Lean RAF 'Pretty Stretched"
Thread Starter
Lean RAF 'Pretty Stretched"
Last edited by cliver029; 25th Apr 2008 at 08:15. Reason: Speeling Mistook
More bang for your buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: land of the clanger
Age: 82
Posts: 3,512
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I watched that last night and came to the conclusion that he was suggesting, diplomatically, that the RAF was only just able to cope with it's current commitments. Any further escalation and it would fall to pieces.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Transiting the M27
Age: 50
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not just the RAF: the RN, Army and MoD Civil Service at the Centre are completely overstretched. We need a new government with a sympathetic Treasury.
"Oh dear, it must be hell sitting in their offices on those expensive office chairs. I guess there is no comparison to that, not even Afghanistan or Basrah."
Why don't you ask the large number of MOD CS in those places what lifes like there?
Strangely enough it is quite difficult in the centre right now - trying to balance multiple commitments, massive demands for cuts from treasury (try year on year demands for 5% efficiency savings for starters) and trying to keep the front line supported is a challenge.
Why don't you ask the large number of MOD CS in those places what lifes like there?
Strangely enough it is quite difficult in the centre right now - trying to balance multiple commitments, massive demands for cuts from treasury (try year on year demands for 5% efficiency savings for starters) and trying to keep the front line supported is a challenge.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Presently Sitting kind of in the middle of this argument, knowing people well from both sides, I would add that ALL are under pressure.
On the Ops side; there is the constant deployments, threat, workload, family etc issues which are very very real, and affect many people more now than historically. However, in the support areas, particularly the CS who work with the MOD, there are also real and unexpected pressures and tensions.
It's not really fair to compare like for like, as their area, work and assumpions are so different. But, one thing that can be said: Is that all areas are overstreached!
Soldiers leaving is bad, Pilots leaving is bad ANYONE leaving is bad, but a lot of CS Mod emplyees are doing the same, for the same reasons...... "We never signed up to this!" and they are correct, but we are not, this is what we signed up for! (Albeit not for so long without propper support or funding from a IDIOT government).
Bottom line: Blame the MOD CS if you like, but it's like blaming the British Exp Force at Dunkirk........ Go Figure.
Advo
On the Ops side; there is the constant deployments, threat, workload, family etc issues which are very very real, and affect many people more now than historically. However, in the support areas, particularly the CS who work with the MOD, there are also real and unexpected pressures and tensions.
It's not really fair to compare like for like, as their area, work and assumpions are so different. But, one thing that can be said: Is that all areas are overstreached!
Soldiers leaving is bad, Pilots leaving is bad ANYONE leaving is bad, but a lot of CS Mod emplyees are doing the same, for the same reasons...... "We never signed up to this!" and they are correct, but we are not, this is what we signed up for! (Albeit not for so long without propper support or funding from a IDIOT government).
Bottom line: Blame the MOD CS if you like, but it's like blaming the British Exp Force at Dunkirk........ Go Figure.
Advo
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Out East
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Best We Have??
Could we not have selected a better CAS? Sir Glenn Torpy looked ill at ease during the interview, lacked any gravitas (more like a Del Boy sans savvy), mangled the English language and demonstrated a very poor "face" of our proud Service. Undoubtedly a top bloke, but we need someone with balls, ie Sir Richard Dannett.
Sadly, any CAS must "fit in" as far as the government is concerned, as they have the right of veto. So I guess we get the man they say, not necessarily the man we want, or need.
Sadly, any CAS must "fit in" as far as the government is concerned, as they have the right of veto. So I guess we get the man they say, not necessarily the man we want, or need.
Old Ned, how right you are!
It was an abysmal interview - wherever did he learn his English?
And dressed in that stupid prep school pullover as well......
It was an abysmal interview - wherever did he learn his English?
And dressed in that stupid prep school pullover as well......
1.4G - actually I was talking about the pressure on the Centre not the CS. The fact is that despite some peoples near pathological belief that the CS are here to try and f*ck you over, we really are on your side.
The fact is that in the centre right now, a lot of forces and CS personnel are trying to keep the wheels from falling off and keep the show on the road. I know its easy to target the CS - after all, we've all met little jobsworths in stations who can be a pain, but these people can be found in any walk of life, in uniform or in the CS.
Having listened to several 3/4* figures (both uniform and CS) make quite clear the other day that every MOD CS should be in no doubt that their role is to support the front line, I don't think there is a shadow of a doubt where our priorities lie. Perhaps its time to let go of your baseless predjudices and accept that people are trying to help - even if we are untermenschen for not wearing a flying suit.
The fact is that in the centre right now, a lot of forces and CS personnel are trying to keep the wheels from falling off and keep the show on the road. I know its easy to target the CS - after all, we've all met little jobsworths in stations who can be a pain, but these people can be found in any walk of life, in uniform or in the CS.
Having listened to several 3/4* figures (both uniform and CS) make quite clear the other day that every MOD CS should be in no doubt that their role is to support the front line, I don't think there is a shadow of a doubt where our priorities lie. Perhaps its time to let go of your baseless predjudices and accept that people are trying to help - even if we are untermenschen for not wearing a flying suit.
Nevertheless, Plop finder, it is still a bŁoody travesty of a uniform!
When I wore such a prep school uniform at the age of 10, I would have been in trouble had I spoken such poor English!
I kept expecting him to say "Innit" or "Know wot I mean".....
When I wore such a prep school uniform at the age of 10, I would have been in trouble had I spoken such poor English!
I kept expecting him to say "Innit" or "Know wot I mean".....
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: South Wales
Age: 63
Posts: 729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Old Ned, just an opinion:
Glenn is a top bloke and anybody who has known him over the years will agree.
Please name the man you want or need because I am quite intrigued who that could be. I know a few at the top and I would much prefer Glenn (Even if I was still in).
Sir Richard Dannett is also a top bloke and he has made some great remarks, but what has he actually done to change things – not a lot. One wonders if the politicians just see him as another Lord Melchard.
I was pleased to hear Glenn mention that the Royal Air Force has been on continuous ops in the gulf for 17 years; something that some of the younger members of the RAF (since 2003 at least) might want to realise and understand.
Beagle, you surprise me at your comments about Glenn. Maybe you have never met him. Rest assured he is a great bloke who is totally committed to the RAF and the people who serve with him. He has an attitude you would have been proud of.
At the end of the day Sir Glenn has to be diplomatic and he has to be careful in what he says. If he wasn’t, the top MOD chaps and politicians would just bin him and you would end up with someone who has spent their careers with their head up somebody else’s behind – just like the majority of the middle to senior Officers in today’s Air Force.
The sad thing is that when Glenn retires, one of them will be in charge – then you really will have something to moan about.
Glenn is a top bloke and anybody who has known him over the years will agree.
Please name the man you want or need because I am quite intrigued who that could be. I know a few at the top and I would much prefer Glenn (Even if I was still in).
Sir Richard Dannett is also a top bloke and he has made some great remarks, but what has he actually done to change things – not a lot. One wonders if the politicians just see him as another Lord Melchard.
I was pleased to hear Glenn mention that the Royal Air Force has been on continuous ops in the gulf for 17 years; something that some of the younger members of the RAF (since 2003 at least) might want to realise and understand.
Beagle, you surprise me at your comments about Glenn. Maybe you have never met him. Rest assured he is a great bloke who is totally committed to the RAF and the people who serve with him. He has an attitude you would have been proud of.
At the end of the day Sir Glenn has to be diplomatic and he has to be careful in what he says. If he wasn’t, the top MOD chaps and politicians would just bin him and you would end up with someone who has spent their careers with their head up somebody else’s behind – just like the majority of the middle to senior Officers in today’s Air Force.
The sad thing is that when Glenn retires, one of them will be in charge – then you really will have something to moan about.
"the top MOD chaps and politicians "
Who are these 'top MOD chaps' you refer to? The only person senior to Sir Glen in the air force chain is CDS. The MOD do not have, and never have had the power to get rid of CAS's just like that. I'd be very interested to know who you think has got this power?
Who are these 'top MOD chaps' you refer to? The only person senior to Sir Glen in the air force chain is CDS. The MOD do not have, and never have had the power to get rid of CAS's just like that. I'd be very interested to know who you think has got this power?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bury St Edmunds.
Age: 60
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Off at a bit of a tangent as it were. Liked the toys on display behind Sir Glen. C17, Hawk, Typhoon (x2), Dave, Taranis and er....was that an SM 311? A pointer for the future instead of Tucano?
Anyway, for the general public who would have watched the interview I don't think too many would have worried about the technicalities of his presentation. Hopefully they would have picked up on the interesting points ie continual service in the middle east, more capability required here and there together with Emilia Reynolds comments on cutbacks etc.
Well done to Look East for broaching the subject and trying to make Joe Public aware that the RAF is working bl00dy hard.
Anyway, for the general public who would have watched the interview I don't think too many would have worried about the technicalities of his presentation. Hopefully they would have picked up on the interesting points ie continual service in the middle east, more capability required here and there together with Emilia Reynolds comments on cutbacks etc.
Well done to Look East for broaching the subject and trying to make Joe Public aware that the RAF is working bl00dy hard.
"Stu Peach for CAS. Hard as nails, takes no sihte, and the most proficient air warfighting man I have ever met. Including me."
Totally concur - best senior RAF officer that I have ever had the pleasure of doing business with. Totally supportive of his staff and utterly focussed on the job. He's done wonders as CDI and I think he could do a great job as CINC or CAS.
As for this
"So you mean to tell me that if a CAS turns out to be “Not one of us” he would not be got rid of."
I'm still asking who would be doing the 'getting rid of' - people seem to think that "senior MOD figures" would do this. Who are these people- only 1 Officer is senior to CAS and that is CDS. Are you saying that if CAS speaks out CDS will sack him? He didn't sack CGS when he spoke out?
Once again - who are these mysterious MOD figures you speak off?
Totally concur - best senior RAF officer that I have ever had the pleasure of doing business with. Totally supportive of his staff and utterly focussed on the job. He's done wonders as CDI and I think he could do a great job as CINC or CAS.
As for this
"So you mean to tell me that if a CAS turns out to be “Not one of us” he would not be got rid of."
I'm still asking who would be doing the 'getting rid of' - people seem to think that "senior MOD figures" would do this. Who are these people- only 1 Officer is senior to CAS and that is CDS. Are you saying that if CAS speaks out CDS will sack him? He didn't sack CGS when he spoke out?
Once again - who are these mysterious MOD figures you speak off?
I've no doubt that Sir Glenn is a thoroughly nice chap who holds the interests of the RAF dearly at heart.
I just don't think that he came across very well in that interview. That's all.
Stu Peach sounds like someone the politicos might need to give a good listening to though....
I just don't think that he came across very well in that interview. That's all.
Stu Peach sounds like someone the politicos might need to give a good listening to though....