Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
Danny, some confirmation on chaps being posted to gliders late in the war comes from a Flight Commander on 10 Sqn, in India by late 1945 after converting to Dakotas. Writing home to his wife, he mentions having "a full complement of pilots now, over half of them are glider bods who haven't flown since Service school, and who were put onto gliding when they returned to England." (Up to that point, crews had kept their Halifax Air Bombers as 2nd pilots on the Dakota.)
ICM,
that chimes exactly with the log books of the OC 10 Sqn after they were posted to India with Dakotas. On Halifaxes his entries are as Navigator or Air Bomber. The entries of his time in India are 'Co-Pilot' until they cease on 8 Jan 1946 when I assume he was repatriated.
that chimes exactly with the log books of the OC 10 Sqn after they were posted to India with Dakotas. On Halifaxes his entries are as Navigator or Air Bomber. The entries of his time in India are 'Co-Pilot' until they cease on 8 Jan 1946 when I assume he was repatriated.
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NigG,
Welcome to our Old Crewroom in Cyberspace - and well met, Sir !
This puzzles me. I believe the decision to halt VV operations (on the onset of the '44 monsoon) was a policy one made by "Command" (in our case AHQ, Delhi). As to the exact date the axe fell, I cannot really help, as I was away recuperating from injuries sustained in my forced landing on 24th February, and did not come back until it was all over. Mistaken policy though it was (IMHO), I see no reason why it should not have applied to all the Squadrons.
We had all tried shallow dives (ca 45°) in monsoon weather, but discarded the idea because the famed VV accuracy had gone (the enormous nose of the VV plus the extra AoA from the zero AoI made for very poor forward visibilty) - and in any case the Hurricane and Beaufighter could do the job better, as they could see where they were going, and were much more agile - both important considerations when you are dodging round the jungle hills low level in pouring rain !
To carry out a "standard" VV dive, the drill was to start, as you say, from 10-12,000 AGL. You must be able to see your target from there (the leader above all, as unless he starts his dive absolutely vertically, the rest will be "off" increasingly as they follow him down). Trial and (lethal !) error had shown that if the average chap pulls as hard as he can (to the point of "grey-out") as the altimeter passes 3,500 AGL, he will finish level at 1,000 or so. That sounds a fair margin, but as you were coming down at terminal velocity (300 mph with dive brakes out), it works out at 400 ft/sec - or 2½ seconds leeway. You hadn't a lot to play with ! Of course, you would not pull to be level at 1,000 (making yourself a fine target !). but eased off at the end to get down to the treetops ASAP with most of your 300 mph, you would be very unlucky to be hit then.
So they were (but not until the Spitfires came on the scene !) And they cannot be everwhere at the same time. But Burma is a big place; there were no "Early Warning" systems; the Vengeance "boxes" on Army Support simply took off to reach target at a time fixed by the Army. Then the troops would close in to 100 yards on the Jap bunker or other strongpoint, ready to fire the mortar smoke bomb onto it when they saw and heard us coming. 24 bombs, four tons of HE, would go into the bunker area in 20 seconds, any surviving Jap would be so dazed by noise and blast that he could offer little resistance when the troops rushed in with grenade, rifle and bayonet to mop up.
True !
Never heard of that - ever (except in the case of the Jap high level .air raid on Khumbirgram - my Post on "Gaining a RAF Pilot's Brevet in WWII" Thread p.136 #2710 -"Danny loses an Elephant").
Enough ! I must go now, will be off line....I may be gone some time...
Danny42C.
PS: Agree - you Dad should have got the DSO (unless he got the DFC for shooting down the Oscar ?)
Welcome to our Old Crewroom in Cyberspace - and well met, Sir !
.... In fact, they did continue to operate after the other VV squadrons had been withdrawn. The vertical dive started at about 12000', the aircraft finishing at maybe 200', and the pilot had to aim at the target, so low cloud made it unworkable. However, 84 developed a low level dive, which was less accurate, but still pretty effective..
We had all tried shallow dives (ca 45°) in monsoon weather, but discarded the idea because the famed VV accuracy had gone (the enormous nose of the VV plus the extra AoA from the zero AoI made for very poor forward visibilty) - and in any case the Hurricane and Beaufighter could do the job better, as they could see where they were going, and were much more agile - both important considerations when you are dodging round the jungle hills low level in pouring rain !
To carry out a "standard" VV dive, the drill was to start, as you say, from 10-12,000 AGL. You must be able to see your target from there (the leader above all, as unless he starts his dive absolutely vertically, the rest will be "off" increasingly as they follow him down). Trial and (lethal !) error had shown that if the average chap pulls as hard as he can (to the point of "grey-out") as the altimeter passes 3,500 AGL, he will finish level at 1,000 or so. That sounds a fair margin, but as you were coming down at terminal velocity (300 mph with dive brakes out), it works out at 400 ft/sec - or 2½ seconds leeway. You hadn't a lot to play with ! Of course, you would not pull to be level at 1,000 (making yourself a fine target !). but eased off at the end to get down to the treetops ASAP with most of your 300 mph, you would be very unlucky to be hit then.
...You question why the VV didn't have more problems with Oscar fighters. In fact, the Allies had nine times the number of squadrons as the Japs, over Burma, in support of the '44/'45 offensive ... definite air superiority! Squadrons of Spits and Hurricanes were doing an excellent job of knocking down enemy aircraft...
...rarely flew with fighter cover...
...So if enemy aircraft were sighted in the target area, the mission would be delayed until it was 'safer' to operate...
Enough ! I must go now, will be off line....I may be gone some time...
Danny42C.
PS: Agree - you Dad should have got the DSO (unless he got the DFC for shooting down the Oscar ?)
Last edited by Danny42C; 9th May 2016 at 08:25. Reason: Corrn.
Danny is going off line now........I may be some time.
And then only two hours 59 minutes to your next post, Danny! More seriously, special thoughts whatever the reason or, as they in this part of the world whatever age you are, "You go kerful, young man".
Jack
And then only two hours 59 minutes to your next post, Danny! More seriously, special thoughts whatever the reason or, as they in this part of the world whatever age you are, "You go kerful, young man".
Jack
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Crying "Wolf" !
FALSE ALARM
Facing the prospect of a long stay in our local Hospital (a thousand beds, 9,000 staff, one of the largest in Europe), but very nice, obliging Consultant decided he could continue with me on an out-patient basis (probably short of beds !), so I'm back in the firing line again TFN.
Thank you all for your kind wishes, feel a bit of a fool...
Danny42C
Thank you all for your kind wishes, feel a bit of a fool....
'The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man
knows himself to be a fool.' - Shakespeare
Jack
'The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man
knows himself to be a fool.' - Shakespeare
Jack
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Danny. My heart skipped a beat when I read your message reminiscent of Titus Oates. How it jumped for joy learning that you have been discovered safe and well. The world (not just the PPRuNe world) would be a lesser place without you.
You need to write a book. It'd be a bestseller.
You need to write a book. It'd be a bestseller.
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Ian16th,
On the spot, Ian ! (as the only man of any eminence who lived here), Captain James Cook's name is stuck on just about everything else. He was born (reputedly) about a mile as the crow flies from where I now sit. If any town on Teesside produced seaside rock (Redcar ?), it would have "James Cook" in the middle.
I understand that, among other places, he discovered a land where there are kangaroos and which was at one time useful to us as a penal colony. Only joking !
To all my wellwishers, heartfelt thanks,
Danny.
On the spot, Ian ! (as the only man of any eminence who lived here), Captain James Cook's name is stuck on just about everything else. He was born (reputedly) about a mile as the crow flies from where I now sit. If any town on Teesside produced seaside rock (Redcar ?), it would have "James Cook" in the middle.
I understand that, among other places, he discovered a land where there are kangaroos and which was at one time useful to us as a penal colony. Only joking !
To all my wellwishers, heartfelt thanks,
Danny.
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Danny42C Congrats on escaping incarceration. I was in for four weeks and just got loose a week ago with continued surgeon's supervision - freedom is marvellous.
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Danny
Although Capt Cook has no known grave, his sister is buried in Redcar.
Not a lot of people know that.
On the spot, Ian ! (as the only man of any eminence who lived here), Captain James Cook's name is stuck on just about everything else. He was born (reputedly) about a mile as the crow flies from where I now sit. If any town on Teesside produced seaside rock (Redcar ?), it would have "James Cook" in the middle.
Not a lot of people know that.
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Point of order. The esteemed Capt. Cook didn't discover Terra Australis, he was just the first European to 'claim' it. The Dutch beat him by ~160 years, hence the name 'New Holland'.
It's unlikely that Cook ever had a grave, known or otherwise;
"The esteem which the islanders nevertheless held for Cook caused them to retain his body. Following their practice of the time, they prepared his body with funerary rituals usually reserved for the chiefs and highest elders of the society. The body was disembowelled, baked to facilitate removal of the flesh, and the bones were carefully cleaned for preservation as religious icons in a fashion somewhat reminiscent of the treatment of European saints in the Middle Ages. Some of Cook's remains, thus preserved, were eventually returned to his crew for a formal burial at sea."
Attempting to kidnap an Hawaiian king was probably not one of his smartest moves!
It's unlikely that Cook ever had a grave, known or otherwise;
"The esteem which the islanders nevertheless held for Cook caused them to retain his body. Following their practice of the time, they prepared his body with funerary rituals usually reserved for the chiefs and highest elders of the society. The body was disembowelled, baked to facilitate removal of the flesh, and the bones were carefully cleaned for preservation as religious icons in a fashion somewhat reminiscent of the treatment of European saints in the Middle Ages. Some of Cook's remains, thus preserved, were eventually returned to his crew for a formal burial at sea."
Attempting to kidnap an Hawaiian king was probably not one of his smartest moves!