Next Years Pay Award
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Next Years Pay Award
In light of the Police pay debacle, I thought it might be about time to start whinging about next years pay award. Bet it'll be a similar tale for us!!
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ExRAFAC - I remember my father commenting about the XXXXX politicians who would stage the armed forces pay award to save money - in the 70s. Nothing new about that trick. Can't see Swiss Des being that cheap, surely? 
Can't see us getting f@@@@d over next year. Can see a large rise in installments, but the manpower within the military is currently in freefall, and the pressure must be on to arrest the descent before the situation droops below min levels.
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Not sure they have the balls to give us a rubbish pay rise this year. They would love to and they clearly resent every penny they pay towards Defence, but even the politicians must see that something needs to be done to keep enough of us in for the future. I guess something significant across the board (or at least up to and including SO2 level) and no great increase in SFA/SLA charges etc.
Interesting debate though - how much pay rise would it take to keep you in??? How poor a pay rise would hack people off enough to leave???
Interesting debate though - how much pay rise would it take to keep you in??? How poor a pay rise would hack people off enough to leave???
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Originally Posted by South Bound
Interesting debate though - how much pay rise would it take to keep you in??? How poor a pay rise would hack people off enough to leave???
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Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
The pay and benefits weren't enough to keep me in back in the 1980s. And don't let anyone tell you that the Armed Forces Pension Scheme is second to none, either. It isn't.
It's sad to have to say this but nothing will change until the forces have an association/union with negotiating power and teeth. But that goes against the grain, doesn't it? It did for me.
Sorry, folks, but the politicians don't value you as much as they should. Your only recourse is to take what you have learned, build on it and then walk out of the door.
The pay and benefits weren't enough to keep me in back in the 1980s. And don't let anyone tell you that the Armed Forces Pension Scheme is second to none, either. It isn't.
It's sad to have to say this but nothing will change until the forces have an association/union with negotiating power and teeth. But that goes against the grain, doesn't it? It did for me.
Sorry, folks, but the politicians don't value you as much as they should. Your only recourse is to take what you have learned, build on it and then walk out of the door.
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What happened to that armed forces association that started up a year or so ago? Has it died?
I suppose the only way to keep something like that going is to support it, although if everyone in the Services did it would still be v small compared to many employees representative groups (unions etc).
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Pay rise! ......Why.
Troops returning in droves from Iraq has the hand over goes on.
All that new kit promised by Gordon and friends for Afgan.
Our leaders stating we are not over stretched.
Increased spending on Troop housing back home.
All those smiling troops standing behind Gordon in Iraq and Afgan during the last few days showing how happy they are to be away at Xmas.
Medical care has never been better.
Fantastic new pension scheme.
Fantasic award wining JPA system.
Reduced home to duty because petrol is getting cheaper.
Great big sand pit to play in.
Pay rise come off it every ones so happy troops would take a pay reduction just to stay in the job.
After all inflation is less than 2%...... Gents, Gordon tells us so.
Troops returning in droves from Iraq has the hand over goes on.
All that new kit promised by Gordon and friends for Afgan.
Our leaders stating we are not over stretched.
Increased spending on Troop housing back home.
All those smiling troops standing behind Gordon in Iraq and Afgan during the last few days showing how happy they are to be away at Xmas.
Medical care has never been better.
Fantastic new pension scheme.
Fantasic award wining JPA system.
Reduced home to duty because petrol is getting cheaper.
Great big sand pit to play in.
Pay rise come off it every ones so happy troops would take a pay reduction just to stay in the job.
After all inflation is less than 2%...... Gents, Gordon tells us so.
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Originally Posted by snapper41
What happened to that armed forces association that started up a year or so ago? Has it died?
The association's biggest problem is they won't be listened to (apart from maybe by Breakfast News) unless they either seize the limelight through groundbreaking initiatives and do something tangible that amounts to more than just 'visions' and mission statements. No offence to the bloke who currently runs it, but we've not heard or seen anything of you!
The government is essentially reactive, only spending when it stands to gain good PR (Olympics) or see-off bad (Inheritance Tax) and it has no need to spend any more than the minimum on the forces because it knows both the law and forces' can-do are on their side. The association lacks the firepower of other professional organisations by not being able to put any threat behind its 'demands' a la 'no overtime'. Neither the public or the members of the forces would accept this anyway! Besides, in many ways our lack of representation is a strength.
Although a central component is money, that alone is not enough. Better would be the paradigm shift to accepting Britain's armed forces are a key component of the much sought after Britishness that Brown is looking for, in the same way Big Ben, roast beef and cricket is. That part of the link is loosely there, but needs to be strengthened in the national psyche. The missing part is including the forces in the winner's enclosure of proper funding, alongside the NHS and schools. The government could do this and I think it would be widely popular (note: Mr Brown, searching for populist policies), while it would also fund Britain's desired position on the world stage. But behind it has to be the will and this is lacking.
Unfortunately Defence is the silent whipping boy for increasingly stretched government funds. More vociferous causes get the money, irrespective of their propensity to waste and mismanage it. And in the mean time the gaps in Defence are being plugged by our good will and sense of duty. What is not readily recognised, or perhaps worried about by transitory governments, is good will is a finite resource.
I agree with Dallas on the whole. The important thing is, The Armed Forces were around long before Little Gordon learned that 2+2 announced 10 times made 40 Billion for the NHS on his toy abacus. They will be around long after he and his party of social engineering, low ability, spin obsessed and quite frankly, unfit for purpose misfits have gone.
It just puts lives and careers in danger NOW. But as long as new stuff is announced, and the public are reassured, it will be ok. Expect a 3.5% rise, staged over two years. Seems popular with the AFPRB.
It just puts lives and careers in danger NOW. But as long as new stuff is announced, and the public are reassured, it will be ok. Expect a 3.5% rise, staged over two years. Seems popular with the AFPRB.
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Associations & Petitions
On the subject of associations there is also this one:
http://www.uknda.org/
There are also a number of petitions about MPs' pay on the No10 Petition site, this looks the most appropriate:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/MPpayrises/
Be nice to see the MP's lead by example...
http://www.uknda.org/
There are also a number of petitions about MPs' pay on the No10 Petition site, this looks the most appropriate:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/MPpayrises/
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Cap MP`s pay rises and bring them inline with the REST of the public sector.
Last edited by 8-15fromOdium; 13th Dec 2007 at 13:22. Reason: add final sentence
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I seem to remember, that after a string of staged pay rises in the 80's & 90's, that the Armed Forces were made a promise (by Blairs government) that it would never happen again.
Will Brown renege on that promise?
Will Brown renege on that promise?
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Mick, the so-called 'covenant' between the government and the military has been so completely and utterly broken by this government that it's no longer worth the paper it was written on - if it were ever written at all!
Definitions:
1. A binding agreement; a pact.
2. Law
a. A formal sealed agreement or contract.
b. A suit to recover damages for violation of such a contract.
3. In the Bible, God's promise to the human race.
So surely as with any covenant (even a verbal one), there is a penalty to be extracted when one side breaks it?
Therefore, can we not demand compensation in the form of wages (through the AFPRB), as recompense for the lack of improvements which were promised us - in other words, isn't it time for a big hike in the X Factor - and I'm not talking about Simon Cowells trouser's either!
We are fighting 2 wars after all!
Trash
Definitions:
1. A binding agreement; a pact.
2. Law
a. A formal sealed agreement or contract.
b. A suit to recover damages for violation of such a contract.
3. In the Bible, God's promise to the human race.
So surely as with any covenant (even a verbal one), there is a penalty to be extracted when one side breaks it?
Therefore, can we not demand compensation in the form of wages (through the AFPRB), as recompense for the lack of improvements which were promised us - in other words, isn't it time for a big hike in the X Factor - and I'm not talking about Simon Cowells trouser's either!
We are fighting 2 wars after all!
Trash
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The other option could be to vastly increase LSSA and other deployment payments - that would have the added advantage of not rewarding malingerance (adj.?), for which there is no disincentive and an undue reliance on the seemingly medieval quality called integrity.