seen.
Strange, but they missed two worthwhile points. I would have thought they would at least have quoted the well known Kohima Epitath. And, of course, the 'Forgotten Army' derives from General Bill Slim's address to his troops:
But then, you can't expect a BBC producer to know things like that, can you ?
Danny.
But it was good to see the maps. Perhaps some people now know for the first time where the Arakan was (and Kohima and Imphal in Assam). There, with a roof over our heads, a bed to sleep on, and grub to eat, we had it good, and pitied the PBI, who squelched about in the monsoon mud as seen.
Strange, but they missed two worthwhile points. I would have thought they would at least have quoted the well known Kohima Epitath. And, of course, the 'Forgotten Army' derives from General Bill Slim's address to his troops:
... "You men call yourselves the Forgotten Army. You've not been forgotten. It's just that no one's ever heard of you !"...
Danny.
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Morning, Danny42C ... glad you saw the programme, even if it was 'Pongo-orientated' 
And thanks for the link at #8805 ... I have just finished reading that. Very informative. My only encounter with that subterranean world, and the T80 radar, was at RAF Sopley on the Area Radar course in 1970 ... a very Cold War underground environment, and a marked transition for those used to sitting in Local gazing out at an airfield. The sensation of passing the Police post in the 'bungalow' entrance, and then descending those long sloping corridors, with huge blast doors and 90º bends, was really quite spooky and a clear reminder of the nuclear risks we faced in those days.
Much of RAF Sopley still seems to be standing, in all its Seco-hutted glory, according to Google Earth. However, the only remaining evidence of the Ops site [3/4 miles to the West] is the 'bungalow' entrance to the underground installation and a stub or two of roadway where the car park used to be.
As an aside, I was led to believe that the turning gear bearings on the T80 were actually based on wartime cruiser gun turrets ... which of course were never intended to rotate continuously at 4 rpm. Apparently they leaked lubricating oil permanently!
And thanks for the link at #8805 ... I have just finished reading that. Very informative. My only encounter with that subterranean world, and the T80 radar, was at RAF Sopley on the Area Radar course in 1970 ... a very Cold War underground environment, and a marked transition for those used to sitting in Local gazing out at an airfield. The sensation of passing the Police post in the 'bungalow' entrance, and then descending those long sloping corridors, with huge blast doors and 90º bends, was really quite spooky and a clear reminder of the nuclear risks we faced in those days.
Much of RAF Sopley still seems to be standing, in all its Seco-hutted glory, according to Google Earth. However, the only remaining evidence of the Ops site [3/4 miles to the West] is the 'bungalow' entrance to the underground installation and a stub or two of roadway where the car park used to be.
As an aside, I was led to believe that the turning gear bearings on the T80 were actually based on wartime cruiser gun turrets ... which of course were never intended to rotate continuously at 4 rpm. Apparently they leaked lubricating oil permanently!
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Save a Pilot's Ass !
Someone well-known to us on "Military Aviation" this morning led me on a trail to a link which gave me a You Tube vocal rendering of this heartrending ballad. (My apologies to him for not noting his name or what Thread). So I appeal to him, if he reads this, please make himself known to us again, so that I can thank him for a good chortle, and please put in the link again, as I heartily recommend clicking on to it.
Don't know how many crimes I've committed, lifting this from You Tube without permission, but will throw myself on mercy of the court and hope for the best. (And I do still have my dollar-silver wings of an old Army Air Corps Pilot which should entitle me to some clemency !)
Here we go:
Danny42C
EDIT:
Found it! (Fareastdriver, of course !)
Jet Blast>If you had to be in WWII, which bit would you choose?>Page 5>#86
D.
Don't know how many crimes I've committed, lifting this from You Tube without permission, but will throw myself on mercy of the court and hope for the best. (And I do still have my dollar-silver wings of an old Army Air Corps Pilot which should entitle me to some clemency !)
Here we go:
Danny42C
*************
Oscar Brand - "Save a fighter pilot's ass" Published on Sep 22, 2013
"Oh, Halleliua, Halleliua
Throw a nickel on the grass--Save a fighter pilot's ass.
Oh, Halleliua, Oh, Halleliua
Throw a nickel on the grass and you'll be saved.
I was cruising down the Yalu, doing six and twenty per
When a call came from the Major, Oh won 't you save me sir?
Got three flak holes in my wing tips, and my tanks ain't got no gas.
Mayday, mayday, mayday, I got six MIGS on my ass.
I shot my traffic pattern, and to me it looked all right,
The airspeed read one-thirty, I really racked it tight!
Then the airframe gave a shudder, the engine gave a wheeze,
Mayday, mayday, mayday, spin instructions please.
It was split S on my Bomb run, and I got too God Damn low
But I pressed that bloody button, and I let those babies go
Sucked the stick back fast as blazes, when I hit a hight speed stall
I won't see my mother when the work all done next fall.
They sent me down to Pyongyang, the brief said "no ack ack"
by the time that I arrived there, my wings was mostly flak.
Then my engine coughed and sputtered, it was too cut up to fly
Mayday, mayday, mayday, I'm too young to die.
I bailed out from the Sabre, and the landing came out fine
With my E and E equipment, I made for our front line.
When I opened up ration, to see what was in it,
The God damn quartermaster why he filled the tin with grit.
***********
Oscar Brand - "Save a fighter pilot's ass" Published on Sep 22, 2013
"Oh, Halleliua, Halleliua
Throw a nickel on the grass--Save a fighter pilot's ass.
Oh, Halleliua, Oh, Halleliua
Throw a nickel on the grass and you'll be saved.
I was cruising down the Yalu, doing six and twenty per
When a call came from the Major, Oh won 't you save me sir?
Got three flak holes in my wing tips, and my tanks ain't got no gas.
Mayday, mayday, mayday, I got six MIGS on my ass.
I shot my traffic pattern, and to me it looked all right,
The airspeed read one-thirty, I really racked it tight!
Then the airframe gave a shudder, the engine gave a wheeze,
Mayday, mayday, mayday, spin instructions please.
It was split S on my Bomb run, and I got too God Damn low
But I pressed that bloody button, and I let those babies go
Sucked the stick back fast as blazes, when I hit a hight speed stall
I won't see my mother when the work all done next fall.
They sent me down to Pyongyang, the brief said "no ack ack"
by the time that I arrived there, my wings was mostly flak.
Then my engine coughed and sputtered, it was too cut up to fly
Mayday, mayday, mayday, I'm too young to die.
I bailed out from the Sabre, and the landing came out fine
With my E and E equipment, I made for our front line.
When I opened up ration, to see what was in it,
The God damn quartermaster why he filled the tin with grit.
***********
EDIT:
Found it! (Fareastdriver, of course !)
Jet Blast>If you had to be in WWII, which bit would you choose?>Page 5>#86
D.
Last edited by Danny42C; 27th Jun 2016 at 12:37. Reason: STOP PRESS !
MPN11
FZjr reports that RAF Sopley has now been levelled totally and a housing estate is being erected. The Ops site is now one of those sites that have copious chain-link fencing, padlocks and no names!
FZjr reports that RAF Sopley has now been levelled totally and a housing estate is being erected. The Ops site is now one of those sites that have copious chain-link fencing, padlocks and no names!
There was a booklet of clever cartoons issued to Mossie pilots during the war.
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MPN11,
And the Type 13 "Height Finders" ! Remember they had one at RAF Fazackerley (Liverpool) when the "Volunteer Reserve" restarted after WWII, and I rejoined as a Flying Officer.
On the other side of the nearby wire fence, a knot of spectators would gather from time to time to gawp at the "Nodding Donkey". We would give the operator a buzz, he would swing it round pointing at them, then nod up and down menacingly. Cleared the crowd in moments !
How we laughed!...... Danny.
And the Type 13 "Height Finders" ! Remember they had one at RAF Fazackerley (Liverpool) when the "Volunteer Reserve" restarted after WWII, and I rejoined as a Flying Officer.
On the other side of the nearby wire fence, a knot of spectators would gather from time to time to gawp at the "Nodding Donkey". We would give the operator a buzz, he would swing it round pointing at them, then nod up and down menacingly. Cleared the crowd in moments !
How we laughed!...... Danny.
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FantomZorbin... thanks for your #8811. I did notice, driving by in Street View, there was a large "Land Acquired by .." board by the old Guardroom. Oh well, that's an inevitable fate for a large collection of Seco Huts, and another bit of my past disappeared under a bulldozer blade [along with Strubby, Eastern Radar, Locking, Bracknell, Bentley Priory [well, parts of it], Uxbridge, West Drayton].
Danny42C ... I don't think we got to use data from the Nodding height finders on the Course, but obviously the Southern Radar people on the main Ops Floor did. We did our training in Cabins on the upper level, overlooking their 'reality', with a mix of real radar data and simulator input returns, IIRC. Of course, the T82 at Watton et al didn't need supplementary devices, with it's in-built stacked beam array providing height information [although we were limited to 5000 ft vertical separation when using height-finder data].
Danny42C ... I don't think we got to use data from the Nodding height finders on the Course, but obviously the Southern Radar people on the main Ops Floor did. We did our training in Cabins on the upper level, overlooking their 'reality', with a mix of real radar data and simulator input returns, IIRC. Of course, the T82 at Watton et al didn't need supplementary devices, with it's in-built stacked beam array providing height information [although we were limited to 5000 ft vertical separation when using height-finder data].
We had a 'nodding horror at our helicopter base in the nineties at Shenzhen. It was probably a Chinese copy of a Russian copy of a American radar. It had an enormous valve somewhere in the cabinets which would take ages to warm up and we would watch a miniature lightening bolt working its way across a small dial until it crossed and then it was working.
The operator would swing it around until it was pointing along out departure track and the nodding bit would paint pictures of all the cus and cunimbs defining the base and the tops.
At the turn of the century is was scrapped and we just had Hong Kong weather on the internet which gave us a full radar picture of cloud for a sixty miles radius of Chep Lap Kok.
The operator would swing it around until it was pointing along out departure track and the nodding bit would paint pictures of all the cus and cunimbs defining the base and the tops.
At the turn of the century is was scrapped and we just had Hong Kong weather on the internet which gave us a full radar picture of cloud for a sixty miles radius of Chep Lap Kok.
Walter 603, good to see you posting again, albeit as a POW. Talking of which, the kindness of strangers, be they Greeks bearing gifts or simply disaffected members of the Wehrmacht, reminds us all of the importance of common humanity as against that of various "isms".
A lesson perhaps that we in good old Blighty need to bear in mind in the next two years or so....
A lesson perhaps that we in good old Blighty need to bear in mind in the next two years or so....
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Stanwell (your wish is my command !),
The Griffon engine had the power to rotate a Spit round its own prop at low airspeed. On take-off, you fed the power in very slowly. With wheels on the ground it did its best by not merely swinging right (if you let it), but by a most peculiar "right close march" motion. It literally "hopped" to the right across the runway while the nose remained pointing straight down it.
How you managed on a formation take-off I don't know. If you slapped the power on in the air, it would perform a sort of three-dimensional version of a knight's move in chess (leapt 50ft up and 50ft out to the side at the same time).
Of course, all this is on the basis of less than 20 hrs on the things. Our more experienced
colleagues took all this in their stride and were quite happy with them.
Still prefer the Merlins, though.
Danny.
The Griffon engine had the power to rotate a Spit round its own prop at low airspeed. On take-off, you fed the power in very slowly. With wheels on the ground it did its best by not merely swinging right (if you let it), but by a most peculiar "right close march" motion. It literally "hopped" to the right across the runway while the nose remained pointing straight down it.
How you managed on a formation take-off I don't know. If you slapped the power on in the air, it would perform a sort of three-dimensional version of a knight's move in chess (leapt 50ft up and 50ft out to the side at the same time).
Of course, all this is on the basis of less than 20 hrs on the things. Our more experienced
colleagues took all this in their stride and were quite happy with them.
Still prefer the Merlins, though.
Danny.
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Danny42C ... "What would they do with the Hole?"
I have a vague* recollection that one was/is being used as a secure computer data storage facility. Don't ask me what that means in technical terms, but it would certainly be physically secure.
* most of my recollections are vague, of course.
I have a vague* recollection that one was/is being used as a secure computer data storage facility. Don't ask me what that means in technical terms, but it would certainly be physically secure.
* most of my recollections are vague, of course.
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MPN11,
I was worrying about how the "bearing strength" of the former open land around the former "hole" would be affected by wholesale building on top. There have been cases up here in the past where alarming chasms have suddenly opened over long closed mine workings below. The data and its keeepers stored in a former 'hole' might be secure - for all eternity !
Retrieving it might be a problem though !
Danny.
I was worrying about how the "bearing strength" of the former open land around the former "hole" would be affected by wholesale building on top. There have been cases up here in the past where alarming chasms have suddenly opened over long closed mine workings below. The data and its keeepers stored in a former 'hole' might be secure - for all eternity !
Retrieving it might be a problem though !
Danny.
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I think the R1/R3 bunkers, with concrete walls several feet thick, aren't going to collapse and create 'sink holes' any time soon. 
The Ops site at Sopley is some way from the camp and, at present, has no building activity on it.
By the way, did you ever hear about the incident re: the tramp down the 'hole'?
By the way, did you ever hear about the incident re: the tramp down the 'hole'?