Are WSO going to change their Brevets?
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Biggus
it all started with storemen... err, sorry - suppliers.
and it's been downhill ever since really.
30+ years and I've only recently found out what 'HR' staff is/are! - admin.
Obvious really.
it all started with storemen... err, sorry - suppliers.
and it's been downhill ever since really.
30+ years and I've only recently found out what 'HR' staff is/are! - admin.
Obvious really.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Looking through my logbook, the one that said qualified in air navigation (doesn't that say rather more than 'navigator'?) I found one of my servicing certificates signed by OC TECH Wg.
Happy days.
Happy days.
PN and Tiger Mate
As has already been mentioned, we have a Tudor Crown, not a Queen's Crown
We do indeed, but (unless you are very, very old!
) it is not the one we wear as currently used on the badges or brevets at issue in this thread, which is the St Edwards's Crown, viz:
'The instruction that changed the design of representations of the British Crown in 1952 was HD 4947, the 667th Report of the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals.
"The Queen has seen HD 4946 [previous report of the committee] on the subject of the Royal Cypher and the designs of the representation of the crown. Her Majesty's wishes with regard to the design of representations of the crown where used with the Royal Cypher or otherwise, are as follows.
We do indeed, but (unless you are very, very old!
) it is not the one we wear as currently used on the badges or brevets at issue in this thread, which is the St Edwards's Crown, viz:'The instruction that changed the design of representations of the British Crown in 1952 was HD 4947, the 667th Report of the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals.
"The Queen has seen HD 4946 [previous report of the committee] on the subject of the Royal Cypher and the designs of the representation of the crown. Her Majesty's wishes with regard to the design of representations of the crown where used with the Royal Cypher or otherwise, are as follows.
- The Queen wishes the St Edward's Crown to take the place of the Tudor Crown in all future designs embodying a representation of the crown.
- Existing designs should not be changed unless or until it is necessary to do so. (Wherever, however, a design embodying the crown has for any reason to be changed, the St Edward's should be substituted for the Tudor Crown.)
- No unnecessary expense should be incurred in making the change and where alterations in existing designs would involve such expense it should be deferred.
- Her Majesty has no objection to two different designs of the crown (i.e. the existing design and the new design) being in use concurrently during the transitional period." '
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King’s/Queen’s Crowns
Apparently the 'Kings Crown' / 'Queens Crown' is not as clear cut as is generally believed, and is born of coincidental timing with Queenies Coronation. In short, one way or another we are eventually in for a gentleman monarchy, unless of cause the PC world demands sexual equality and Anne gets it, which in itself is quite possible, but a man in charge does not mean that the crown must change. As has already been mentioned, we have a Tudor Crown, not a Queens Crown.
St Edward’s Crown (the so-called Queen’s crown) had been used by all monarchs from the restoration of Charles II. The change only came when Victoria adopted the title Empress of India in the mid-nineteenth century, and it was thought that the Tudor crown (the So-called King’ crown) displayed a more imperial appearance. With the independence of India in 1947, and the loss of this title the use of an ‘imperial’ crown was no longer appropriate. The natural time to change was with the death of George VI when all the royal cyphers, symbols etc were changing from GRVI to ERII.
Here are 2x links that will explain all. As for the succession of Her Majesty by the next Monarch and what they use for their Royal Cypher; that will be up to them.
Crowns & Cyphers as used on badges & medals
https://www.postalmuseum.org/blog/ro...SAAEgIEl_D_BwE
Plus horror of horrors, this thread uses the dreaded “B-Word”. Just for the removal of all doubt, a Brevet is a certificate and a flying badge is a badge - or sometime commonly called your wings. You should get a certificate along with your wings at your presentation ceremony, the certificate is your brevet and the badge/wings is your flying badge.
Page 103 of the following link refers: https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documen...Journal-52.pdf
Crowns & Cyphers as used on badges & medals
https://www.postalmuseum.org/blog/ro...SAAEgIEl_D_BwE
Plus horror of horrors, this thread uses the dreaded “B-Word”. Just for the removal of all doubt, a Brevet is a certificate and a flying badge is a badge - or sometime commonly called your wings. You should get a certificate along with your wings at your presentation ceremony, the certificate is your brevet and the badge/wings is your flying badge.
Page 103 of the following link refers: https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documen...Journal-52.pdf
This also should help, posted elsewhere by Jackonicko
From the coronation of Edward VII (1902?) until 1953, military badges, flags, etc. bore a stylised and largely fictitious representation of the Tudor Crown (a crown which does not actually exist, since All Tudor regalia was destroyed after the English Civil War!).
Edward VII, who invented state pomp and pageantry as we know it today, regulated the shape of the Crown in iconography. The new standardised shape was originally called the Tudor crown because it was supposedly modelled on one worn by Henry VII, and it came to be known as the Imperial Crown because its image was standardised throughout the Empire. It has been said that the Tudor Crown's domed shape was chosen to make it more similar to the other European imperial crowns.
In 1952, Sir George Bellew, Garter King of Arms, persuaded the Royal Mint Advisory Committee, and the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals, that it would be more appropriate if the crown surmounting the Royal Cypher was a realistic representation of the actual Crown of England, rather than being a representation of a crown that did not actually exist. There may also have been some desire to remove the Imperial Crown from iconography to reflect the end of Empire and the start of Commonwealth.
It was subsequently announced that: "The Queen wishes the St Edward's Crown to take the place of the Tudor Crown in all future designs embodying a representation of the crown."
It was decided, however, that existing designs should not be changed unless or until it was necessary to do so, but that when a design embodying the crown had to be changed, the St Edward's Crown should be substituted for the Tudor Crown. It was laid down that no unnecessary expense should be incurred in making the change and where alterations in existing designs would involve such expense they should be deferred. It was stressed that Her Majesty had no objection to two different designs of the crown (i.e. the existing design and the new design) being used concurrently.
Thus current buttons, badges, etc. (though not all squadron badges) have the St Edward's Crown.
But this is simply the actual Crown - and not some 'female' or 'Queen's Crown', and this will be the crown that the next monarch will wear at their coronation, and which will therefore almost certainly be retained.
The idea that there is a "King's Crown" and a different "Queen's Crown" may be 'urban legend' and may be widely reported but it is simply wrong! The design just happened to change with the last change of monarch, which happened to be a change from King to Queen.
Edward VII, who invented state pomp and pageantry as we know it today, regulated the shape of the Crown in iconography. The new standardised shape was originally called the Tudor crown because it was supposedly modelled on one worn by Henry VII, and it came to be known as the Imperial Crown because its image was standardised throughout the Empire. It has been said that the Tudor Crown's domed shape was chosen to make it more similar to the other European imperial crowns.
In 1952, Sir George Bellew, Garter King of Arms, persuaded the Royal Mint Advisory Committee, and the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals, that it would be more appropriate if the crown surmounting the Royal Cypher was a realistic representation of the actual Crown of England, rather than being a representation of a crown that did not actually exist. There may also have been some desire to remove the Imperial Crown from iconography to reflect the end of Empire and the start of Commonwealth.
It was subsequently announced that: "The Queen wishes the St Edward's Crown to take the place of the Tudor Crown in all future designs embodying a representation of the crown."
It was decided, however, that existing designs should not be changed unless or until it was necessary to do so, but that when a design embodying the crown had to be changed, the St Edward's Crown should be substituted for the Tudor Crown. It was laid down that no unnecessary expense should be incurred in making the change and where alterations in existing designs would involve such expense they should be deferred. It was stressed that Her Majesty had no objection to two different designs of the crown (i.e. the existing design and the new design) being used concurrently.
Thus current buttons, badges, etc. (though not all squadron badges) have the St Edward's Crown.
But this is simply the actual Crown - and not some 'female' or 'Queen's Crown', and this will be the crown that the next monarch will wear at their coronation, and which will therefore almost certainly be retained.
The idea that there is a "King's Crown" and a different "Queen's Crown" may be 'urban legend' and may be widely reported but it is simply wrong! The design just happened to change with the last change of monarch, which happened to be a change from King to Queen.
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Quoting from Jackonicko (via Lima Julet): It was laid down that no unnecessary expense should be incurred in making the change and where alterations in existing designs would involve such expense they should be deferred. It was stressed that Her Majesty had no objection to two different designs of the crown (i.e. the existing design and the new design) being used concurrently.
When I joined BRNC Dartmouth in September 1973 we were issued with new stock battledress adorned with "King's" buttons. I still have it in a box, although I swear it has shrunk in storage!
When I joined BRNC Dartmouth in September 1973 we were issued with new stock battledress adorned with "King's" buttons. I still have it in a box, although I swear it has shrunk in storage!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Mabmac, that message never got to the RAF, or if it did was forgotten. Some 8 years after the Coronation we had the Tudor crowns and very smart they were. Then a couple of years on a new button was introduced. This was an identical design but a bigger button known as the high dome. Contrary to previous rule that change only took place on replacement, we were told to change out buttons. No 1s you could do yourself, 7 buttons per tunic, but great coats was a tailors job. There was no allowance for a button change.
