TA to expel soldiers who won’t go to war
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TA to expel soldiers who won’t go to war
Probably more to this that meets the eye.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3559757.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3559757.ece
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"The Ministry of Defence (MoD) wants to get rid of what it sees as weekend warriors happy to wear the uniform but unwilling to fight, a Whitehall source said."
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Reservists....good and bad....
One of my SNCOs has had his deployment location changed to a more hostile area than originally planned as the deskie has been forced to find a place for a Reservist who can't shoot well enough to deploy somewhere you need to carry weapons routinely. I kid you not.....
Whilst the Reservists and their support is very welcome, it grates to have had to tell my SNCO the reason for the change.
SBG
Whilst the Reservists and their support is very welcome, it grates to have had to tell my SNCO the reason for the change.
SBG
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I have commanded both TA and regular troops/airmen
Many of my TA troops were very committed, and in many cases excluded from regular service due to irregularities during their teenage years in some fairly negative environments, but just as committed.
Read some of the comments in the Times. The government wants them, but will not mobilise them, leaving the burden of negotiation with employers etc in the soldiers hands. To be honest this is just taking the p1ss a little. Want them - mobilise them - basta !!
I would implore the politicos, stop ****1ing these people around. They are volunteers, show them the same faith that they show you.
SBG, do you realise how ridiculous you sound. Poor diddums regular gets a little more shot at because the part timer will not take his place - total bollox, your regular should be ashamed of himself if he is really harbouring those thoughts.
Reality check ......GO
Many of my TA troops were very committed, and in many cases excluded from regular service due to irregularities during their teenage years in some fairly negative environments, but just as committed.
Read some of the comments in the Times. The government wants them, but will not mobilise them, leaving the burden of negotiation with employers etc in the soldiers hands. To be honest this is just taking the p1ss a little. Want them - mobilise them - basta !!
I would implore the politicos, stop ****1ing these people around. They are volunteers, show them the same faith that they show you.
SBG, do you realise how ridiculous you sound. Poor diddums regular gets a little more shot at because the part timer will not take his place - total bollox, your regular should be ashamed of himself if he is really harbouring those thoughts.
Reality check ......GO
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SBG, do you realise how ridiculous you sound. Poor diddums regular gets a little more shot at because the part timer will not take his place - total bollox, your regular should be ashamed of himself if he is really harbouring those thoughts.
I don't think SBG actually said that, although his whinging tone suggests he does indeed require a reality check. The reservist in question has an apparantly proven inability to shoot straight so it more a case of "cannot take his place" rather than "will not take his place". [Would you want someone who cannot shoot straight alongside you in a combat situation?]
Whilst this raises questions about the standards required of reservists generally, it also highlights the very real need for people on the ground in nasty places to be able to do things (e.g. shoot at people) which may be outside the scope of their everyday trade (e.g. fix airframes).
If the reservist in question is say, RAF Regiment, then it is fair to raise questions about why he is doing that job. If he is say a techie or bluntie then I'm not so sure that it's fair on the bloke to have a pop about his inability to fire a weapon accurately.
Just my 2p worth
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To be honest even when I was serving back in the late 1980's we used to discuss the issues around mobilisation of the TA in all sorts of scenarios.
The one thing that came out was - if the threat was direct to me, or even mainland UK we'd probably end up with a less than 60% turn out from my unit. Of those only 30% would be fully trained soldiers .
The remainder were honest and said they felt they would be of 'limited use' to a regular unit in a re-inforcement situation.
Most of my TA soldiers (we were infantry) openly admitted that if the AB592 (remember those ?) ever dropped on the mat, they would not turn up.
Personally I am more in favour of regular reservists, specialist TA soldiers (like CVHQ) where civillian skills can be directly transferred - vehicle mechs etc) and keep the rest of the TA as home defence (like the old HSF concept).
Not that I want to stop people volunteering for dets - but lets keep it real about capability and commitment levels.
and that's my 2p worth..................
Arc
and I still think our troops are doing a fantastic job under appalling conditions without all the kit they should have, and with pathetic political back up.
The one thing that came out was - if the threat was direct to me, or even mainland UK we'd probably end up with a less than 60% turn out from my unit. Of those only 30% would be fully trained soldiers .
The remainder were honest and said they felt they would be of 'limited use' to a regular unit in a re-inforcement situation.
Most of my TA soldiers (we were infantry) openly admitted that if the AB592 (remember those ?) ever dropped on the mat, they would not turn up.
Personally I am more in favour of regular reservists, specialist TA soldiers (like CVHQ) where civillian skills can be directly transferred - vehicle mechs etc) and keep the rest of the TA as home defence (like the old HSF concept).
Not that I want to stop people volunteering for dets - but lets keep it real about capability and commitment levels.
and that's my 2p worth..................
Arc
and I still think our troops are doing a fantastic job under appalling conditions without all the kit they should have, and with pathetic political back up.
The Ministry of Definance's over-reliance on the so-called 'total force concept', involving a penny-pinching approach to regular force strengths and an overly optimistic reliance upon reserve forces, is beginning to show itself for the utter crock it truly is.
TA and RAuxAF units are one thing, but expecting RAFResA and RAFResO personnel to support a 5 year farce of Bliar's making is way outside the scope of the commitment to be reasonably expected from such RAFRes personnel.
Many of whom don't actually realise that they have a reserve commitment! They left under PVR terms and probably have little idea that an envelope inviting them to play could drop through the post box at any time. That is, if the MoD can find them! RAFRes personnel are supposed to keep PMA (or whatever it's now called) informed of their addresses - but if the MoD moves its units (e.g. Binnsworth to High Wycombe), do they tell all the reservists the new contact address........
? Do they heck!
I'm surprised they haven't tried calling out the ATC and CCF yet...
TA and RAuxAF units are one thing, but expecting RAFResA and RAFResO personnel to support a 5 year farce of Bliar's making is way outside the scope of the commitment to be reasonably expected from such RAFRes personnel.
Many of whom don't actually realise that they have a reserve commitment! They left under PVR terms and probably have little idea that an envelope inviting them to play could drop through the post box at any time. That is, if the MoD can find them! RAFRes personnel are supposed to keep PMA (or whatever it's now called) informed of their addresses - but if the MoD moves its units (e.g. Binnsworth to High Wycombe), do they tell all the reservists the new contact address........
? Do they heck!I'm surprised they haven't tried calling out the ATC and CCF yet...
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A mate of mine flirted with the idea of joining the RAuxAF. She was told from day one that once the training was complete she'd be expected to deploy.
Surprisingly frank admission if you ask me.
Surprisingly frank admission if you ask me.
Most RAFRes reservists called out for GW2 were in those trades which had been over-civilianised in the first place.
They were expected to back-fill domestic posts, to allow their regular colleagues to deploy.
Whereas the RAuxAF were expected to deploy.
But it was never thought that Bliar's adventurism would still be going on some 5 years later, nor that such reliance on reserve forces would still be needed.
They were expected to back-fill domestic posts, to allow their regular colleagues to deploy.
Whereas the RAuxAF were expected to deploy.
But it was never thought that Bliar's adventurism would still be going on some 5 years later, nor that such reliance on reserve forces would still be needed.
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How does the MOD compensate TA soldiers these days for loss of income from their regular jobs if deployed? There is no correlation between a TA soldier's army pay and his civvy pay - so a TA soldier may not necessarily be able to pay his mortgage and other ongoing commitments etc on his deployment pay. I imagine this would be a big impediment to many deploying.
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As a matter if interest, is there any X Factor for TA? I was thinking not so much in terms of having their wages paid, but more what they're going to lose in the future with their 'real' jobs due to not being promoted, due to spending so much time with the MoD instead of counting paperclips or driving trucks, or whatever it is they were doing in civvy street?
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TA not just the dole patrol...
I don't have much of a singing voice....
The MoD is required to make up the shortfall up to a ceiling - GBP 548 a day or thereabouts for mortals like me - and GBP 700 ish for the demi-gods in Harley Street. RTMC at Chilwell takes all your circumstances into account, mortgage, pension contributions included. Mind you, if you are self-employed rather than salaried the RAO does require audited accounts, statements from current clients etc.
This left the MoD paying me more than the general in charge of RC(S) last Spring, which shows just how cock-eyed our military world has become nowadays. (Then again, the AAC invited me on the all-expenses paid vacation, I didn't ask them.
)
There is no X factor, though. It would be far too amorphous to calculate.
The MoD is required to make up the shortfall up to a ceiling - GBP 548 a day or thereabouts for mortals like me - and GBP 700 ish for the demi-gods in Harley Street. RTMC at Chilwell takes all your circumstances into account, mortgage, pension contributions included. Mind you, if you are self-employed rather than salaried the RAO does require audited accounts, statements from current clients etc.
This left the MoD paying me more than the general in charge of RC(S) last Spring, which shows just how cock-eyed our military world has become nowadays. (Then again, the AAC invited me on the all-expenses paid vacation, I didn't ask them.
)There is no X factor, though. It would be far too amorphous to calculate.
Last edited by FrogPrince; 17th Mar 2008 at 17:21.
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The HMG and the MoD has never really got the hang of the TA, IMHO. I joined in 1980, and 18 months later there was a problem on Op Corporate. The solution was only to be found in a TA unit, but with 160,000 in the regular Army, no-one had the political bottle to admit the fact, and then mobilise the forty-odd guys who had the kit and the skills. I know for a fact that the suggestion was turned down by the war cabinet.
The more recent experience of TA lads who have been sandy-side is that there is no proper infrastructure to support their families while they are away, and even less to support them on their return. Some of those who have come back wounded have been really badly let down, as have some who despite the law, have lost their jobs or been very badly treated by their employers.
I had a great time in the TA, and I was very prepared to be mobilised in the event of Ivan preparing to cross the IGB, but I'd advise against joining now.
The more recent experience of TA lads who have been sandy-side is that there is no proper infrastructure to support their families while they are away, and even less to support them on their return. Some of those who have come back wounded have been really badly let down, as have some who despite the law, have lost their jobs or been very badly treated by their employers.
I had a great time in the TA, and I was very prepared to be mobilised in the event of Ivan preparing to cross the IGB, but I'd advise against joining now.
Last edited by airborne_artist; 17th Mar 2008 at 20:45. Reason: spelling
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Is this going to mean the end of the AAC TA Pilot?
http://www.army.mod.uk/aac/territori...recruiting.htm
http://www.army.mod.uk/aac/territori...recruiting.htm
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How does the MOD compensate TA soldiers these days for loss of income from their regular jobs if deployed? There is no correlation between a TA soldier's army pay and his civvy pay - so a TA soldier may not necessarily be able to pay his mortgage and other ongoing commitments etc on his deployment pay. I imagine this would be a big impediment to many deploying.
I don't know what it is now but it used to be around SAC £32.000 i think for a SAC so if you earned more than that they would not call you up.
As a matter if interest, is there any X Factor for TA? I was thinking not so much in terms of having their wages paid, but more what they're going to lose in the future with their 'real' jobs due to not being promoted, due to spending so much time with the Mod instead of counting paperclips or driving trucks, or whatever it is they were doing in civvy street?
What used to be the biggest problem was if you had a company pension some times you had to find the contributions your self to keep the pension up to date or it was frozen for the period you were away.
At the moment, only TA members who have indicated a willingness to be mobilised are being called up, unlike on Telic 1, when quite a few got a bit of a shock. In my particular specialty, the person resposible for filling the slots rings up about a year in advance to ask if you can go - my feeling is that saying no is not really an option unless you have a good reason, (perhaps that's why I've just got back from my third tour since 2003) but negotiation on dates is possible. Unfortunately the current policy on appeals seems to bew to not oppose any employer appeal unless it is in one of the really short CEGs. My unit has been warned off for next year - not the entire unit is required and not everyone who volunteers will get to go.
TA do in fact get X Factor - it is set at 5% rather than 13% (just gone up to 14%?) for regulars, but it is based on a lower salary scale, and AFPRB declined to increase it in their review this year, despite increased turmoil, etc.
RTMC/HMS Nelson/RAuxAF will make a Reservist's Award to a total maximum of £548 daily rate for most groups on evidence of civilian and reserve pay, and this is now irrespective of the mobilised rank.
The majority of reservists come back from deployments having benefited from the experience and with a sense of achievement- I certainly did, but then I was being chauffered around by Padders and his mates in a dedicated cab
Thanks, guys
TA do in fact get X Factor - it is set at 5% rather than 13% (just gone up to 14%?) for regulars, but it is based on a lower salary scale, and AFPRB declined to increase it in their review this year, despite increased turmoil, etc.
RTMC/HMS Nelson/RAuxAF will make a Reservist's Award to a total maximum of £548 daily rate for most groups on evidence of civilian and reserve pay, and this is now irrespective of the mobilised rank.
The majority of reservists come back from deployments having benefited from the experience and with a sense of achievement- I certainly did, but then I was being chauffered around by Padders and his mates in a dedicated cab
Thanks, guys