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Nimrod families angry at OBE

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Nimrod families angry at OBE

Old 2nd Jan 2008, 10:51
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Nimrod families angry at OBE

http://www.teletext.co.uk/News/regio...d/default.aspx

Not sure what to make of this one. Why are they angry at this guy, surely the finger is being poited in the wrong direction.
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 11:06
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A combination of two very emotive subjects fused together.
Is this view held by all the families? (no need to answer here)
Perhaps the honours list needs to be offered to the public to "speak now or forever hold the truth" (analagous to wedding ceremony) as a form of validation prior to final announcements. On the other hand, chances are that very few would get validated, there will always be someone who disagrees with the appointment of X.
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 11:11
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Don't see what the issue is. The citation is a bit pointed, find it hard to believe that it was the only reason for the award.
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 11:13
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Much as I dislike the Honours system and all it stands for (but thats another well worn thread), I can't think of anyone more deserving of recognition than this fine officer. Anyone who had to cope with the aftermath of a terrible tragedy so soon after taking command of his Sqn(was it just 2 weeks?) commands my utmost respect.

As with any media report, there is probably more to this than meets the eye - as Tappers Dad is specifically mentioned, perhaps he is best placed to comment on this.
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 13:40
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I don't necessarily object to the OC getting an OBE, but what have the VOs received??? Nothing!! Imagine being at home and with no warning or preparation being told your a VO for a family of one of your colleagues? They worked non-stop for 6 months, and there are still duties and responsibilities to carry out. They should get some recognition too.
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 14:02
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30mrad,
Comment deleted because, on reflection, it is a generalism, and not the "fault" of any individual recipient, esp one who received the award under very difficult circumstances.

5206

Last edited by 5206; 2nd Jan 2008 at 15:13.
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 14:08
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As an Officer who once had to walk down the garden path with the padre in tow and then knock on the door and pass on the news, I can sympathise with this guy.....he should get more than a medal.
Death and Dying is part and parcel of being in the Armed Forces. Every time we deploy, every time we take off we all know the risks and we are all prepared to accept those risks. Flying is the best job in the world, being the bringer of tragic news is the worst job in the world and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 14:25
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Spheroid

Been there, done that, and it's a sufficiently humbling experience that I certainly wouldn't wish it on any of my friends or colleagues - not sure about my enemies though. Sadly, it's part of the job. I can't imagine what it must be like for a sqn cdr.

Often in cases like this (and I haven't read the citation), the award is made to the commander personally, though it is intended as recognition for all involved. Sadly, it's not often seen like that.

By the way, the link didn't take me to the 'story', neither could I see it on the splash page - perhaps it's been pulled?

STH
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 14:37
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Its still there STH ,in the menu on the LHS, this is the 'story' :

Relatives of the RAF Kinloss Nimrod crew killed in a crash have attacked a decision to award the man in charge at the time of the accident an OBE.

Wing Commander Martin Cannard was named in the New Year's Honours List for his work with the bereaved families.

Graham Knight, whose son was one of 14 airmen killed in the Afghanistan crash, said the decision "beggars belief".
As I said, perhaps TD can comment further next time he's on.
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 15:04
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OC CXX is completely deserving of this award and I offer him my most sincere congratulations. It is a pity that derogatory glib comments have already appeared on this topic.

RB
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 15:24
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OC CXX.
A well deserved award.
I will never forget friends and collegues on crew 3 but taking it out on the Sqn Boss, who took over just before the accident and who has led the Sqn under the most difficult of circumstances, is not the way forward.
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 15:28
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Here is another link

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...6908-20271750/
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 15:40
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Having read the Daily Record link, I also think that blaming OC CXX for the state of the aircraft is very simplistic and that the journos have gone for the nerve touching aspect of this.

5206
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 17:34
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Having read the article, the only thing that's a disgrace is The Daily Record. These guys obviously think it's justified journalism to phone recently bereaved families and drop the news on them from a great height, in the hope of getting a reaction.

Hope the scumbags are proud of themselves.
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 17:58
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Thank you TheSmiter and airwaverider, found it now.

STH
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 18:26
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As has been said before, Martin only took over as OC CXX a very short time before this tragic event. Despite his short time on the Sqn he did know several of those lost very well as a result of his previous tours on the fleet.

He had to put up with the press, many 'behind the scenes' duties related to the losses, keeping his Sqn going at home and whilst deployed on Ops, and much more, all whilst going through his own grieving process. For those that know Martin you will have seen how many more grey hairs he gained whilst dealing with the aftermath of XV230. Yes, the VO's deserve recognition for the huge part they played, but them not receiving awards should not detract from Martin getting his.

For the families to come out and effectively say that he was partly responsible for the loss of their loved ones is misguided, at best. IMHO he did an exceptional job and deserves this award.

Well done Sir


MadMark!!!
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 18:50
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I am at a total loss to why there is this reaction towards him being given this honour, personally I send him my deepest congratulations. He had only been in the position for a short time, and I commend him on a job well done.

A few pointers which the article in the telegraph brought up for me. The quote made by Graham Knight (TD),
"This man was responsible for the safe operation of the Nimrod and the safety of its crews.
"He was one of those with responsibility for assuring the airworthiness and safety of the aircraft, including the mechanics.
"It's totally inappropriate and an insult to the families to give him a medal.
"He should have been shown the door and instead he gets an OBE. It's like a slap in the face."
First off, it was the responsibility of the safety case, not Cannard, to identify potential hazards. Liability over the failings of the safety case have been admitted and fault lies with this body not with Cannard. Up until the day of the hearing, Cannard or any of the groundcrew or aircrew, had no knowledge of the existence of the safety case. If the existence of the safety case was known, why was it not uncovered in the exhaustive research performed by Tapper's Dad and his supporters?

A comment was made in the same article that nothing had been heard from Cannard to the families. He had a squadron to run during a year of intense pressure, continued lack of manpower due to dets and other reasons, and the families all had VO's. They acted as a go between as well as their other duties to us and to their own work. What is to be expected of him, be in constant contact with 14 next of kins and the extended families as well as running a squadron, I wouldn't expect that of any man. Information was passed on via the VO's. I certainly don't find it an insult and I don't feel like I've been slapped in the face. I would like to see all the VO's acknowledged, at least. Problem is where does it end. Their families became involved with us, then there are those behind the scenes as it were, who isolated the crash site, who recovered our loved ones. So many poeple had a hand in bringing our boys back to us and helping us to lay them at rest, in showing us the respect and dignity which they held for them.

Another point, an ordinary bod on the street reading certain comments can easily see past the fact that the main fault in this was the policy and not those expected to carry out the work.

If it had been Des Browne being given an award for a job well done, then I would be intensely insulted, the only job he has done well is to degrade our forces.

So yes Martin Cannard OBE, my best wishes to you and my respect for coming through a difficult year, and as always Hugs.

LQ
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 18:52
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As one who worked with OC CXX for many years, I can think of few if any more able, humane and competent officers. This honour - which he will be entirely aware is a recognition of the hard work of many individuals as well as of his outstanding leadership qualities - is not something he would have sought out for himself.

It should be no surprise that angry and bereaved families have trouble maintaining perspective in such circumstances - I probably wouldn't either - but the press would do better to ask the people who really know what went on behined the scenes after this terrible tragedy, and not to attempt to impugn the reputaion of this fine officer.
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 18:57
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It should be no surprise that angry and bereaved families have trouble maintaining perspective in such circumstances - I probably wouldn't either - but the press would do better to ask the people who really know what went on behined the scenes after this terrible tragedy, and not to attempt to impugn the reputaion of this fine officer.
Where the story be in that. The press were fully aware of who to approach for this exact response, how to get that response and exactly how to report that response. The only response they have ever been given from me has been "you are a bunch of vultures, **** off", not ladylike, it sums my feelings up for the press.

They have chosen the angle to take over this whole sad loss, and they will use what they can to continue in that.

Last edited by Laboratoryqueen; 2nd Jan 2008 at 19:18.
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Old 2nd Jan 2008, 19:27
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Angry

This article really is beyond belief. If the sources quoted really did make those comments about OC CXX, then maybe they should come and meet me and some other members of the Sqn behind the bikesheds for a few lessons in respect...

CS
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