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Jeremy Vine show today...wearing uniform in public

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Jeremy Vine show today...wearing uniform in public

Old 21st Feb 2008, 09:09
  #21 (permalink)  

Gentleman Aviator
 
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If you are going to do it, do it properly, wear your chuffing hat and don't take it off when you walk in a shop.
... caps off indoors surely ....

...... when one shops in uniform, one places ones cap smartly underneath left arm, peak facing forwards ......

... given time I might find the regs .....
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 09:28
  #22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Mr-AEO View Post
Take your b****y hat off when you walk in a shop for goodness sake. You are inside. It winds me up to see people with such ridiculously high standards; I suggest that these people also wear their headgear when in bed and in the bath! - barking mad!

Not sure where you are coming from here Mr AEO.

True, at a US Commisary or BX there is often a man on the door telling you to uncover. There may also be a case for uncovering so that you may be identified on CCTV BUT . . .

In the British Military it is the rule that you wear headress when walking about a building and thus can salute on entering an office or briefing room. You are also required to wear headress when in a car whether it is service or private.

Before we got the white annoymous buses you were also required to wear a hat in the bus.

We also wore hats out the the aircraft.

The latter has gone and most of the former are honoured in the breach rather than the observance but it is the norm to wear headress except in church and in church too if you are female.
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 09:37
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr-AEO View Post
Take your b****y hat off when you walk in a shop for goodness sake. You are inside. It winds me up to see people with such ridiculously high standards; I suggest that these people also wear their headgear when in bed and in the bath! - barking mad!
I think you will find that QR's states that hats need not be worn when indoors at designated place of work, in church (males only) and in civil court whilst the judge or magistrate is present (except when on duty under arms). Nothing there about not wearing them in shops or inside in general!

Standards my dear chap, standards

MadMark!!!
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 09:50
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Hats awrf

I think the ol' single service issue raises its head here. RN do not walk about with caps on indoors, nor do we salute indoors. Army, got to wear them all the time and well RAF, do they know what saluting is?

Try being in the RN, on an Army station and walking past a member of the RAF!
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 10:37
  #25 (permalink)  
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Totally agree: Indoors = hat off.
Outdoors = hat on.

Too many people seem to be embarrassed about wearing hats outside of the military confines. If it bothers you, wear civvies, you're more than entitled to do so, but please, please look smart when in the civvy world as it does us all no favours if you don't.
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 10:44
  #26 (permalink)  
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Take your b****y hat off when you walk in a shop for goodness sake. You are inside. It winds me up to see people with such ridiculously high standards; I suggest that these people also wear their headgear when in bed and in the bath! - barking mad!
Why on Earth would I take my hat off? Ridiculously high standards - I think not, just some standards. Barking mad to carry it when you have a perfectly good head to wear it on.

If you are going to wear it, do it properly. If you can't do that, get changed.
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 10:47
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Southbound, understandable from an Army perspective, need to keep one hand free for the riding crop!
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 10:51
  #28 (permalink)  
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I think we should all have some baton/stick type thing. Personally I would go for an electric cattle prod for mixing with the real world, would not want them to get too close
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 11:22
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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As far as I recall it was hats off only when in a public room of the mess. Hats on at all other times until inside one's office, crew room or briefing room or until walking out onto a busy ramp to one's jet. Is that no longer the norm?
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 11:56
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Oh dear, and I thought it was only me who was confused about hats on/off indoors!

I hadn't wanted to start the inter-service banter again but...

IMHO - The RN tend not to wear hats indoors unless they have scrambly egg on their peak, and then they like showing it off!

In the last hour I have seen 4 RAF personnel with hats on at ABW and 2 Army with berets on. Not one passing RN officer/senior rate had any head gear even with them. Because, the senior officer here at ABW says to relax headgear, I do. Personally, I'll follow that order, although some don't agree with the 4*'s drop in standards obviously Some even feel compelled to wear their headgear inside the neighbourhoods - very smart, but is it necessary?
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 12:29
  #31 (permalink)  
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Only people I saw at ABW wearing hats were visitors. Place was no hats, but they did not advertise the fact at the gate. Local rule for inside the gate, if you went across the road to Sainsbury's, there was no excuse for not wearing a hat!

Last edited by South Bound; 21st Feb 2008 at 12:30. Reason: spelling faff
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 12:36
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mad_Mark View Post
I think you will find that QR's states that hats need not be worn when indoors at designated place of work, in church (males only) and in civil court whilst the judge or magistrate is present (except when on duty under arms). Nothing there about not wearing them in shops or inside in general!

Standards my dear chap, standards

MadMark!!!
Rising to a challenge, your statement of QRs has an element of truth but is not the right answer:

QR's states that hats are not to be worn on solemn occasions and in civil court whilst the judge or magistrate is present (except when on duty under arms).

It does not state that hats need not be worn when indoors at designated place of work. It does say that RAF Instructions are in AP 1358. On the last 2 units I was on OC Handbrake House had it in orders that the rule was hats ON in Handbrake House for visitors.

The AP states that hats need not be worn indoors at designated places of work.

You are quite right it does not mention shops etc as an exception and one would therefore hope that it was not a designated place of work therefore you should wear a hat in a shop. I agree this could lead to airmen in shops having to salute officers they meet but of course that would never happen as I am sure BEagle would agree that officers don't shop
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 12:36
  #33 (permalink)  
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I suggest that these people also wear their headgear when in bed and in the bath! -
Why of course, but then again some are proud of their hats
 
Old 21st Feb 2008, 12:56
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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30 + years in and I drive the 14 miles each day covered up........... seeing the recent sentencing of the "crew" about to behead a Muslim soldier for Al Jazeera TV I am so grateful there are so many other numpties out there keeping me off the "easy to film" list
SFFP

I didn't realise that you were a muslim in the military. Sadly this is a typical example of why the general public have forgotten that there is a military. I haven't done 30+ but I have done 25+. When I joined nobody batted an eyelid to seeing someone on the streets, at the bank, in their local supermarket and (heaven forbid) even in the pub in uniform, so I suggest that you are stretching the point slightly.

I didn't cover up at the height of the IRA campaign - no point really, there was only one route between my gaff and the bases I was at and I think even the IRA might have worked out that I was military. As many have said, if it was routine then nobody would bat an eyelid. Personally I would start with MOD - it's time the civil serpants realised that the "suits" aren't all civilians - the sooner the better! The IRA threat for which we all started covering up is a thing of the past, be proud to wear your uniform (but make sure you do it properly) and in public.
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 13:28
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Why on earth would you want to wear uniform off base?????
I dont get it at all? and I don't care what some obscure regulation says it's hats off the milisecond you get indoors.
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 13:38
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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I remember the XO at Yeovilton had a crack down on the Zoomy pilots a few years ago for wearing their grow bags in Tesco. I think that he was General Service and got put out that they had nice leather jackets to wear and an abundent supply of Raybans (as per Top Gun). Plus, I think that it was the middle of the afternoon!

PS - What are the reg's for wearing uniform in London? (Harrod's notwithstanding as they have special local rules)
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 13:39
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Pontious.
Wrong.
In the RAF perhaps, but not the "British Military"

The RN rules are quite clear.
The RN must remove headgear indoors, unless inbound for a negative coffee chat.
The RN must not salute senior officers on bikes, even if they are wearing hats.
Headgear should not be worn airside in the RN.
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 13:39
  #38 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Wader2 View Post
Rising to a challenge, your statement of QRs has an element of truth but is not the right answer:

QR's states that hats are not to be worn on solemn occasions and in civil court whilst the judge or magistrate is present (except when on duty under arms).

It does not state that hats need not be worn when indoors at designated place of work. It does say that RAF Instructions are in AP 1358. On the last 2 units I was on OC Handbrake House had it in orders that the rule was hats ON in Handbrake House for visitors.

The AP states that hats need not be worn indoors at designated places of work.

You are quite right it does not mention shops etc as an exception and one would therefore hope that it was not a designated place of work therefore you should wear a hat in a shop. I agree this could lead to airmen in shops having to salute officers they meet but of course that would never happen as I am sure BEagle would agree that officers don't shop
One could hope that, but the AP earlier states that headdress is to be worn when wearing uniform outdoors (emphasis mine), on or off base. At no stage I can see does it state headdress is to be worn indoors. From that one could argue that there is no authority, or at the very least no instruction, to wear hats indoors. Ah, the joys of pedantry...
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 13:55
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Try being in the RN, on an Army station and walking past a member of the RAF!
Well it can be just as trying the other way round, CC! Years, no decades, no half a century, ago I ended up on a CCF camp at Culdrose. There were two of us from an RAF section, all the rest were Navy CCF. Drill consisted of a lot of preparing to remove headdress, removing headdress and replacing headdress. Easy-peasy with a Naval cap, tiresome (well for the DI) with a beret, especially as we knew no such drill. The rest of the stay was equally disconcerting, with various Tannoys for Up Spirits, Down Pipes or whatever. The weirdest thing though was that off duty you were not allowed to leave camp except in groups of half a dozen, or perhaps it was even more. Something about manning a whaler?*@! Would that still apply if you wished to leave Tescos?
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Old 21st Feb 2008, 14:42
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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CCF, oh the joys!

Chug, me ol shipwreck, the days of CCF camps do seem so long ago. At least they let you step ashore!
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