Nice one 1435 flt !
Engineers
Officers and aircrew are the only people who call techies "engineers". Therefore, if the term is applied wrong then it's their fault. As a techy, I have more important things to worry about quite frankly...
If that's a slight misnomer by the way, what about Suppliers...RAF Medics...
If that's a slight misnomer by the way, what about Suppliers...RAF Medics...
Red On, Green On
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Tonka is a complicated beast, and a bit of a pig to keep serviceable
You'll probably find you could run twice the airframes on far less than 2 x 56.
Copied from advert at bottom of page 2
Aircraft maintenance jobs
Aircraft maintenance engineer jobs Contract and perm jobs available
Aircraft maintenance jobs
Aircraft maintenance engineer jobs Contract and perm jobs available
Ah the Falklands - Happy days! Great vid too. I was lucky enough to get a backseater in an F3 down there once - without doubt the most awesome thing I've ever done in my life - makes ramp-riding seem a bit tame! (unless you're naked
)
)
Originally Posted by goudie
I agree with BEags, (now look what you've started) qualified Engineers design things and work out how to build them, then the rest of us maintain them.
Originally Posted by goudie
Engineer in many cases is a much overused title.
There's also a big difference between Engineer and engineer.....
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Wonder if that little moggie p#sses in the immersion suits, like it's ancestor (c.1992) used to?!
P.S. We never called ourselves "engineers", just techies or linies. Damn proud of it too.
P.P.S. After 4 years of studying (using most of my spare time/leave) and a PVR, I still do the same job. I also do the Mech's/Chief's and EngO's job simultaneously. NOW I call myself an engineer. (Apologies for thread creep contribution, but there's a little of bit of right in what everyone has said; Beags wasn't being disrespectful).
P.S. We never called ourselves "engineers", just techies or linies. Damn proud of it too.
P.P.S. After 4 years of studying (using most of my spare time/leave) and a PVR, I still do the same job. I also do the Mech's/Chief's and EngO's job simultaneously. NOW I call myself an engineer. (Apologies for thread creep contribution, but there's a little of bit of right in what everyone has said; Beags wasn't being disrespectful).
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Just noticed another thread link below! Do you mean the little bugger in the vid was the same one from the F4 days? 
I thought one of the Aircrew would have shot him ages ago!!
I thought one of the Aircrew would have shot him ages ago!!
2 flying daily? What planet are you on then tanker w****r?
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1. sanitation engineer: formerly “garbage collector”
Daddy when I grow up to be a man I want to be a sanitation engineer so I can pick up garbage.
Call things what you want, but PC-created "self-esteem boosting titles" are everywhere... and just as silly as the above example.
I spent 8 years in the USMC fixing the FLIR/Laser systems on A-6Es and later F/A-18As. I had electronics engineering classes at university before entering active duty, and more high-level electronics training in the service... and I was always called (and called myself) an "Avionics Technician"... or a "Maintenance Technician".
I definitely was NOT an "engineer"... in either sense of the word: one who designs and creates... or one who operates an engine (rail locomotive or aircraft powerplant).
Daddy when I grow up to be a man I want to be a sanitation engineer so I can pick up garbage.
Call things what you want, but PC-created "self-esteem boosting titles" are everywhere... and just as silly as the above example.
I spent 8 years in the USMC fixing the FLIR/Laser systems on A-6Es and later F/A-18As. I had electronics engineering classes at university before entering active duty, and more high-level electronics training in the service... and I was always called (and called myself) an "Avionics Technician"... or a "Maintenance Technician".
I definitely was NOT an "engineer"... in either sense of the word: one who designs and creates... or one who operates an engine (rail locomotive or aircraft powerplant).
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I Are An Engineer
I completed a traditional 5 year apprenticeship and graduated as an engineer trained for life.On the path to retirement i obviously passed many type ratings and manufacturers courses.I joined my professional society and also had my quals noted at the Engineering Council.I know i am an Engineer and i have never been in any doubt as to what i am or what i can call myself.It is those who call themselves what they are not.Americans have always been confused,they call for a mechanic when he is actually an engineer.We say A&C,THEY SAY A&P,we say tomato they say etc.Unless you have the Theory quals backed up by the practical experience and are legally qualified by licence be careful how you address yourself.The confusion really reigns when designers are included.Designers design a machine with no thought on how to maintain it.We Engineers spend our time devising maintenance procedures for their designs.Hope you all understand now and will in future respect those who maintain and sign their life away for your safety.
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Different definitions of engineer exist,
That sounds like a Liney to me..
And perhaps Scotty on the Enterprise should be referred to as the Chief Maintainer?
“... we are inclined to forget that for many hundred of years science and engineering went their separate ways as if neither had anything to contribute to, or learn from, the other. From earliest times engineers were proud and independent craftsmen who were guided in their work not by scientific theories but by common sense and by practical rules gleaned from experience. (Cf. Florman, Samuel C. Engineering and the liberal arts, New York 1968).
And perhaps Scotty on the Enterprise should be referred to as the Chief Maintainer?
Last edited by Jetex Jim; 18th Nov 2007 at 02:10.
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The Wright Bros., Brunel, Stephenson et al were Engineers.
People who service and maintain aircraft, (the duties of a 'liney', I know, I did it) automobiles, computors, etc. are very skilled technicians/fitters/mechanics.
Engineers they ain't!
People who service and maintain aircraft, (the duties of a 'liney', I know, I did it) automobiles, computors, etc. are very skilled technicians/fitters/mechanics.
Engineers they ain't!
Last edited by goudie; 18th Nov 2007 at 07:09.
All points taken, but please - let's not try and overcomplicate things. Since day 1 of me joining this rabble the people who fix, maintain and look after aircraft have been engineers. It's been a lot more easy to call them that than by their specific job title.
If they were all referred to individually as techies/maintainers/linies then an engineers beer call would be a very quiet affair (and that's never been the case in my experience
)
Regards to all our groundcrew everywhere - we love you
p.s. Nice video. Different from the usual footage of things going back to rock music.
If they were all referred to individually as techies/maintainers/linies then an engineers beer call would be a very quiet affair (and that's never been the case in my experience
)Regards to all our groundcrew everywhere - we love you
p.s. Nice video. Different from the usual footage of things going back to rock music.
'Techies', 'oilies', 'sooties', 'fairies', 'groundcrew' - or whatever. The essential folk who keep the RAF's ageing museum pieces flying without too many bits falling off.
Indeed, highly regarded. Cat murderers excluded.
Only 'engineers' were BEngO (who hated being called that - so the name stuck!), JEngO and SEngO. Plus the mysterious OCEng who, (with the exception of the excellent 'Dolly' P**t*n) merely seemed to exist to provide the grit in the bearings of smoothly running squadrons.
Indeed, highly regarded. Cat murderers excluded.
Only 'engineers' were BEngO (who hated being called that - so the name stuck!), JEngO and SEngO. Plus the mysterious OCEng who, (with the exception of the excellent 'Dolly' P**t*n) merely seemed to exist to provide the grit in the bearings of smoothly running squadrons.
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Mechanic, Fitter II, Fitter I
Oh for the days when a mechanic, who was already highly skilled, might become a Fitter II after further training and, after a LOT more training, might just become a Fitter I (aka demi-god).
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Bruce Fletcher
Stronsay, Orkney
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Bruce Fletcher
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Strange World isn't it. Today (according to some) you have to have a degree to be called an Engineer. You don't have to be able to do the job, but you do have to have have a degree.
Then there was Orville and Wilbur, Stephenson, Brunell, well they didn't have degrees, but they did rather well inspite of that lacking in their 'education'.
I know of a person who has just obtained his EASA B1 Licence, he did 2 years at College doing his BTEC, a 4 year Apprenticeship and has worked, without any assistance from tutors etc for the past three years to pass his B1. An excellent achievement? You bet! I met him in the hangar the other day and asked him what he had been doing over the past few days. He had replaced a CF6 Engine and a number of flying controls. After installation he had carried out rigging and function checks. On top of that he had also done a complex skin repair. On top of that he is supervising a Team of Engineers and mentoring a number of less experienced staff. He is 23 years old. He has worked a sight harder than many university students to get where he is, he appreciates his position because he has worked so hard to get there. He is most certainly an Aircraft Engineer.
I have been in Civil Aviation for 35 years and have met one ex RAF Engineering Officer who has worked as a manager on the shop floor.
The only Degree holders apart from the Kingston graduates that I have met have not been hands on. Few of the Aircraft Maintenance Managers I have met have had a degree and many don't have an EASA Licence. On that basis, Civil Aviation industry Aircraft Maintenance in the UK is being run by a bunch of fitters.
Temps
Then there was Orville and Wilbur, Stephenson, Brunell, well they didn't have degrees, but they did rather well inspite of that lacking in their 'education'.
I know of a person who has just obtained his EASA B1 Licence, he did 2 years at College doing his BTEC, a 4 year Apprenticeship and has worked, without any assistance from tutors etc for the past three years to pass his B1. An excellent achievement? You bet! I met him in the hangar the other day and asked him what he had been doing over the past few days. He had replaced a CF6 Engine and a number of flying controls. After installation he had carried out rigging and function checks. On top of that he had also done a complex skin repair. On top of that he is supervising a Team of Engineers and mentoring a number of less experienced staff. He is 23 years old. He has worked a sight harder than many university students to get where he is, he appreciates his position because he has worked so hard to get there. He is most certainly an Aircraft Engineer.
I have been in Civil Aviation for 35 years and have met one ex RAF Engineering Officer who has worked as a manager on the shop floor.
The only Degree holders apart from the Kingston graduates that I have met have not been hands on. Few of the Aircraft Maintenance Managers I have met have had a degree and many don't have an EASA Licence. On that basis, Civil Aviation industry Aircraft Maintenance in the UK is being run by a bunch of fitters.
Temps