Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
Guest
Posts: n/a
Taphappy,
Don't mention it ! We were every bit as absorbed as you were in our own affairs out there; the European theatre was a distant rumble of something that was going on half a world away. News of Glorious Victories and (rather a lot of) Masterly Strategic Withdrawals filtered out to us, of course, and they were received with a certain amount of cynicism, but mostly we crossed off the days till the "troopship just leaving Bombay" of the song would have us on board.
We did a three-year tour, but it could vary a bit. Humour? "it's bein' so cheerful 'as keeps us goin'" - I suspect it was the same with you.
Trial by Water was never inflicted on us, although we had the whole Bristol Channel on the doorstep; you would have been better off in the sea: you float better in salt water. (How do you con a PFI that you can swim 100yd when you can't? - Chugalug's question - Waterwings?) Perhaps that's why "Tee Emm" placed such emphasis on dinghy drill - half the crews couldn't swim!
Two storey bunks - how did they manage Kit Inspections ? - on stilts?
7/6 a day, and you're not even an LAC yet? And you go on leave till the next posting ? Were there no Transit Camps ?..... Air Force's goin' to the dogs!........ Now in my time, Sir........
Seriously, Taphappy, keep up the good work. You're doing fine. (it's up to me, now),
Danny.
Don't mention it ! We were every bit as absorbed as you were in our own affairs out there; the European theatre was a distant rumble of something that was going on half a world away. News of Glorious Victories and (rather a lot of) Masterly Strategic Withdrawals filtered out to us, of course, and they were received with a certain amount of cynicism, but mostly we crossed off the days till the "troopship just leaving Bombay" of the song would have us on board.
We did a three-year tour, but it could vary a bit. Humour? "it's bein' so cheerful 'as keeps us goin'" - I suspect it was the same with you.
Trial by Water was never inflicted on us, although we had the whole Bristol Channel on the doorstep; you would have been better off in the sea: you float better in salt water. (How do you con a PFI that you can swim 100yd when you can't? - Chugalug's question - Waterwings?) Perhaps that's why "Tee Emm" placed such emphasis on dinghy drill - half the crews couldn't swim!
Two storey bunks - how did they manage Kit Inspections ? - on stilts?
7/6 a day, and you're not even an LAC yet? And you go on leave till the next posting ? Were there no Transit Camps ?..... Air Force's goin' to the dogs!........ Now in my time, Sir........
Seriously, Taphappy, keep up the good work. You're doing fine. (it's up to me, now),
Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 11th Jul 2012 at 16:36. Reason: Correct Spelling Error.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wide Brown Land
Age: 39
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An English rear gunner of my acquaintance told me once that the non-swimmers were "dragged/forced" to cover the mandatory distance in the swimming test by hanging off a bamboo pole. Apparently this was 'assistance', not 'cheating'!
Adam
Adam
Guest
Posts: n/a
Danny is On His Way - again.
Danny is on his way from 110 Sqn. in Khumbirgram to 8 Sqn. IAF (but where might that be?)
I had to abandon my DIY bed, but of course stripped off the webbing and put it in my bedroll, so that I could easily rebuild it at the other end. All our previous trips to and fro the "sharp end" had been self-flown, so this one was a bit of an eye-opener.
A bumpy truck ride took us to the railhead at Silchar (the end of the line into our corner of Assam). Then it was a train to some God-forsaken hole in the middle of the Sunderbans (the name "Narayanganj" seems familiar). There we embarked in a stern-wheel paddle steamer (quite a comfortable cabin for the night). This threaded its way through innumerable islands and waterways (I could see where the "dug-out canoe" yarn, told us at Worli, might have come from). Disembarked somewhere in the morning, back on a train to Calcutta - Howrah station again!
This time we did not bed down there for the night! A good dinner, bed and breakfast in the "Grand", and back on the train for Chaara (I have absolutely no idea where that was), except that it was somewhere in Orissa. On a standard strip-cum-basha camp (indistinguishable from fifty others in the district) was the brand new No. 8 Squadron of the Indian (for a brief period the Royal Indian) Air Force. Or at least the outline of a Squadron.
I think it was a political thing. Independence was in the air, and we wanted to hand over a "going concern", with all three Services up and running after the war. There had been a Royal Indian Navy for years, and an Indian Army from the days of the Mutiny. We had an Indian C.O. (Sqn.Ldr. N. Prasad). He struck me as a very reserved, scholarly, intellectual type, far better suited as a Staff officer than in the rough-and-tumble of Squadron life (he did, IIRC, reach air rank in the postwar IAF).
He was replaced some time in February '44 by Sqn.Ldr. Ira K. Sutherland, a tough New Zealander with a hard reputation as a martinet. The Indian "A" Flight Commander, Flt.Lt. "Pop" Chopra, was the exact opposite of S/Ldr Prasad. A mustachioed, cheerful extrovert, he was the life and soul of the party and very popular with everyone. The British "B" Flight Commander was Flt.Lt. "Bill" Boyd Berry (no hyphen), an excellent Flight leader and well liked. His crews were a mixture of British and all the Dominions, all of them from one or other of the four original ex-Blenheim squadrons.
I can only recall two of the Indian pilots, (F/Os Dhillon and Chakravarthy), and there were two or three Sikhs. They were all good chaps, but most had come straight from the OTU in Peshawar. How much bombing practice they had had there, I don't know, but it can have been nothing like the four months' intensive work we'd been able to put in on the Damodar range early in the year. The Indian ground crews were very inexperienced, and needed close supervision by RAF NCOs and airmen trawled, like us, from the squadrons.
This Indian nucleus had had their aircraft for some weeks before we arrived, but they had done little with them. Certainly they had done no bombing (AFAIK, there wasn't even a range). Much more to the point, they hadn't swung any compasses, or belted-up a single round of ammunition for their guns.
(Since first writing this, I find that you can Google: "Officers and Flight Crew List - 8 Squadron IAF (1939-47)" and go straight to a most useful Nominal Roll in BHARAT RAKSHAK. It seems that on 26 Nov '43, 20 RAF aircrew joined 8 Sqdn - many names familiar to me, my own included!, and a further 39 before hostilities ended. (But they converted from VVs to Spit XIVs later in '44, so many of the later pilots would have been on the Spits.......D.).
Even so, the plain fact was that ten VV crews were "transfused" into 8 Sqdn, which is almost a whole squadron, so what we had was pretty well a RAF Squadron with an Indian component. For this two of the RAF units were now three trained crews short, the others two short each.
Our location at the time we arrived is stated as "Phaphamau" . I thought I knew India, but had to go to Google for this. It's near Allahabad, half way to Delhi, at least 400 miles away! But 8 Sqn had spent some time there before we came on the scene; we did not meet them until later in Chaara; it seems that for some reason we were "put on the books" of the earlier place.
Now is as good a time as any to broach the subject which has been the Elephant in the Room so far: How did we and our new Indian squadron colleagues get on together ? Now I must think hard, and choose my words carefully, so as (on the one hand) not to give offence and (on the other) to tell as honest an account as my memory allows.
First: were our relations cordial? Answer: No.............Were they hostile? Answer: No........ I would say that we were in a state of mutual voluntary apartheit, eyeing each other warily, like two strange dogs meeting. There was no suggestion that IAF squadrons in general were in any way less efficient than their RAF counterparts. There were excellent IAF Hurricane squadrons; one close nearby, commanded by the redoubtable S/Ldr Arjan Singh, who would go on to become the CinC of the IAF after Independence. (There was, I am sorry to say, an unjustified and unpardonable slur heard from time to time: "The Indian Air Farce ", from people who did not know what they were talking about).
It should be remembered that the first Indian officer in the (British) Indian Army was commissioned in only relatively recent times, and in the R.I.N. even more recently. In both cases the introduction was small-scale and progressive. (A number of Indian officers served with distinction in the wartime RAF, and in the other Services in Europe, of course). But from the outset the Indian Air Force seems to have been conceived as an independent, wholly Indian manned body. It is quite understandable that there would be resentment when the RAF "took over" a Unit, an impression confirmed when S/Ldr Prasad was so soon replaced by S/Ldr Sutherland.
Even on an RAF squadron, there is a slight gulf between the two Flights; this was obviously intensified in a "mixed" squadron. There were the obvious cultural differences: separate Messes to accomdate the different diets, and although I think the anterooms of both Officers' and Sergeants' Messes were shared, there wasn't much cross-socialisation in them. In fact, I do not know of any other such squadron, and it is difficult to see what was the purpose of creating this one. On their part the Indian attitude to us, quite understandbly, can best be summed up in a phrase culled from another Thread (in an entirely different context): "They needed us - but they didn't really want us". The day of the Sahib was nearly over.
Do not get too hot under the collar about this if you hold strong views - I have good support from the other side - as will next appear. Wait a bit.
Goodnight all,
Danny42C
Goodness gracious me !
I had to abandon my DIY bed, but of course stripped off the webbing and put it in my bedroll, so that I could easily rebuild it at the other end. All our previous trips to and fro the "sharp end" had been self-flown, so this one was a bit of an eye-opener.
A bumpy truck ride took us to the railhead at Silchar (the end of the line into our corner of Assam). Then it was a train to some God-forsaken hole in the middle of the Sunderbans (the name "Narayanganj" seems familiar). There we embarked in a stern-wheel paddle steamer (quite a comfortable cabin for the night). This threaded its way through innumerable islands and waterways (I could see where the "dug-out canoe" yarn, told us at Worli, might have come from). Disembarked somewhere in the morning, back on a train to Calcutta - Howrah station again!
This time we did not bed down there for the night! A good dinner, bed and breakfast in the "Grand", and back on the train for Chaara (I have absolutely no idea where that was), except that it was somewhere in Orissa. On a standard strip-cum-basha camp (indistinguishable from fifty others in the district) was the brand new No. 8 Squadron of the Indian (for a brief period the Royal Indian) Air Force. Or at least the outline of a Squadron.
I think it was a political thing. Independence was in the air, and we wanted to hand over a "going concern", with all three Services up and running after the war. There had been a Royal Indian Navy for years, and an Indian Army from the days of the Mutiny. We had an Indian C.O. (Sqn.Ldr. N. Prasad). He struck me as a very reserved, scholarly, intellectual type, far better suited as a Staff officer than in the rough-and-tumble of Squadron life (he did, IIRC, reach air rank in the postwar IAF).
He was replaced some time in February '44 by Sqn.Ldr. Ira K. Sutherland, a tough New Zealander with a hard reputation as a martinet. The Indian "A" Flight Commander, Flt.Lt. "Pop" Chopra, was the exact opposite of S/Ldr Prasad. A mustachioed, cheerful extrovert, he was the life and soul of the party and very popular with everyone. The British "B" Flight Commander was Flt.Lt. "Bill" Boyd Berry (no hyphen), an excellent Flight leader and well liked. His crews were a mixture of British and all the Dominions, all of them from one or other of the four original ex-Blenheim squadrons.
I can only recall two of the Indian pilots, (F/Os Dhillon and Chakravarthy), and there were two or three Sikhs. They were all good chaps, but most had come straight from the OTU in Peshawar. How much bombing practice they had had there, I don't know, but it can have been nothing like the four months' intensive work we'd been able to put in on the Damodar range early in the year. The Indian ground crews were very inexperienced, and needed close supervision by RAF NCOs and airmen trawled, like us, from the squadrons.
This Indian nucleus had had their aircraft for some weeks before we arrived, but they had done little with them. Certainly they had done no bombing (AFAIK, there wasn't even a range). Much more to the point, they hadn't swung any compasses, or belted-up a single round of ammunition for their guns.
(Since first writing this, I find that you can Google: "Officers and Flight Crew List - 8 Squadron IAF (1939-47)" and go straight to a most useful Nominal Roll in BHARAT RAKSHAK. It seems that on 26 Nov '43, 20 RAF aircrew joined 8 Sqdn - many names familiar to me, my own included!, and a further 39 before hostilities ended. (But they converted from VVs to Spit XIVs later in '44, so many of the later pilots would have been on the Spits.......D.).
Even so, the plain fact was that ten VV crews were "transfused" into 8 Sqdn, which is almost a whole squadron, so what we had was pretty well a RAF Squadron with an Indian component. For this two of the RAF units were now three trained crews short, the others two short each.
Our location at the time we arrived is stated as "Phaphamau" . I thought I knew India, but had to go to Google for this. It's near Allahabad, half way to Delhi, at least 400 miles away! But 8 Sqn had spent some time there before we came on the scene; we did not meet them until later in Chaara; it seems that for some reason we were "put on the books" of the earlier place.
Now is as good a time as any to broach the subject which has been the Elephant in the Room so far: How did we and our new Indian squadron colleagues get on together ? Now I must think hard, and choose my words carefully, so as (on the one hand) not to give offence and (on the other) to tell as honest an account as my memory allows.
First: were our relations cordial? Answer: No.............Were they hostile? Answer: No........ I would say that we were in a state of mutual voluntary apartheit, eyeing each other warily, like two strange dogs meeting. There was no suggestion that IAF squadrons in general were in any way less efficient than their RAF counterparts. There were excellent IAF Hurricane squadrons; one close nearby, commanded by the redoubtable S/Ldr Arjan Singh, who would go on to become the CinC of the IAF after Independence. (There was, I am sorry to say, an unjustified and unpardonable slur heard from time to time: "The Indian Air Farce ", from people who did not know what they were talking about).
It should be remembered that the first Indian officer in the (British) Indian Army was commissioned in only relatively recent times, and in the R.I.N. even more recently. In both cases the introduction was small-scale and progressive. (A number of Indian officers served with distinction in the wartime RAF, and in the other Services in Europe, of course). But from the outset the Indian Air Force seems to have been conceived as an independent, wholly Indian manned body. It is quite understandable that there would be resentment when the RAF "took over" a Unit, an impression confirmed when S/Ldr Prasad was so soon replaced by S/Ldr Sutherland.
Even on an RAF squadron, there is a slight gulf between the two Flights; this was obviously intensified in a "mixed" squadron. There were the obvious cultural differences: separate Messes to accomdate the different diets, and although I think the anterooms of both Officers' and Sergeants' Messes were shared, there wasn't much cross-socialisation in them. In fact, I do not know of any other such squadron, and it is difficult to see what was the purpose of creating this one. On their part the Indian attitude to us, quite understandbly, can best be summed up in a phrase culled from another Thread (in an entirely different context): "They needed us - but they didn't really want us". The day of the Sahib was nearly over.
Do not get too hot under the collar about this if you hold strong views - I have good support from the other side - as will next appear. Wait a bit.
Goodnight all,
Danny42C
Goodness gracious me !
Last edited by Danny42C; 31st Jul 2012 at 02:46. Reason: Add Material.
Guest
Posts: n/a
RAF/IAF Relations
Taphappy,
Please excuse my jumping-in, but this is a close follow-on to my last Post, and things have gone quiet for a while....D.
Bharat-Rakshak records a very full and interesting: "Memories of No. 8 Squadron, IAF" by a S/Ldr T.J. Thomas IAF (Retd.). He was then a Cpl. (electrician) on the Squadron, and I cannot do better than quote from his memoir (submitted to B-S in 1981 by his son, W/Cdr. Joseph Thomas, IAF).
"The atmosphere in the Squadron was not all that good. There was intense anti-British feeling. The period was 1943-44. The turmoil in Indian politics kept this hatred alive. By this time a New Zealander (name I don't remember) took over command of the Squadron and we had as adjutant a Bengali Flying Officer. They were at loggerheads, we knew. Though no love was lost between the RAF and IAF elements, when it came to a question of keeping the aircraft flying, both elements put in their best"..........
(I would say that that is a very fair summary of things: I would not alter a word of it......D).
(Do not be confused by the name; "Thomas", though an English surname, almost certainly denotes a member of the Anglo-Indian community - just as there are many "deSousa's", "DaCosta's" and other Portugese names in Goa and the rest of India).
It was clear that at that time the IAF simply did not have the trained aircrew (and groundcrew) needed to form two separate Vengeance squadrons. They had been able to form one (7 Sqn), which AFAIK, had no RAF component; but even that needed time to "work up", and they did not get into action with the Vengeance until moving to Uderbund (near Khumbirgram) until 28.3.44., being taken off operations to Ranchi at the beginning of June '44, on the onset of the Monsoon.
So they were in action for roughly two months only (they converted to Hurricanes in October '44), whereas 8 Sqn managed six months in the Arakan, (assuming that they would stop at the same time as 7, as it was a Command decision to end all Vengeance operations at the end of the season). (I am indebted to Bharat-Rakshak for the 7 Sqn dates).
I had some difficulty in "fixing" the date when 8 Sqdn pulled out of the Arakan to move back about 2,000 miles to Samungli (near Quetta, in Baluchistan, right on the Afghan border), but again B-R came to the rescue in a roundabout way. S/Ldr Thomas (whom we have just met) relates that an RAF crew crashed and were killed on arrival at the new base (Samungli). The B-R "Officers and Flight Crew" list shows a RAF pilot and wop/ag killed on 6.8.44. It is the only "double" casualty during the summer, so there's my date. Why didn't I know about that? For reason I can't now remember, I was on the rail party to Quetta, and that trip took sixteen days (not ten, as S/Ldr. Thomas recalls), so our chaps were dead and buried long before I got there. The names ? B-R has them, but I can't put faces to them now.
But we've only just got to Chaara, as I write. You must remember that our Flight there was composed of people from all the four RAF Sqdns; they weren't all our "old pals". Apart from Stew, my gunner, there was George Davies and Bud Yeates (and their gunners); there was no one else of our "old brigade". By now, almost all the old RAF SNCO aircrew had been commissioned. There were no SNCO Pilots on "B" (RAF) Flight of 8 Sqn, although there were still some Navs and Wop/Ags.
But we had been posted in to "get this show on the road"; the first job would be to compass-swing all the aircraft, and belt-up the ammo for their guns, before we could even think of moving forward. I imagine compass swinging is a thing of the past with today's sophisticated Heading Instruments, so I shall give an account of how it was.
An aircrew had to do the job (as only a qualified pilot is allowed to move an aircraft under its own power). The crewman armed himself with a "landing compass" - a hand held bearing compass - and the aircraft was taxied to a Compass Swinging Platform on a far corner of the airfield well away from stray magnetic influences.
There a large basic compass rose was marked out on a wide circle of tarmac. The pilot positioned his aircraft in the centre of this; his crewman hopped out with the compass and took up position to walk round ten paces behind the tail. The pilot worked the aircraft round the cardinal points one by one (he didn't need to be too precise). His mate walked round behind, and took bearings on the centre line of the aircraft each time his pilot stopped.
There are adjustment magnets built in under the cockpit compass. On each point therefore, the crewman climbed up to the cockpit and told his pilot the heading he'd just read. The pilot compared this with his (much less acccurate) compass, Out with a screwdriver, and the rule was: take out all the error on the cockpit compass on North and East, then half the remaining error on South and West. Then go round all the points again on a check swing, record the remaining error on each point on a little adjustment card which is dated and kept with the cockpit compass. Sounds simple.
But turning an aircraft on a point needs a lot of power and one-wheel braking. The crewman, choking in gales of hot dust, had to go back on each point and climb up to report the reading. With the best will in the world, the pilot couldn't keep the aircraft on centre for long, and would have to taxi in a circle to position his aircraft again.
The job was not popular, and so having to do someone else's backlog of work caused a lot of growling. But this paled into insignificance compared with the ammo. problem. You might suppose that machine-gun ammunition would come in belts ready for use. So it does, I suppose, for ground use when it is all one kind. But we had three "flavours" - ball, incendiary and tracer - and the "mix" was up to the user.
Our chosen sequence was ball-incendiary-ball-incendiary-tracer. This recipe had to be made up by hand - our hands - from single rounds. To complicate matters still further, we had two different calibres, .300 (US) rounds for the front guns and .303 (British) for the rear.
The stated reason for this was that the US .300 guns had been found so unreliable in service that they had to be replaced by UK .303s for our rear defence, where there was at least a possibility that they might have to be used. There was little chance of needing the front ones. Air combat in a VV was out of the question. Strafing was a possibility, I suppose, but the business of a dive bomber was to bomb and get away. The Hurricane and the Beaufighter were far better for ground attack work, in any case.
As to the reliability, it may not have been all the gun's fault. I suspect a lot of the .300 ammo would be WW1 stock; there would be a lot of duds in it; we could not cock the guns from the cockpit; so a dud round meant a stopped gun. In war films we've all seen cotton ammo belts jerking their way through the guns. There's no room for yards of empty belt in a wing gun bay.
Spring steel clips are the answer; when the guns are fired these go out with the spent cases. Each clip anchors one round to the next. You have to push the rounds into the clips by hand. It's a tight fit, the spring steel is sharp edged. Bloody fingers and thumbs were the order of the day (and we loaded 400 rounds per gun). Next you had to run the assembled belts through an aligning machine to ensure accuracy. One of our Indian (supposed) armourers put a .300 (fractionally longer than a .303) round into a .303 belt and forced it through the machine. (He bent the cartridge - luckily it didn't go off in his face!).
Curiously, a few months ago I saw on TV a clip of some RFC pilots in WW1. They sat in a companionable ring (like a sewing bee!), loading their Lewis drums with ammo. Nothing changes !
There was no ammo belted up, so all ranks had to turn to and get on with the job ("the gentlemen must draw (haul) with the mariners", said Drake). We were only there from 18th November '43 (although Bharat Rakshak shows us as on charge from the 26th) until we moved up to Double Moorings on 12th December. We went into action on the 17th and then followed an intense three months of operations until 24th February '44.
Then a forced landing after an engine failure put me "hors de combat" for a couple of months, and when I came back, all Vengeance units had stopped operating for the monsoon and would never start again. The game was up for them. They really operated for only one full ('43/'44) dry season, and had done a bit in '42/'43, but that was all they ever did in ACSEA (the RAAF did some work with them in New Guinea, but IK).
But for the moment we were still at Chaara. I think I only flew one (admin) flight to Ranchi and return. Don't know what for. The rest of the time we seem to have spent on compass swinging and the miserable belting up chore. That task was made all the more exasperating as we knew the .300 guns were practically useless (and in fact were never used), but it doesn't make any sense to go into action with your guns empty. Eventually we were as ready for action as we would ever be.
Bit of a mouthful this time - hope Mr Moderator will not object.
Goodnight, all,
Danny42C
Worse things happen at sea!
Please excuse my jumping-in, but this is a close follow-on to my last Post, and things have gone quiet for a while....D.
Bharat-Rakshak records a very full and interesting: "Memories of No. 8 Squadron, IAF" by a S/Ldr T.J. Thomas IAF (Retd.). He was then a Cpl. (electrician) on the Squadron, and I cannot do better than quote from his memoir (submitted to B-S in 1981 by his son, W/Cdr. Joseph Thomas, IAF).
"The atmosphere in the Squadron was not all that good. There was intense anti-British feeling. The period was 1943-44. The turmoil in Indian politics kept this hatred alive. By this time a New Zealander (name I don't remember) took over command of the Squadron and we had as adjutant a Bengali Flying Officer. They were at loggerheads, we knew. Though no love was lost between the RAF and IAF elements, when it came to a question of keeping the aircraft flying, both elements put in their best"..........
(I would say that that is a very fair summary of things: I would not alter a word of it......D).
(Do not be confused by the name; "Thomas", though an English surname, almost certainly denotes a member of the Anglo-Indian community - just as there are many "deSousa's", "DaCosta's" and other Portugese names in Goa and the rest of India).
It was clear that at that time the IAF simply did not have the trained aircrew (and groundcrew) needed to form two separate Vengeance squadrons. They had been able to form one (7 Sqn), which AFAIK, had no RAF component; but even that needed time to "work up", and they did not get into action with the Vengeance until moving to Uderbund (near Khumbirgram) until 28.3.44., being taken off operations to Ranchi at the beginning of June '44, on the onset of the Monsoon.
So they were in action for roughly two months only (they converted to Hurricanes in October '44), whereas 8 Sqn managed six months in the Arakan, (assuming that they would stop at the same time as 7, as it was a Command decision to end all Vengeance operations at the end of the season). (I am indebted to Bharat-Rakshak for the 7 Sqn dates).
I had some difficulty in "fixing" the date when 8 Sqdn pulled out of the Arakan to move back about 2,000 miles to Samungli (near Quetta, in Baluchistan, right on the Afghan border), but again B-R came to the rescue in a roundabout way. S/Ldr Thomas (whom we have just met) relates that an RAF crew crashed and were killed on arrival at the new base (Samungli). The B-R "Officers and Flight Crew" list shows a RAF pilot and wop/ag killed on 6.8.44. It is the only "double" casualty during the summer, so there's my date. Why didn't I know about that? For reason I can't now remember, I was on the rail party to Quetta, and that trip took sixteen days (not ten, as S/Ldr. Thomas recalls), so our chaps were dead and buried long before I got there. The names ? B-R has them, but I can't put faces to them now.
But we've only just got to Chaara, as I write. You must remember that our Flight there was composed of people from all the four RAF Sqdns; they weren't all our "old pals". Apart from Stew, my gunner, there was George Davies and Bud Yeates (and their gunners); there was no one else of our "old brigade". By now, almost all the old RAF SNCO aircrew had been commissioned. There were no SNCO Pilots on "B" (RAF) Flight of 8 Sqn, although there were still some Navs and Wop/Ags.
But we had been posted in to "get this show on the road"; the first job would be to compass-swing all the aircraft, and belt-up the ammo for their guns, before we could even think of moving forward. I imagine compass swinging is a thing of the past with today's sophisticated Heading Instruments, so I shall give an account of how it was.
An aircrew had to do the job (as only a qualified pilot is allowed to move an aircraft under its own power). The crewman armed himself with a "landing compass" - a hand held bearing compass - and the aircraft was taxied to a Compass Swinging Platform on a far corner of the airfield well away from stray magnetic influences.
There a large basic compass rose was marked out on a wide circle of tarmac. The pilot positioned his aircraft in the centre of this; his crewman hopped out with the compass and took up position to walk round ten paces behind the tail. The pilot worked the aircraft round the cardinal points one by one (he didn't need to be too precise). His mate walked round behind, and took bearings on the centre line of the aircraft each time his pilot stopped.
There are adjustment magnets built in under the cockpit compass. On each point therefore, the crewman climbed up to the cockpit and told his pilot the heading he'd just read. The pilot compared this with his (much less acccurate) compass, Out with a screwdriver, and the rule was: take out all the error on the cockpit compass on North and East, then half the remaining error on South and West. Then go round all the points again on a check swing, record the remaining error on each point on a little adjustment card which is dated and kept with the cockpit compass. Sounds simple.
But turning an aircraft on a point needs a lot of power and one-wheel braking. The crewman, choking in gales of hot dust, had to go back on each point and climb up to report the reading. With the best will in the world, the pilot couldn't keep the aircraft on centre for long, and would have to taxi in a circle to position his aircraft again.
The job was not popular, and so having to do someone else's backlog of work caused a lot of growling. But this paled into insignificance compared with the ammo. problem. You might suppose that machine-gun ammunition would come in belts ready for use. So it does, I suppose, for ground use when it is all one kind. But we had three "flavours" - ball, incendiary and tracer - and the "mix" was up to the user.
Our chosen sequence was ball-incendiary-ball-incendiary-tracer. This recipe had to be made up by hand - our hands - from single rounds. To complicate matters still further, we had two different calibres, .300 (US) rounds for the front guns and .303 (British) for the rear.
The stated reason for this was that the US .300 guns had been found so unreliable in service that they had to be replaced by UK .303s for our rear defence, where there was at least a possibility that they might have to be used. There was little chance of needing the front ones. Air combat in a VV was out of the question. Strafing was a possibility, I suppose, but the business of a dive bomber was to bomb and get away. The Hurricane and the Beaufighter were far better for ground attack work, in any case.
As to the reliability, it may not have been all the gun's fault. I suspect a lot of the .300 ammo would be WW1 stock; there would be a lot of duds in it; we could not cock the guns from the cockpit; so a dud round meant a stopped gun. In war films we've all seen cotton ammo belts jerking their way through the guns. There's no room for yards of empty belt in a wing gun bay.
Spring steel clips are the answer; when the guns are fired these go out with the spent cases. Each clip anchors one round to the next. You have to push the rounds into the clips by hand. It's a tight fit, the spring steel is sharp edged. Bloody fingers and thumbs were the order of the day (and we loaded 400 rounds per gun). Next you had to run the assembled belts through an aligning machine to ensure accuracy. One of our Indian (supposed) armourers put a .300 (fractionally longer than a .303) round into a .303 belt and forced it through the machine. (He bent the cartridge - luckily it didn't go off in his face!).
Curiously, a few months ago I saw on TV a clip of some RFC pilots in WW1. They sat in a companionable ring (like a sewing bee!), loading their Lewis drums with ammo. Nothing changes !
There was no ammo belted up, so all ranks had to turn to and get on with the job ("the gentlemen must draw (haul) with the mariners", said Drake). We were only there from 18th November '43 (although Bharat Rakshak shows us as on charge from the 26th) until we moved up to Double Moorings on 12th December. We went into action on the 17th and then followed an intense three months of operations until 24th February '44.
Then a forced landing after an engine failure put me "hors de combat" for a couple of months, and when I came back, all Vengeance units had stopped operating for the monsoon and would never start again. The game was up for them. They really operated for only one full ('43/'44) dry season, and had done a bit in '42/'43, but that was all they ever did in ACSEA (the RAAF did some work with them in New Guinea, but IK).
But for the moment we were still at Chaara. I think I only flew one (admin) flight to Ranchi and return. Don't know what for. The rest of the time we seem to have spent on compass swinging and the miserable belting up chore. That task was made all the more exasperating as we knew the .300 guns were practically useless (and in fact were never used), but it doesn't make any sense to go into action with your guns empty. Eventually we were as ready for action as we would ever be.
Bit of a mouthful this time - hope Mr Moderator will not object.
Goodnight, all,
Danny42C
Worse things happen at sea!
Last edited by Danny42C; 13th Jul 2012 at 00:26. Reason: Correct Error.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wide Brown Land
Age: 39
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I imagine compass swinging is a thing of the past with today's sophisticated Heading Instruments,
Can't imagine how you'd compass swing a 747, but even those behemouths have standby magnetic compasses so it'd need to be done somehow...
Adam
I imagine compass swinging is a thing of the past with today's sophisticated Heading Instruments,
How telling, and somewhat surprising that the relationships in a "mixed" IAF Squadron could be so edgy. Perhaps there was a premonition not only of coming independence, but of the bloody path that would be trodden in the getting there. It contrasts starkly with the international nature of Bomber Command's Squadrons in WWII so vividly illustrated recently by the contingents of veterans from the British Commonwealth and elsewhere, in Green Park for the BC Memorial Unveiling. A flavour of what that could entail may be gained from Michael Bentine's recollection of a wild party at a Polish squadron culminating with him (then an RAF Intelligence Officer, and English son of a Peruvian father) dancing the Mazurka with the Poles down their main runway. Clearly, or at least one has to presume, there was no flying that night!
The humdrum tasks of military life could not be better illustrated than by your description of your "knitting circle" as you and your colleagues variously knitted, purled, and slipped your way through the ball, incendiary, and tracer variants of your yarn. No doubt as in any knitting circle the conversation centred on anything but the job in hand!
It comes as rather a shock that those seemingly endless "belts" of ammo that we see the armourers feeding into the wings and turrets of wartime aircraft had to be so laboriously constructed beforehand. That is yet something else new for me, and a clear illustration of the unique value of this thread and of the education that it imparts.
As others have said, compass swinging is a rather more familiar scene, and little changed over the years. The "Compass Base" on any airfield is always a "wild and lonely place, yea ken" for it has by definition to be as little affected by external influences to the Earth's Magnetic Field as possible. A pleasant enough duty on a bright and sunny day, quite the opposite in inclement weather I fear, M'Lud.
The humdrum tasks of military life could not be better illustrated than by your description of your "knitting circle" as you and your colleagues variously knitted, purled, and slipped your way through the ball, incendiary, and tracer variants of your yarn. No doubt as in any knitting circle the conversation centred on anything but the job in hand!
It comes as rather a shock that those seemingly endless "belts" of ammo that we see the armourers feeding into the wings and turrets of wartime aircraft had to be so laboriously constructed beforehand. That is yet something else new for me, and a clear illustration of the unique value of this thread and of the education that it imparts.
As others have said, compass swinging is a rather more familiar scene, and little changed over the years. The "Compass Base" on any airfield is always a "wild and lonely place, yea ken" for it has by definition to be as little affected by external influences to the Earth's Magnetic Field as possible. A pleasant enough duty on a bright and sunny day, quite the opposite in inclement weather I fear, M'Lud.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Kookabat,
It's heart-warming for an old man to hear that things he knew so well seventy years ago are still being done in exactly the same way today. But yes, a 747 would be a bit of a handful (how about an Airbus 380?)
Suggestions: a) How about a big turntable - like the ones the old steam locos were turned round on (it would have to be "de-gaussed", of course, like the shipping in WW2); b) jacking the thing up and mounting each wheel on a sort of castor or sideways-facing roller skate (plus an elephant to push it - or the turntable -) round ? Pom Pax (#2721) knows the market, may be able to find you one.
Danny
**********
Fareastdriver,
Yes, wasn't there a case donkey's years ago when a civil crew put "George" in; then all went to sleep over the Sahara; the Nav had set the variation on the compass master unit wrong way round; they awoke about a thousand miles off track; it was a bit hairy but they managed to get it down somewhere all right, as I remember, but had some explaining to do to the passengers.
Danny.
**********
Chugalug,
Yes, it wan't a comfortable situation to be living in, but we got the job done all the same, and had a few laughs on the way. But the Partition massacres were no joke - unfortunately, when they got rid of the Hated Colonial Oppressor, Pax Britannica went with him.
I don't think B.C. crews at home had to hand fill their belts; I suppose Command would decide the sequence and the factory or M.U. would do the job wholesale (it would be all the same for all the guns) on some sort of machine, so the stuff would come ready for the AG to load into his turret. Don't really know.
Compass Swinging Platforms found a subsidiary use as Station roller-skating rinks in the years when that was the current craze.
Danny.
It's heart-warming for an old man to hear that things he knew so well seventy years ago are still being done in exactly the same way today. But yes, a 747 would be a bit of a handful (how about an Airbus 380?)
Suggestions: a) How about a big turntable - like the ones the old steam locos were turned round on (it would have to be "de-gaussed", of course, like the shipping in WW2); b) jacking the thing up and mounting each wheel on a sort of castor or sideways-facing roller skate (plus an elephant to push it - or the turntable -) round ? Pom Pax (#2721) knows the market, may be able to find you one.
Danny
**********
Fareastdriver,
Yes, wasn't there a case donkey's years ago when a civil crew put "George" in; then all went to sleep over the Sahara; the Nav had set the variation on the compass master unit wrong way round; they awoke about a thousand miles off track; it was a bit hairy but they managed to get it down somewhere all right, as I remember, but had some explaining to do to the passengers.
Danny.
**********
Chugalug,
Yes, it wan't a comfortable situation to be living in, but we got the job done all the same, and had a few laughs on the way. But the Partition massacres were no joke - unfortunately, when they got rid of the Hated Colonial Oppressor, Pax Britannica went with him.
I don't think B.C. crews at home had to hand fill their belts; I suppose Command would decide the sequence and the factory or M.U. would do the job wholesale (it would be all the same for all the guns) on some sort of machine, so the stuff would come ready for the AG to load into his turret. Don't really know.
Compass Swinging Platforms found a subsidiary use as Station roller-skating rinks in the years when that was the current craze.
Danny.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hertfordshire
Age: 70
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Danny, were you and your Indian colleagues aware of the 'Indian National Army'?
Indian National Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Indian National Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
How telling, and somewhat surprising that the relationships in a "mixed" IAF Squadron could be so edgy
I wondered too about the prospects future partition may have had in the minds of the 8 Squadron IAF people with their very diverse backgrounds, not least Angllo Indians such as Thomas who must have had serious doubts about what lay ahead - and correctly so.
Jack
I wondered too about the prospects future partition may have had in the minds of the 8 Squadron IAF people with their very diverse backgrounds, not least Angllo Indians such as Thomas who must have had serious doubts about what lay ahead - and correctly so.
Jack
Guest
Posts: n/a
Indian National Army.
Hipper,
You mean Subhas Chandra Bose and his followers; when it all went wrong they were desperate to surrender to a British army unit rather than an Indian, well knowing what fate would await them there (so I have been told). Don't think any IAF prisoners were suborned.
Will have a look at the link - thanks!
Danny.
You mean Subhas Chandra Bose and his followers; when it all went wrong they were desperate to surrender to a British army unit rather than an Indian, well knowing what fate would await them there (so I have been told). Don't think any IAF prisoners were suborned.
Will have a look at the link - thanks!
Danny.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Jack
At that stage ('44), I don't think Partition had even been considered as an option; we planned to hand over a united India to a successor Goverment. Planned ? I think it was more of an aspiration: we wished to grant Independence to India as Augustine prayed for chastity - "but not yet".
Churchill said something to the effect that "he had not become the King's First Minister to preside over the dissolution of the British Empire" (I stand to be corrected). And India was not merely "the brightest jewel in the Crown", it was pretty well the whole thing. Of course, the Indian officers of all Services could sense what was going on. In fact, they had only to wait three years, but that was by no means clear to anybody then.
It was decision time for the Anglo-Indian community; they had always been in "no man's land", now they must choose which way to jump. My impression (for what it is worth) is that their hearts said "Britain", but their heads had to admit "India", where they already had a strong base in the railways, posts and telegraphs. Many Anglo-Indians rose to high rank in the IAF.
It is almost seventy years since I left India; I do not know how things are now,
Danny
At that stage ('44), I don't think Partition had even been considered as an option; we planned to hand over a united India to a successor Goverment. Planned ? I think it was more of an aspiration: we wished to grant Independence to India as Augustine prayed for chastity - "but not yet".
Churchill said something to the effect that "he had not become the King's First Minister to preside over the dissolution of the British Empire" (I stand to be corrected). And India was not merely "the brightest jewel in the Crown", it was pretty well the whole thing. Of course, the Indian officers of all Services could sense what was going on. In fact, they had only to wait three years, but that was by no means clear to anybody then.
It was decision time for the Anglo-Indian community; they had always been in "no man's land", now they must choose which way to jump. My impression (for what it is worth) is that their hearts said "Britain", but their heads had to admit "India", where they already had a strong base in the railways, posts and telegraphs. Many Anglo-Indians rose to high rank in the IAF.
It is almost seventy years since I left India; I do not know how things are now,
Danny
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: N Yorkshire, UK
Age: 76
Posts: 484
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On the subject of India
On the subject of India
Danny & others, please excuse the intrusion
This thread is currently running on Pprune and may be of interest
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/4903...ish-india.html.
PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)
Danny & others, please excuse the intrusion
This thread is currently running on Pprune and may be of interest
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/4903...ish-india.html.
PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)
Last edited by pzu; 13th Jul 2012 at 00:50.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Indo-English
pzu,
No intrusion at all, Sir ! All are welcome in our Virtual Crewroom, so long as they bring something relevant to the feast - or seek advice from the Old Man in the Corner - or put him right when he's plain wrong !
Yes, I love what we used to call (in no mocking way) "Babu" English, with its wonderfully old-fashioned, P.G. Wodehouse-style expressions.
And they were taught to speak clear, grammatical English as you say, often by the good nuns or the Christian Brothers or others of that ilk (see, I'm doing it now). This is more than today's educational system here seems able to do, which in turn accounts for the preponderance of newsreaders of sub-continental descent who grace our TV screens.
And given a choice of a call-centre voice from the Gorbals or Bangalore, I know whom I'd choose ! (Yes, I know the Glaswegians can understand one another, but that doesn't help the rest of us - particularly those of us who live, like you and I, in God's own county).
I've taped Radio 4, will now settle down to enjoy.
What ho, chaps!
Danny42C
No intrusion at all, Sir ! All are welcome in our Virtual Crewroom, so long as they bring something relevant to the feast - or seek advice from the Old Man in the Corner - or put him right when he's plain wrong !
Yes, I love what we used to call (in no mocking way) "Babu" English, with its wonderfully old-fashioned, P.G. Wodehouse-style expressions.
And they were taught to speak clear, grammatical English as you say, often by the good nuns or the Christian Brothers or others of that ilk (see, I'm doing it now). This is more than today's educational system here seems able to do, which in turn accounts for the preponderance of newsreaders of sub-continental descent who grace our TV screens.
And given a choice of a call-centre voice from the Gorbals or Bangalore, I know whom I'd choose ! (Yes, I know the Glaswegians can understand one another, but that doesn't help the rest of us - particularly those of us who live, like you and I, in God's own county).
I've taped Radio 4, will now settle down to enjoy.
What ho, chaps!
Danny42C
Compass swings....
Back in 1976, which is slightly longer from today than it was from Danny's back then, I did God-knows how many compass swings on Hunters at RAF Brawdy whilst holding 'twixt TWU and OCU.
Same basic technique, but the heading accuracy for the 4-point swing had to be within a couple of degress. At least we had a turntable of sorts; you taxyed so that the 'inside' wheel was on the turntable, then turned with locked inner wheel. Take the readings from the groundcrew mate, fill in the figures in the book, then adjust the G4F box accordingly. Then do the check swing; if all OK, taxy back and write the jet up. If not, then do it all again....
Now there was only one minor snagette. You had to do the whole thing with the hood closed so that the E2B was correct. Summer of '76 with the hood closed and no cooling meant that one became a sopping rag after such an event, particularly in the T7 with its big hood.
One Friday afternoon, I finally managed to get a T7 into limits and taxyed back to the line. Then a long walk across the aerodrome back to my flight office, only to find that everyone else had locked up and gone home. So another long trudge to the guardroom to draw the keys, before I could finally dump my bone dome, turning trousers and leg stranglers, grab my SD cap and walk back to the OM.... Where the first Happy Hour beer barely touched the sides.
Come Monday morning, the Flt Cdr told me "BEagle, OC *** sqn was driving home and saw you on the main drag looking rather dishevelled in flying kit without your hat on...".
"Boss, I'd just spent an hour cooking in a T-bird, walked miles and found you'd all buggered off, then walked to the guardroom and back to get the sodding key. Please give OC *** sqn my apology and tell him to stick it up his ar*e!"
"Hmm, I'll probably rephrase that....."
(*** could perhaps be 234, but I won't say.....).
Same basic technique, but the heading accuracy for the 4-point swing had to be within a couple of degress. At least we had a turntable of sorts; you taxyed so that the 'inside' wheel was on the turntable, then turned with locked inner wheel. Take the readings from the groundcrew mate, fill in the figures in the book, then adjust the G4F box accordingly. Then do the check swing; if all OK, taxy back and write the jet up. If not, then do it all again....
Now there was only one minor snagette. You had to do the whole thing with the hood closed so that the E2B was correct. Summer of '76 with the hood closed and no cooling meant that one became a sopping rag after such an event, particularly in the T7 with its big hood.
One Friday afternoon, I finally managed to get a T7 into limits and taxyed back to the line. Then a long walk across the aerodrome back to my flight office, only to find that everyone else had locked up and gone home. So another long trudge to the guardroom to draw the keys, before I could finally dump my bone dome, turning trousers and leg stranglers, grab my SD cap and walk back to the OM.... Where the first Happy Hour beer barely touched the sides.
Come Monday morning, the Flt Cdr told me "BEagle, OC *** sqn was driving home and saw you on the main drag looking rather dishevelled in flying kit without your hat on...".
"Boss, I'd just spent an hour cooking in a T-bird, walked miles and found you'd all buggered off, then walked to the guardroom and back to get the sodding key. Please give OC *** sqn my apology and tell him to stick it up his ar*e!"
"Hmm, I'll probably rephrase that....."
(*** could perhaps be 234, but I won't say.....).
Last edited by BEagle; 13th Jul 2012 at 19:44.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Compass Swings.
BEAgle,
There speaks the voice of experience ! (we can only sympathise). Was the E2b really so important that they had to cook the operator ? IIRC, it only had 5 deg. markings, I had a stick-on thing on the screen of my car in the early '60s which was much the same (and about as accurate!). And if the hood frame was the cause of the bother, didn't it worry the main compass as much as the E2b ? (speaking as one who vaguely recalls the Gyro Fluxgate, but nothing later !)
Our Vengeances got two twirls only, and had to count themselves lucky with that (which may have been a factor in our Flight getting good and lost on our way to war, in circumstances where a cub scout would have had no trouble in finding the way).
Now your small turntable with a locked main wheel on it: that's so obviously the answer, it would have to be big enough to take the whole outside bogey of the big boys (can you lock a single bogey ?). The tug and push-pull dolly would have to be "de-gaussed", but if you can do it with a 20,000 ton liner, a tug should be easy.
(Very Sad Story of WW2: our ship arrives in port and parks. Sighs of relief all round..... we're home and dry now..... switch off de-gaussing cables..... there was a magnetic mine sitting right under the keel !)
Danny42C
There speaks the voice of experience ! (we can only sympathise). Was the E2b really so important that they had to cook the operator ? IIRC, it only had 5 deg. markings, I had a stick-on thing on the screen of my car in the early '60s which was much the same (and about as accurate!). And if the hood frame was the cause of the bother, didn't it worry the main compass as much as the E2b ? (speaking as one who vaguely recalls the Gyro Fluxgate, but nothing later !)
Our Vengeances got two twirls only, and had to count themselves lucky with that (which may have been a factor in our Flight getting good and lost on our way to war, in circumstances where a cub scout would have had no trouble in finding the way).
Now your small turntable with a locked main wheel on it: that's so obviously the answer, it would have to be big enough to take the whole outside bogey of the big boys (can you lock a single bogey ?). The tug and push-pull dolly would have to be "de-gaussed", but if you can do it with a 20,000 ton liner, a tug should be easy.
(Very Sad Story of WW2: our ship arrives in port and parks. Sighs of relief all round..... we're home and dry now..... switch off de-gaussing cables..... there was a magnetic mine sitting right under the keel !)
Danny42C
At that stage ('44), I don't think Partition had even been considered as an option; we planned to hand over a united India to a successor Government.
Many thanks for the very interesting clarification, Danny, particularly in respect of the Anglo Indian perspective - shades of Bhowani Junction.
It had been my understanding that a form of partition had been considered as far back as Lord Curzon's time as Viceroy, and that Jinnah had pressed in the early 1940s for the creation of Pakistan. Fiat lux!
Jack
Many thanks for the very interesting clarification, Danny, particularly in respect of the Anglo Indian perspective - shades of Bhowani Junction.
It had been my understanding that a form of partition had been considered as far back as Lord Curzon's time as Viceroy, and that Jinnah had pressed in the early 1940s for the creation of Pakistan. Fiat lux!
Jack
Guest
Posts: n/a
Partition of India.
Jack
I'm surprised that Partition was on the table as far back as Curzon; that Very Superior Person would surely have reacted to the mere mention of Indian Independence in much the same way as Churchill (was it?) He shrank with horror at the idea of Ghandi ("that half-naked fakir") being received in audience by the Viceroy, instead of being "trampled by elephants" in front of the steps of the Secretariat for his insolence.
Jinnah, of course always demanded Partition, as he had no trust in the good faith of the Congress in an united India (and he was probably right). As I heard it, Mountbatten did his best to talk him round, without success. The UK Government had to accept Partition or delay Independence, and that was then "not an option".
But I am no authority on the recent constitutional history of India, all I know was the street talk of the time. Fiat Lux ? I'd have to be careful. ("What is Truth?", asked Pilate),
Danny
I'm surprised that Partition was on the table as far back as Curzon; that Very Superior Person would surely have reacted to the mere mention of Indian Independence in much the same way as Churchill (was it?) He shrank with horror at the idea of Ghandi ("that half-naked fakir") being received in audience by the Viceroy, instead of being "trampled by elephants" in front of the steps of the Secretariat for his insolence.
Jinnah, of course always demanded Partition, as he had no trust in the good faith of the Congress in an united India (and he was probably right). As I heard it, Mountbatten did his best to talk him round, without success. The UK Government had to accept Partition or delay Independence, and that was then "not an option".
But I am no authority on the recent constitutional history of India, all I know was the street talk of the time. Fiat Lux ? I'd have to be careful. ("What is Truth?", asked Pilate),
Danny
Many thanks, Danny, for your interesting and erudite response.
Having done some homework, I realise that Curzon's ultimately unsuccessful foray into partition related solely to Bengal rather than to overall Indian independence so, whilst I may have been right in principle to refer to a "form of partition", I was clearly wide of the mark on a wider scale. I lives and I learns, and I am very taken with your quotations!
So, no more politics for me - I'll stick with "Though no love was lost between the RAF and IAF elements, when it came to a question of keeping the aircraft flying, both elements put in their best".......... "
Jack
Having done some homework, I realise that Curzon's ultimately unsuccessful foray into partition related solely to Bengal rather than to overall Indian independence so, whilst I may have been right in principle to refer to a "form of partition", I was clearly wide of the mark on a wider scale. I lives and I learns, and I am very taken with your quotations!
So, no more politics for me - I'll stick with "Though no love was lost between the RAF and IAF elements, when it came to a question of keeping the aircraft flying, both elements put in their best".......... "
Jack
Danny,
Sounds like you had fun integrating with your IAF colleagues,in truth the day of the Sahib was on the wane.
Petet.
You learn something every day, I was not aware that there were differing grades of AC2.
Next steo on the wya was a posting round about November or eaely December to Heaton Park in Manchester which was a transit camp for budding PNBs and from where you were supposed to proceed to the next stage of training which for me was to Air Navigation School.
My main memory of Heaton Park was being on parade every morning usually in pouring rain when the names of these selected for drafts to the flying schools in Canada,USA and Southern Africa were read out and quite a number from my intake hit the jackpot.
The powers that be did not seem to know what to do with us and so far as I recall there did not seem to be any laid down programme but we were involved in such activities as bayonet practice,grenade throwing and rifle shooting at the butts. Quite what these activities had to do with aircrew training one can only guess but it was entertaining.
The accommodation at the Park was mostly in Nissan huts and given the prevailing climate, most of the times the walls were running with condensation. In fact one of the areas in the camp was nicknamed "consumption valley".
However there was a silver lining since the fleshpots of Manchester were only a short journey away and the NAAFI club there served up some good nosh.
After a few weeks along with 20 odd others my name was called out at the morning parade. Great!! we thought, at last we are off to foreign climes only for our hopes to be dashed when we were told that we were being sent on detachment to RAF Strubby in Lincolnshire, the home of 619 Squadron for a period of 3 months.
After settling in we were all allocated to various sections, some to SHQ,those who could drive to the MT section,some to the armoury and some including me drew the short straw and were sent to work at the bomb dump. Not the best of places since it was midwinter.
There was an H2s trainer at Strubby where the navigators honed their skills and after a month at the bomb dump I was moved there as a general dogsbody and at last I managed to get near an aircraft as I would assist the radio mechanics when they carried out the daily inspections on the Lancs.
Strubby was a well dispersed station and the living quarters were a long way from the aerodrome so we were all issued with bikes which were also useful in getting to the nearest civilisation which was either Alford or Louth.
After 3 months in March 45 we were posted back to Heaton Park having experienced a little of what the real Air Force was like but no further forward in our training.
Sounds like you had fun integrating with your IAF colleagues,in truth the day of the Sahib was on the wane.
Petet.
You learn something every day, I was not aware that there were differing grades of AC2.
Next steo on the wya was a posting round about November or eaely December to Heaton Park in Manchester which was a transit camp for budding PNBs and from where you were supposed to proceed to the next stage of training which for me was to Air Navigation School.
My main memory of Heaton Park was being on parade every morning usually in pouring rain when the names of these selected for drafts to the flying schools in Canada,USA and Southern Africa were read out and quite a number from my intake hit the jackpot.
The powers that be did not seem to know what to do with us and so far as I recall there did not seem to be any laid down programme but we were involved in such activities as bayonet practice,grenade throwing and rifle shooting at the butts. Quite what these activities had to do with aircrew training one can only guess but it was entertaining.
The accommodation at the Park was mostly in Nissan huts and given the prevailing climate, most of the times the walls were running with condensation. In fact one of the areas in the camp was nicknamed "consumption valley".
However there was a silver lining since the fleshpots of Manchester were only a short journey away and the NAAFI club there served up some good nosh.
After a few weeks along with 20 odd others my name was called out at the morning parade. Great!! we thought, at last we are off to foreign climes only for our hopes to be dashed when we were told that we were being sent on detachment to RAF Strubby in Lincolnshire, the home of 619 Squadron for a period of 3 months.
After settling in we were all allocated to various sections, some to SHQ,those who could drive to the MT section,some to the armoury and some including me drew the short straw and were sent to work at the bomb dump. Not the best of places since it was midwinter.
There was an H2s trainer at Strubby where the navigators honed their skills and after a month at the bomb dump I was moved there as a general dogsbody and at last I managed to get near an aircraft as I would assist the radio mechanics when they carried out the daily inspections on the Lancs.
Strubby was a well dispersed station and the living quarters were a long way from the aerodrome so we were all issued with bikes which were also useful in getting to the nearest civilisation which was either Alford or Louth.
After 3 months in March 45 we were posted back to Heaton Park having experienced a little of what the real Air Force was like but no further forward in our training.