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National Union of Teachers vote to stop MoD recruitment in Schools

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National Union of Teachers vote to stop MoD recruitment in Schools

Old 26th Mar 2008, 00:07
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Northants
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Frankly the MOD have got more of a problem of retention of personnel rather than recruitment; I very much doubt that there will be a huge effect in doing this(even if its even passed successfully!).
May even be counter-productive in advertising the Armed Forces to the public (a story like this would unfortunately probably be given more publicity on the news than the death of a British soldier etc.).
Either way, just some more people trying to throw their weight around for very limited gain.
tutgby is online now  
Old 26th Mar 2008, 00:38
  #22 (permalink)  
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I see you are the same UN Class as Fireworks. Is that what your hoping for?

So what you are now saying is that unless you have carried troops around in the back of a helicopter during wars in various countries you aren't good enough?
Your interpretation, not mine.

I think you might be in for a bit of a shock when you join the real world.
As we have never met, and you have no idea what my background, qualifications, life experience, outlook or plans are, that's quite a bold statement. I'm not sure views on the NUT are a hot topic in most job interviews.

You just seem to drift from post to post. You are either trying to be witty, a task for which you seem ill-equipped or just argumentative. You can reply as much as you like mon brave but I really can't be bothered. Goodbye to you sir!
minigundiplomat is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2008, 00:45
  #23 (permalink)  
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I've got no time for lefties (especially the fascist liberal types) or the opposition/s.

They're spot on though.

Why risk your one chance at life for a bunch of robbing murdering liars.

No thanks.

I was proud to sign up for HM, breaking the covenant changes all that. They must learn to accept their lies or else they'll just do it again and again once the 'great' british public has forgotten about it all.

They haven't even got the decency to give them the best kit to fight for their lies, as well as try to eradicate responsibility by interfering with the inquest procedure.

Well done to the NUT or whatever they're called.

Last edited by Thelma Viaduct; 26th Mar 2008 at 01:32.
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 09:28
  #24 (permalink)  
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The only problem removing MOD careers visits will have, is that the teachers will now have to supervise their charges instead of dumping a whole yeargroup into the assembly hall and disappearing for a crafty smoke, whilst expecting some poor sob recruiter to try and keep order with 100+ kids.
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 09:36
  #25 (permalink)  
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I thought Freedom of choice was a fundamental part of the way of life in this country.

But the thing that causes me concern is the dialogue from the meeting. I saw a clip on the news last night and I would suggest this is more about the anti war feeling of the NUT rather than the MoD being allowed in schools, and this is the best mechanism for them to show their contempt.
mutleyfour is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2008, 10:14
  #26 (permalink)  
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Surely if this was taken to a fanciful conclusion and the NUT are succesful in reducing recruitment to the military in the way they seek then the only alternative to maintain the military would be to reintroduce national service thereby everyone gets a bit of the action.

Not such a bad prospect methinks but my wouldn't the NUT be proud..........
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 12:21
  #27 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Just a personal view but I think a few of you are missing the point. Looking at the present governments past performance and the performance of post WW2 Labour governments I think they will be very happy to see the armed forces continually reduce until they are about the size of the Home Guard as this would leave them with a lot more money to squander on any useless project they can think of.

Labour politicians are not Service minded in any way at all, they can only think of themselves so the idea that, "When things get bad enough they will have to do something" is a pipe dream, things are going exactly as they want them to.
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 12:41
  #28 (permalink)  
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I agree with parabellum. Forgive me for banging on about this again but I'm still convinced that old time International Socialism is quietly hiding away in Noo Labore. They are covertly achieving all the things that escaped them in the past and acquiring either Public appeal or indifference. Look at what's been done to the Constitution and the plans for the future.
GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2008, 12:49
  #29 (permalink)  
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beware The Troll 1.4g.

if You Have A Different Viewpoint He Likes To Send Pm's Calling You A Throbber Etc.

ignore Him And He May Go Away.
minigundiplomat is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2008, 13:23
  #30 (permalink)  
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This is all being portrayed in the media as the NUT trying to ensure that school students get an impartial view of events in the middle east, I can't argue with this but looking at the NUT conference agenda (http://www.teachers.org.uk/resources...l%20Agenda.pdf) you will see that the motion endorses the following:

Co-sponsor with the Stop the War Coalition and its other affiliated trade unions, mindful of existing legal guidelines, curriculum learning materials on peace and militarisation. In addition, the Union agrees to purchase and circulate the most recent education pack produced by the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, which promotes an understanding of the history of this most protracted dispute in the Middle East.
What we are seeing is a bit of political grandstanding from a group of people who haven't grown out of the sixth form debating societies they previously (dis)graced. What beggars believe to me is the standard of journalism that is attached to this and other issue surrounding the military. A bit of research turns up these facts that journalists fail to challenge the NUT on.
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 13:31
  #31 (permalink)  
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Imams - purveyors of terror and evil? Infecting our young with the wickedness and teachings of the Koran?

Pass me your brush, my shed roof needs tarring.

noregrets is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2008, 14:12
  #32 (permalink)  
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Anybody know what power the NUT has to stop visits by the Armed Forces to schools? I would have thought that it was down to the school governers and the Head Teacher to decide, or am I being too traditional?
The Head Teacher has the ultimate say on who is invited to speak in a school. Given that when I was the Squadron Commander of an ATC Squadron, they wouldn't let me or any other uniformed member of staff in to talk about the advantages of being an ATC cadet, the chances of letting in Service personnel were nil and reducing; whether that has changed subsequently, I don't know. They think we turn all 13 - 20 year olds into steely eyed monsters, rather than well rounded, self disciplined and well mannered individuals (generally speaking). Golden Brown (and President Blair before he) is very keen to promote citizenship in schools. That has been enshrined in the Aims of the Corps since 1968, at least. Shame they don't tell the NUT that......................
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 15:46
  #33 (permalink)  
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It is up to the Head Teacher. I am a Governor at 2 schools and they do not like the radical Union types anymore than we do.

This problem is not just confined to the Armed Forces. They do not like having business in either. At a Confernece two years ago the Personnel Manager of a National chainstore gave us a presentation on what they are looking for from school leavers to enter their management programmes. They had approached 1000 schools and only been allowed into 19!! They would not let in the NHS or similar either.

There are too many 'dead wood' teachers who live in a time-warp and pass on out of date information to the kids. They do not want the real world to creep in and spoil their pension plans. There are, however, also some truly inspirational teachers as well so all is not lost.

On a more positive note the High Schools have now introduced a 1 year Uniformed Services course for post GCSE students. Lately, at the High School I am a Governor at, they had 4 Royal Marines come up for 3 days and 'beast' the kids. Not sure of its worth but the point is NUT does not necessarily talk for the majority, although there is undoubtedly a very left leaning slant within most schools.

What is needed are 'Job Fairs' between GCSE and sixth form where all types of careers are showcased.

I think it's called freedom of speech and choice......
Wyler is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2008, 16:05
  #34 (permalink)  
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Bit of context:

NUT has c100 000 members. How many were in the conference? 500?

In my school, I regularly throw out all the union bumph after about a month- unopened.

In 2003, 35000 votes were cast on an issue; 86% were in favour of boycotting the tests (in England), and that number couldn't swing the action.

The current pay ballot is by no means certain to win.

The people on the telly ARE NOT representitive of 'Joe Teacher': none of my staff wear sandals, are gay or lesbian by trade, and are by no means lefties.


(who's helping this story live way past its chip paper threshold.)
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 16:24
  #35 (permalink)  
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I reckon there has always been 'atmosphere' between some members of the teaching profession and forces personnel.

Serving in the Royal Marines, and living in Plymouth in the 60s with my then wife, a teacher, I accompanied her to a gathering of her colleagues. They soon sussed I was a Bootneck, and the welcoming atmosphere changed instantly.

I was then approached, and asked if I had killed anyone!

I admitted I hadn't, but the evening was just starting, and I hadn't had time yet.

We left soon after that!

exrotarybooty is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2008, 16:48
  #36 (permalink)  
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FWIW there are some perfectly sensible schools and heads out there. My daughters attend a single-sex comprehensive not a million miles from Benson. They have one session a week for non-academic work, and a recent option has been "the Army" led/taught by lads/ladies from the RLC EOD regiment next door.

All the Armed Services get a chance to present at the careers sessions.

The lesson from this is for all COs to get out and talk to their local schools in conjunction with ACLOs and get over that while Iraq and Afghanistan are part of the job, they are not all of the job.
airborne_artist is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2008, 17:08
  #37 (permalink)  
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I think its easy to see whats going on here. The NUT executives who drew up this motion are politically and ideologically opposed to our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan and are expressing their displeasure against a part of the establishment they hold partly responsible. They cannot or will not differentiate between the role of the armed forces and that of the government whose policies the services must enact.
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 17:28
  #38 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 619
Funny that the MOD says that they do not recruit in schools. I was recruited in school. But then neither I nor my school were exactly what you would call deprived. As to emphasising the rebuilding and relief work done by the forces, I would sugest the NUT look at the latest adverts for the Green Death. Not much emphasis on pink and fluffy but rather a lot on kill or be killed. Splitbrain is correct.
I have spoken to my year 11 daughter on the subject and after realising that "Captain Ginger" would indeed carry on visiting her school she calmed down. She also tells me that teachers are not allowed to voice an opionion in class. So I guess this vote is just a way of getting around that. An attempt to keep people out of school who will put one side of an argument that some teachers are fundamentally opposed to but would not be able to argue against. If that is true, then what has happened to freedom of speach?
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 17:40
  #39 (permalink)  
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It had some bloody good ones, including one lauded by Jeramy Paxman recently. But I hated them all and no one taught me to type!
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 18:15
  #40 (permalink)  
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First, the use of the word 'propaganda' is entirely inappropriate by the NUT (when describing Forces recruiting). Propaganda is used to further a cause or doctrine, such as Marxism or Nazism (for example), not recruiting.

Secondly, does the NUT practice what it preaches? Let's investigate...well, I'm sure you've all seen the recruiting adverts for teachers on the TV and in the press - the 'use your head; teach' ones. Do any of those adverts state that, if you become a teacher, that you may be subjected to assault by the pupils (physical or verbal); that drugs and weapons are prevalent in schools; that if you try to control your unruly pupils, that you will likely be charged yourself; and that there is a good chance that you will leave the profession within 3 years because of ill-health, stress or assault? Has the NUT done anything to make sure that these facts are properly represented? Errrr, no.

Thirdly, last week the Training & Development Agency for Schools (a govt dept that organises teacher training) sent out a letter to all teachers who have left in the past few years, encouraging them to come back; there is a staffing crisis in schools. The letter cites improvements in the job, such as more pay and better hours. One John Illingworth, who resigned as a head teacher 3 years ago due to mental illness bought on by stress, addressed the NUT Conference yesterday stating that the letter is 'damned lies; we shouldn't encourage people into teaching on the basis of lies because, if we do, half of them will leave in the first 3 years'.

NUT - get your own house in order first.
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