What's Happening with 801 Squadron?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: troon
Age: 61
Posts: 551
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What's Happening with 801 Squadron?
Hi To all
Asking this question 'cos things have gone rather quiet of late.
Is work progressing to get this Squadron up and running in it's own right or is there still a Naval Strike Wing? Been on the RN Webby and there really isn't anything there. Is there anybody out there in the know willing to spill the beans?
Ta
ATN
Asking this question 'cos things have gone rather quiet of late.
Is work progressing to get this Squadron up and running in it's own right or is there still a Naval Strike Wing? Been on the RN Webby and there really isn't anything there. Is there anybody out there in the know willing to spill the beans?Ta
ATN
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sunny Sussex
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Had a brief with Wings of 703 about a month ago. Because everything is now under the Crab system, squadrons need a certain number of QFIs before they can become operational. 801 do not have that certain number of QFIs, and so is not an operational squadron until it has them. So for now, 800 and 801 are pooled under Naval Strike Wing (NSW).
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Falmouth
Posts: 1,651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So, what happes to a front line squadron who (having had the required number of beefers) suddenly loses its required amount....does that Operational squadron then become non operational ?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
what happes to a front line squadron who (having had the required number of beefers) suddenly loses its required amount
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AIJH
Never heard that rule (maybe it is harrier specific) - but I can't believe that the number is any bigger than 1! Is naval pilot manning that bad? Anyone else ever heard of that "rule"?
Never heard that rule (maybe it is harrier specific) - but I can't believe that the number is any bigger than 1! Is naval pilot manning that bad? Anyone else ever heard of that "rule"?
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: All Bar One
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is the Naval Strike Wing a formal entity or just a convenient informal title for the dark blue element of the Harrier Force? Does it have its own people or does it just refer to RN personnel on one of the GR7/GR9 sqns?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: troon
Age: 61
Posts: 551
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Had a brief with Wings of 703 about a month ago. Because everything is now under the Crab system, squadrons need a certain number of QFIs before they can become operational. 801 do not have that certain number of QFIs, and so is not an operational squadron until it has them. So for now, 800 and 801 are pooled under Naval Strike Wing (NSW).
How many QFI's are on say an RN Merlin Squadron?
Please forgive my ignorance but it sounds like rules for the sake of having rules.
ATN
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Wenatchee, WA
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Due to the dastardly scheming of the Crabs the RN can't fully man their own squadrons. In fact they weren't able to fully man their SHar force for several years either (again due to dastardly Crab scheming). None of this has ever had anything at all to do with the RN's own recruitment and selection processes - it's always been the Crab's fault. In fact, the Crabs do nothing other than sit around all day plotting ways to undermine the RN.
One hypothesis could be that since the advent of JFH the RN have been consistently over-ambitious with their manpower projections because they're trying to hit far above their capable weight with future JCA sqn manning. You could also say that their bluff is being called and it would seem that they can't actually produce the bodies of the required experience and qualification either to man the cockpits, or to maintain the jets. Just a thought.
Single Seat, Single Engine, The Only Way To Fly
One hypothesis could be that since the advent of JFH the RN have been consistently over-ambitious with their manpower projections because they're trying to hit far above their capable weight with future JCA sqn manning. You could also say that their bluff is being called and it would seem that they can't actually produce the bodies of the required experience and qualification either to man the cockpits, or to maintain the jets. Just a thought.
Single Seat, Single Engine, The Only Way To Fly
Hmm.
I'm having problems avoiding saying: "Told you so."
You take an RAF Harrier Force that had no problem manning three squadrons with 13 aircraft each - and a pretty big OCU, and with loads of blokes temporarily away on instructional, ground and exchange tours....
and a RN Sea Harrier Force that was having some problems manning two much smaller (8 aircraft) squadrons and a much smaller OCU.
And you combine them.
Good so far.
But moving the Matelots from Somerset has some impact on their retention.
And you still try to get to a 50:50 structure
Still, at least that has an impact on the retention of the potential RAF Squadron execs from the three squadron force who won't get a slot when 50% of those positions will go to Naviators.
I've asked the question before, and no-one would answer.
Immediately before the merge, how many frontline (800 and 801) and 899 RN SHar pilots were there, and how many RAF exchange SHAR pilots? How many of each were QFIs/QWIs?
And at the same point in time how many RAF Harrier pilots were there (and RN exchange pilots with the Harrier GR force)? How many of them were QFIs and QWIs?
How far from 50:50 was the overall force?
I'm having problems avoiding saying: "Told you so."
You take an RAF Harrier Force that had no problem manning three squadrons with 13 aircraft each - and a pretty big OCU, and with loads of blokes temporarily away on instructional, ground and exchange tours....
and a RN Sea Harrier Force that was having some problems manning two much smaller (8 aircraft) squadrons and a much smaller OCU.
And you combine them.
Good so far.
But moving the Matelots from Somerset has some impact on their retention.
And you still try to get to a 50:50 structure
Still, at least that has an impact on the retention of the potential RAF Squadron execs from the three squadron force who won't get a slot when 50% of those positions will go to Naviators.
I've asked the question before, and no-one would answer.
Immediately before the merge, how many frontline (800 and 801) and 899 RN SHar pilots were there, and how many RAF exchange SHAR pilots? How many of each were QFIs/QWIs?
And at the same point in time how many RAF Harrier pilots were there (and RN exchange pilots with the Harrier GR force)? How many of them were QFIs and QWIs?
How far from 50:50 was the overall force?
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 2,132
Received 28 Likes
on
17 Posts
Jackonicko - I'm sure someone within the Harrier force also expressed the same concerns as you but no doubt the "la, la, la, not listening" rebuttal was used.
Seems to be quite a popular management style within the RAF at the moment.
Seems to be quite a popular management style within the RAF at the moment.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Omnipotent
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From speaking to someone on the NSW, the rumour that the RN didn't have enough pilots to man both Squadrons was not true, they had just the right amount spread throughout the Force, however it was realised that they didn't have the right number of QFI's (not only to man the OCU but also to fill the front line position). The RN didn't run the same system in the past, they kept their QFI's specifically on the OCU and checks were done there rather than on the front line, so it was a different system.
When the squadrons were to stand up, it dawned on some people higher up that the RN harrier force would deplete the RAF squadrons of over a quarter of their experienced middle management, and so everyone would be in the same dwang! So the wing concept was born (even though it is the desired model for JSF!! So it should be no surprise) and RN pilots are spread about the force and RAF pilots are on the NSW.....with 801 and 800 Sqns sort of existing under the Strike Wing mantle. He says it works fine.
When the squadrons were to stand up, it dawned on some people higher up that the RN harrier force would deplete the RAF squadrons of over a quarter of their experienced middle management, and so everyone would be in the same dwang! So the wing concept was born (even though it is the desired model for JSF!! So it should be no surprise) and RN pilots are spread about the force and RAF pilots are on the NSW.....with 801 and 800 Sqns sort of existing under the Strike Wing mantle. He says it works fine.
But moving the Matelots from Somerset has some impact on their retention.
Nah! Surely Not? Who could have predicated that? Apart from this PPRuNe thread from early 2002: The FAA is bankrupt - WAFUs read this, and of course the Sea Jet thread and other SHAR threads.
Or articles in the Telegraph:
Lack of combat ready pilots grounds Navy's Sea Harriers
Harrier pilots threaten to quit
The loss of the fighter role is unlikely to have helped retention either.
Nah! Surely Not? Who could have predicated that? Apart from this PPRuNe thread from early 2002: The FAA is bankrupt - WAFUs read this, and of course the Sea Jet thread and other SHAR threads.
Or articles in the Telegraph:
Lack of combat ready pilots grounds Navy's Sea Harriers
Harrier pilots threaten to quit
The loss of the fighter role is unlikely to have helped retention either.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Lincs
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Moving Naval pilots from Somerset to Lincolnshire. Outrageous! Fancy joining a military force and having to get posted somewhere else.
Good job 51 Sqn didn't do the same when they moved from Wyton. Or those hardened RAFG warriors when that closed down.
Good job 51 Sqn didn't do the same when they moved from Wyton. Or those hardened RAFG warriors when that closed down.
Maybe it wasn't just the move from Somerset to Lincolnshire? There were other changes for people to contend with as well.
What about the change of culture and basically being part of the RAF organisation?
Or the change from being a fighter pilot to being a ground attack one?
Or the change from being carrier aviators to spending most of their time ashore, and deploying as part of Strike/Air Command, with carrier related stuff being secondary?
I suspect for some it may have been a combination of the above more than any single factor. I certainly can see why some may have been tempted to jump ship.
What about the change of culture and basically being part of the RAF organisation?
Or the change from being a fighter pilot to being a ground attack one?
Or the change from being carrier aviators to spending most of their time ashore, and deploying as part of Strike/Air Command, with carrier related stuff being secondary?
I suspect for some it may have been a combination of the above more than any single factor. I certainly can see why some may have been tempted to jump ship.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
And wives, families, friends?
Some jobs are static. At an airbase in Lincolnshire some people serve their entire careers at one station with possibly an odd tour away.
One Air Marshal never left Scotland.
I believe the Navy was renowned for static basing.
Mobility may be an essential part of service life and part of the T&C but if a particular pattern of stability emerges one's expectation change.
Certainly the Navy never had any expectation of serving in the middle of England, Bath excepted.
Some jobs are static. At an airbase in Lincolnshire some people serve their entire careers at one station with possibly an odd tour away.
One Air Marshal never left Scotland.
I believe the Navy was renowned for static basing.
Mobility may be an essential part of service life and part of the T&C but if a particular pattern of stability emerges one's expectation change.
Certainly the Navy never had any expectation of serving in the middle of England, Bath excepted.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Lincs
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Clearly wives and families are an issue. But right or wrong, we live in changing times and the military cannot afford to retain everything they wish. I've had at least one dreadful posting from a social and professional point of view. You sign on the dotted line and you have to suck it up.
