JPA and their appalling administrating
Just beating the air into submission!
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I've been thinking what JPA could actually stand for, how about:
1. Just Plain Appalling
2. Jokers Prating About
3. Jackasses P*ss*ng Around
4. Jabbering Plebs Anonymous
I'm sure there are many more.
1. Just Plain Appalling
2. Jokers Prating About
3. Jackasses P*ss*ng Around
4. Jabbering Plebs Anonymous
I'm sure there are many more.
Last edited by HeliAviator; 16th Jan 2008 at 16:38. Reason: forgut tha spool chucker
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Agree with all you say about JPA, what a useless system. Brought in to make the system more efficient and save money. Havn't see a single person in the Pay/Admin Office move on, they are all still there to sort out the daily screw ups, so the MOD pays a fortune for the system and then still has to employ everyone who was working in the Pay Offices to sort out the mess. I've now had 2 terms of CEA not paid. First term, even though my personal info states 2 x children the CSA page shows no children therefore won't let me claim. Second term, enter in all the amounts to be claimed, submit and they all default to zero... result, claim rejected. If we flew our aircraft with such startling efficiency we would probably be sacked!
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RP,
I feel that I have to defend the P staffs on this one (not something I would normally do, but it's only when you lose something that you realise how useful it was)
Thank you for picking me up
I should have been clearer, in this instance I was talking about the staff at my location who have been abysmal; I hope you will understand I did not mean all others, take as you find and all that. I get the impression too that before JPA (with a larger staff) they were in general very good - I have heard this elsewhere, another loss.
Unfortunately the new system does not allow anyone to bypass it. Not the P staffs, not the JPA call centre staff, not even (if my case is to be used as an example) the JPA "Back Room" staff - you know, the ones you really need to speak to but can't e-mail direct or phone direct.
This is exactly my point - the humans have specified and installed a computer system to do a job, ie to pay us on time correctly. It appears that it is not working correctly in all instances (enevitable and acceptable, we must be realistic) but does not facilitate or allow the correction of these errors and delays (a pain in the arrse, poorly written software and unacceptable).
What is TOTALY unacceptable is that the humans that specified and installed this computer system have now become slaves to it! 'The new system does not allow anyone to bypass it.' Fair enough, poor software, but do not tell me that there is no one able to do some good old fashioned paperwork and write and get authorised a MANUAL work-around? (I am talking senior officers here)
Computer says no? Fine, address pay greiviences through a paper backup system and manualy enter the changes at a later date when computer is persuaded to say yes. DO NOT hide behind the 'computer says no' argument because all it demonstrates is that someone has not the spine or can not be arrsed to take responsibility and sort out the problem!
'Ah but the software can't be re-written... ' or ' but it would cost X million to re-write...' So you are saying therefore it is acceptable that those who risk their lives, often away from young families and overseas, are underpaid and fobbed off at every turn from now until the government have sacked the last member of the Armed Forces? (maybe not long then?!)
The reasons people leave are numerous but having the wife/husband pissed off again (as you are) at the cock-up in pay will weaken the reasons to not PVR at the first oppertunity... quite possibly the proverbial straw.
Loose a few pilots early and thats a lot of training cost lost. Loose a cab because the dilution of experience was one of those holes in the swiss cheese of fate and what has been lost then? The premature loss of all ranks and specialisations in all services is costly; fixing JPA, however it is achieved, will ultimatly save more money than it costs as well as being moraly the correct thing to do.
I feel that I have to defend the P staffs on this one (not something I would normally do, but it's only when you lose something that you realise how useful it was)
Thank you for picking me up
I should have been clearer, in this instance I was talking about the staff at my location who have been abysmal; I hope you will understand I did not mean all others, take as you find and all that. I get the impression too that before JPA (with a larger staff) they were in general very good - I have heard this elsewhere, another loss.Unfortunately the new system does not allow anyone to bypass it. Not the P staffs, not the JPA call centre staff, not even (if my case is to be used as an example) the JPA "Back Room" staff - you know, the ones you really need to speak to but can't e-mail direct or phone direct.
This is exactly my point - the humans have specified and installed a computer system to do a job, ie to pay us on time correctly. It appears that it is not working correctly in all instances (enevitable and acceptable, we must be realistic) but does not facilitate or allow the correction of these errors and delays (a pain in the arrse, poorly written software and unacceptable).
What is TOTALY unacceptable is that the humans that specified and installed this computer system have now become slaves to it! 'The new system does not allow anyone to bypass it.' Fair enough, poor software, but do not tell me that there is no one able to do some good old fashioned paperwork and write and get authorised a MANUAL work-around? (I am talking senior officers here)
Computer says no? Fine, address pay greiviences through a paper backup system and manualy enter the changes at a later date when computer is persuaded to say yes. DO NOT hide behind the 'computer says no' argument because all it demonstrates is that someone has not the spine or can not be arrsed to take responsibility and sort out the problem!
'Ah but the software can't be re-written... ' or ' but it would cost X million to re-write...' So you are saying therefore it is acceptable that those who risk their lives, often away from young families and overseas, are underpaid and fobbed off at every turn from now until the government have sacked the last member of the Armed Forces? (maybe not long then?!)
The reasons people leave are numerous but having the wife/husband pissed off again (as you are) at the cock-up in pay will weaken the reasons to not PVR at the first oppertunity... quite possibly the proverbial straw.
Loose a few pilots early and thats a lot of training cost lost. Loose a cab because the dilution of experience was one of those holes in the swiss cheese of fate and what has been lost then? The premature loss of all ranks and specialisations in all services is costly; fixing JPA, however it is achieved, will ultimatly save more money than it costs as well as being moraly the correct thing to do.
SW
Don't get me wrong, I am not defending JPA!! I think it is a system that is a huge backward step, done on the alter of "efficiency" and purely to make manpower savings. I happen to know that many of those involved in the testing stated that the system was not ready to go live!! But oh no it had to go live on the stated date - we should have turned round to EDS and said "it doesn't do what we want it to do" and insist they fix it before accepting it. I know of one NCO that hasn't been paid by JPA for months; their station has had to revert to manual payments. This is another case of accepting a faulty system because someone at the top was worried about their next promotion (or MBE).
In 20+ years in the RAF I only remember 1 occasion where the RAF cocked up my pay (a pay run that missed the due date but was rectified within a week - with the ability to claim back any bank charges caused by the late pay run). Since JPA arrived I would hazard a guess that I am running at about 50-60% of monthly pay statements correct and 40-50% wrong.
Don't get me wrong, I am not defending JPA!! I think it is a system that is a huge backward step, done on the alter of "efficiency" and purely to make manpower savings. I happen to know that many of those involved in the testing stated that the system was not ready to go live!! But oh no it had to go live on the stated date - we should have turned round to EDS and said "it doesn't do what we want it to do" and insist they fix it before accepting it. I know of one NCO that hasn't been paid by JPA for months; their station has had to revert to manual payments. This is another case of accepting a faulty system because someone at the top was worried about their next promotion (or MBE).
In 20+ years in the RAF I only remember 1 occasion where the RAF cocked up my pay (a pay run that missed the due date but was rectified within a week - with the ability to claim back any bank charges caused by the late pay run). Since JPA arrived I would hazard a guess that I am running at about 50-60% of monthly pay statements correct and 40-50% wrong.
Just beating the air into submission!
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Something Witty
Well written, and something I read there sparked a reminder of the old flight safety film, "Flight safety, what's it got to do with me". Clearly the automon's at JPAC have not seen or heard of the film or have an inkling about human factors or flight safety, after all "what's it got to do with them". I'm sure they have never considered that their cold, uncaring, inefficient non-resolution of a financial problem would affect someone to the point of distraction and create a danger in the air. Nobbing around with a persons pay is a major stressor in an already stressful job where we are under staffed and under resourced. Perhaps the flight safety and human factors chaps at Bentley Priory may wish to join the fray?
Well written, and something I read there sparked a reminder of the old flight safety film, "Flight safety, what's it got to do with me". Clearly the automon's at JPAC have not seen or heard of the film or have an inkling about human factors or flight safety, after all "what's it got to do with them". I'm sure they have never considered that their cold, uncaring, inefficient non-resolution of a financial problem would affect someone to the point of distraction and create a danger in the air. Nobbing around with a persons pay is a major stressor in an already stressful job where we are under staffed and under resourced. Perhaps the flight safety and human factors chaps at Bentley Priory may wish to join the fray?
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RP,
No worries I understand where you are coming from even if I explained myself badly! Before JPA I saw a few problems but nothing like the present rate and those problems were more easily rectified.
HA,
You have made a very good point. I was more thinking the dilution of experience through high PVR rate (not exclusivly due JPA obviously but a factor illustrating our employer's care for our welfare nevertheless) as a contributry factor.
However, you are absolutly correct in the more immediate flight safety sense and I, as I am sure you, have seen the stress and frustration caused together with the impact on fitness to fly - days lost and enevitably days where stresses and fatigue were higher than they otherwise would be and sorties still flown... holes in cheese again.
A follow-on effect from the purely financial worry is the strain caused on relationships and this will only magnify the immediate flight safety problem... mind on the job? I think not.
Input from Bentley Priory would be interesting indeed although, no disrespect to their work, this should not be seen as just a flight safety issue but a forces-wide retention, morale and moral issue.
No worries
I understand where you are coming from even if I explained myself badly! Before JPA I saw a few problems but nothing like the present rate and those problems were more easily rectified.HA,
You have made a very good point. I was more thinking the dilution of experience through high PVR rate (not exclusivly due JPA obviously but a factor illustrating our employer's care for our welfare nevertheless) as a contributry factor.
However, you are absolutly correct in the more immediate flight safety sense and I, as I am sure you, have seen the stress and frustration caused together with the impact on fitness to fly - days lost and enevitably days where stresses and fatigue were higher than they otherwise would be and sorties still flown... holes in cheese again.
A follow-on effect from the purely financial worry is the strain caused on relationships and this will only magnify the immediate flight safety problem... mind on the job? I think not.
Input from Bentley Priory would be interesting indeed although, no disrespect to their work, this should not be seen as just a flight safety issue but a forces-wide retention, morale and moral issue.
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Perhaps, most importantly, HMG should get their proverbial c*** out of EDS's a**. I used to work for EDS, briefly, some time before I joined up, and they have never, to the best of my knowledge, delivered a project on-time, on-budget and functioning to spec.
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Back on the ol system and when I was in the army, if we privates had any pay problems we would tell our platoon Sgt. He would then speak to the Admin Warrant Officer and explain to him that if the problem was not rectified withing a few days, The Admin WO would get his head kicked in. It was amazing how few mistakes there were, and how quickly the few mistakes were fixed!
Give us the civvies home address who work in the "back halls" of JPAC. As I know a few of my army friends would like to try the same method of "perswaytion"
Give us the civvies home address who work in the "back halls" of JPAC. As I know a few of my army friends would like to try the same method of "perswaytion"
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Give JPA its due. It came in, it was rolled out to all 3 services on time and it works.
Well it works better than ALFENS ever did or MFMIS that never did.
I like this comment the best:
Anyone care to comment.....
"Where errors to pay are identified and to ensure there is no financial hardship, there are well defined processes in place to ensure swift payments are made."
Anyone care to comment.....
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"Where errors to pay are identified and to ensure there is no financial hardship, there are well defined processes in place to ensure swift payments are made."
A good spot ZH
In order to fully understand this statment we need to break it down and remove spin:
'Where errors to pay are identified...' This suggests a process that checks the pay for errors and flags them to the system. It is not a falsehood to suggest it's existance - your overworked underpaid soldier/sailor/airman is the checker and does identify errors to the system... usualy once a month for up to 12 months such is the willingness to accept what is already identified..
'...to ensure there is no financial hardship...' Hardship for who? From where Im standing its the MoD - think how much interest they must accrue from retaining what is really yours - multiplied out over the number serving? So a true statement, can't have the MoD unable to put £1000 chairs in their marble floored offices can we?
'...well defined processess..' indeed there are, named: Ignorance, Lazyness, Poor contracting, Poor Programming, Incompetance, Stupidity and Come Back Next Month.
'...ensure swift payments...' Odd how the deductions are incredibly swift - even so efficient that you were sometimes never meant to have certain deductions. That is what they mean isn't it? Payments to them I mean, after all, we would feel devastated were we to find that we actualy owed them anything and since none of us joined for the money we wont get in the neck from the other half when the rent is due or the bills are left unpaid.
A good spot ZH
In order to fully understand this statment we need to break it down and remove spin:
'Where errors to pay are identified...' This suggests a process that checks the pay for errors and flags them to the system. It is not a falsehood to suggest it's existance - your overworked underpaid soldier/sailor/airman is the checker and does identify errors to the system... usualy once a month for up to 12 months such is the willingness to accept what is already identified..
'...to ensure there is no financial hardship...' Hardship for who? From where Im standing its the MoD - think how much interest they must accrue from retaining what is really yours - multiplied out over the number serving? So a true statement, can't have the MoD unable to put £1000 chairs in their marble floored offices can we?
'...well defined processess..' indeed there are, named: Ignorance, Lazyness, Poor contracting, Poor Programming, Incompetance, Stupidity and Come Back Next Month.
'...ensure swift payments...' Odd how the deductions are incredibly swift - even so efficient that you were sometimes never meant to have certain deductions. That is what they mean isn't it? Payments to them I mean, after all, we would feel devastated were we to find that we actualy owed them anything and since none of us joined for the money we wont get in the neck from the other half when the rent is due or the bills are left unpaid.
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There were a further 7,589 payments where the MoD was unable to say whether they were higher or lower than intended.
Just beating the air into submission!
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Today, I have received a judgment in my small claims court case against JPAC. The judgment was in my favor and they have been ordered to pay immediately what's owed, plus the interest accrued and the £108 court fee. If they do not comply, enforcement proceedings can be taken against them. At least the court system works.
Last edited by HeliAviator; 26th Jan 2008 at 05:51.
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HeliAv's post is perhaps the most depressing example of the state of the nation you can read.
An officer (though it would make no difference if rating/soldier/airman) has to take the Govt (JPA is a govt agency) to court to get his pay correct.
If that's not breaking the military covenant, I don't know what is?
An officer (though it would make no difference if rating/soldier/airman) has to take the Govt (JPA is a govt agency) to court to get his pay correct.
If that's not breaking the military covenant, I don't know what is?