Victor/Canberra collision near Marham, 1968.

[drummer1]

Will send you a PM

[drummer1]

Menorcaman08

Tried to send you a PM - you need to change your settings.

[Wander00]

RIP both crews, Victor co-pilot was on the same Valley course,, 22 Gnat

[JKerrigan]

Thankyou

Originally Posted by Petasus

Hello all.
First post obviously, with a request for some help with research:

XH646 Victor B2 collided with a Canberra on the night of 19 August 1968 near the village of Holt in Norfolk. Both crews were killed outright. My uncle was the P2 of the Victor and I would like to be able to learn more about that fateful night.

I have 'Googled' and gleaned some information, as yet I haven't chased any RAF sources, although this could be the next step.

I believe the Victor was from Marham and the Canberra from Bruggen, the Victor crew were on a departure climb out from Marham during atrocious weather. A radio call from XH646 was heard, "Passing 3,500 ft", this was the last received transmission.

I would be indebted to any PPruners who can help me out by correcting the above, sharing experience, etc or just where to look next.

Thanks in advance.

Petasus

My father was Captain of the Victor his name was William Anthony Gallienne. Thank you everybody for your memories and this interesting thread. I didn't know about the bombing competition that's very interesting and the more threads and articles keep springing up about my dads air crash the more I learn.

I went to the 25 th anniversary memorial service in Holt where my mum and myself helped unveil a memorial plaque which was filmed by Anglia tv. If there is a 50 th as there should rightly be I think many people might like to go as from my reading this tragic event in my life also seems to be held in the memories of so many others. So its comforting to know that so many people have remembered my dad and the two crews.

Thank you for this thread

[MPN11]

I think it's fair to say, especially today, "We will remember them".

[Fonsini]

This site never ceases to amaze me with the level of knowledge and detail regarding specific incidents. Tragic never seems an adequate description of such things.

[robertfauchon]

I remeber this incident very well. I was due to come on shift at Eastern Radar that night. You are all right it was afilthy night. I had been visiting a friend in East Wretham and needed to take a shortcut through the battle area to make it on time. I knew the battle area was inactive that night and got the fright of my life when the skies lit up with a huge explosion. I hurried on through, but of course, it wasn't in the battle area the explosion occurred. I got to Eastern in time, only to see the place in panic as everyone tried to unravel the sequence of events. I worked all night trying to reconstruct the recordings and must have gone through miles of tape on the MARS. machine. The last controller to have contacted the Victor at the hand-over, was physically sick. It wasn't his fault, but everyone took it personally and we were all devastated. God bless them all especially the crews and families.

[Vendee]

Originally Posted by robertfauchon

I remeber this incident very well. I was due to come on shift at Eastern Radar that night. You are all right it was afilthy night. I had been visiting a friend in East Wretham and needed to take a shortcut through the battle area to make it on time. I knew the battle area was inactive that night and got the fright of my life when the skies lit up with a huge explosion. I hurried on through, but of course, it wasn't in the battle area the explosion occurred. I got to Eastern in time, only to see the place in panic as everyone tried to unravel the sequence of events. I worked all night trying to reconstruct the recordings and must have gone through miles of tape on the MARS. machine. The last controller to have contacted the Victor at the hand-over, was physically sick. It wasn't his fault, but everyone took it personally and we were all devastated. God bless them all especially the crews and families.

Its 30 miles from the training area to Holt where the collision occurred. I'm surprised you saw the explosion if the weather was as filthy as you say. Perhaps it was the electrical storm you saw?

[5aday]

Vendee,
It is approximately 30 miles from Marham as well. I saw the sky light up from a place almost on the airfield called the Burma Road. Instead of going to supper I returned back to the control tower along with three other airmen. I was not surprised by the news when we got back up the stairs into Approach Control.
Rgds
5 aday

[Vendee]

Originally Posted by 5aday

Vendee,
It is approximately 30 miles from Marham as well. I saw the sky light up from a place almost on the airfield called the Burma Road. Instead of going to supper I returned back to the control tower along with three other airmen. I was not surprised by the news when we got back up the stairs into Approach Control.
Rgds
5 aday

I stand corrected. I've just read post #27 which confirms what you are saying about the intensity of the flash.

[SNator]

I have just checked my logbook. It was a Salmond Trophy Hi-Lo-Hi via Wainfleet range for a timed FRA. As previously stated the wx was total doggers. I remember the climb out from Wainfleet as being v turbulent and IMC with lots of St Elmo's fire all over the front of my windscreen. I was flying a B(I)8 from 14 Sqn. Radio reception was non existent because of the static. We did not know of the collision until after we landed. I think the 213 jet was either just ahead or behind us. Just bad luck and bad weather.

[banjobill]

I was a 21 year old Junior Technician at the time on TTF (tanker training flight) at Marham. (This was the OCU at Marham for both the aircraft and in flight refueling.) We despatched the aircraft late at night (and in foul weather) and settled down in the crewroom to await it's return.
Some time later the chiefy in charge told us all to go home as the aircaft had crashed. We were all mortified, not just about the crew(god rest their souls) but also about ourselves..."what have I done wrong to cause this ?" It has been cathartic to follow this thread and to find out so much more about that awful night.

[Wander00]

ISTR that one of the Eastern Radar controllers that night was a first tourist, and one of the new breed of direct entry AT Branch people (ie no previous aircrew experience), He and I were among the (very) few guys around Watton with a single rank braid. I cannot remember his name, but I can see his face, and recall that he was badly affected by the accident, although he was exonerated from responsibilirty

[5aday]

Thinking ahead to the passing of 50 years on 19th August 2018, will there be any sort of remembrance either at Marham or Holt ?

[peppermint_jam]

Good evening all, this thread has been a very interesting read. Whilst the lives lost that fateful night will never be anything other than tragic, it has been heart warming to hear about the people behind the names, what they were like and so on.

We have a part of the Canberra fin at the Aviation Heritage Centre at RAF Marham, although it is not on public display at the moment, as we are trying to work out if it would be appropriate for starters, and if so, how best to do it.

There are also parts of the Victor, displayed at the Norfolk and Suffolk aviation museum too.

We are very aware of this incident and were discussing it only today, by strange coincidence. It would obviously be very appropriate to commemorate those lost at the 50 year anniversary of the crash, I will ask some questions.

If nothing else, I'll put my best blue on and take myself up to Holt on the day to pay my respects.

[5aday]

Some posts in this thread would seem to indicate Eastern Radar (Watton) was controlling both aircraft which was not the case. All climb outs from either runway (24 /06) at Marham were handled by Midland Radar based at North Luffenham (as were arrivals as well).
5aday

[boxtopnav]

Originally Posted by Menorcaman08

I was surprised and delighted to find this post. I knew Jack briefly in the 1960s because he married into a family (the Birds) I was friendly with. His wife was Cindy (Cynthia) Bird and we had been quite close friends. I also knew her 2 sisters, Pat and Susan and her brother, Eric as well as his mother and father. Both Eric and his father 'Dickie' were also in the RAF. I also remember Jack's daughter Samantha. She was tiny bless her when Jack died.

I remember the tragic crash clearly but it's only relatively recently that I realised it was over Holt. I lived close by in Norwich for 10 years without knowing that. I lost contact with the family around 25 - 30 years ago because of personal marital issues and I would love to know how Samantha, Susan and Pat are all doing. Sadly, Cindy died quite young as well after a second marriage and 2 further children. Eric died too. I don't think either of Cindy's parents can be alive.

If you get this message and have any information, please get in touch. I'd be happy to tell you anything else I can remember.

I am a retired RAF C130 Nav. I met the Bird Family when I was an officer cadet in 1970 at RAF Henlow. I have stayed in touch ever since. I was an Usher at Cindy's wedding to Tim Jones in 1970 and met Cindy a number of times over the years prior to her death. Both Cindy's parents have passed away but I am in contact with Pat. Sam is about 50 and has 2 girls. Sue also has a family. There are also two boys Alex and Matt as a result of Cindy's marriage to Tim Jones. A memorial service is to be held at St. Andrews church Holt on 19th August 2018 the 50th Anniversary of the mid-air collision.

[MarhamLass]

RAF Marham Attendance

I’ve read this thread with much interest and reverence. In my job I can confirm that there will be representation from Station Command and the Station Chaplains from RAF Marham on 19th Aug. I hope to be there too with my family.

[5aday]

Timings etc : 1500 hrs on Sunday 19th August 2018 at the Parish Church in Holt.
(St Andrew's Church,Church Street, Holt, Norfolk )
Sat Nav: NR25 6BB ...
The Station Padre and Station Commander will be attending.

There is a country park nearby and a commemorative plaque
is apparently being placed there some time in the morning though
details are still slightly vague..

Parking near the church is Pay and Display..

[scarecrow450]

Ref the sky my ex Cpl was on a fag break at Eastern and he wondered what had happened, he soon found out back inside.