Heading mall-wards?
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Myself, Mrs WM and the little wokka's were just sitting down to Sunday dinner at Odius as many of the heli's overflew us, still in formation.
Nice to see! Well done all, whatever colour!
WM
Phil R - Without wanting any rants in my inbox, even you must agree that the BBC coverage was pretty dire?
Nice to see! Well done all, whatever colour!
WM
Phil R - Without wanting any rants in my inbox, even you must agree that the BBC coverage was pretty dire?
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then on a final note bleated that "its really all about the navy you know" - basically letting all know he was somewhat irritated that the RAF appeared to be taking part at all.
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Believe maybe the Harrier would have a worse gliding ability then the hawk! So if anything went wrong the hawk could possibly make the thames, the harrier couldn't.
Anyway your right the coverage was a sh**e as you come to expect from the BBC, and was reinforced by the idiot telling everyone that the dominie was used as a training a/c for ALL pilots!
The bloody tw*t
Anyway your right the coverage was a sh**e as you come to expect from the BBC, and was reinforced by the idiot telling everyone that the dominie was used as a training a/c for ALL pilots!
The bloody tw*t
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What I remember on the SHAR incident was
"Of course there are no SHARs taking part as they have a single engine and aren't allowed over London"
So... not the fact that they are out of service?
"Of course there are no SHARs taking part as they have a single engine and aren't allowed over London"
So... not the fact that they are out of service?
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Believe maybe the Harrier would have a worse gliding ability then the hawk! So if anything went wrong the hawk could possibly make the thames, the harrier couldn't.
Anyway your right the coverage was a sh**e as you come to expect from the BBC, and was reinforced by the idiot telling everyone that the dominie was used as a training a/c for ALL pilots!
The bloody tw*t
Apologies for the lack of cut paste etc
Absolutely right. Im sure the Dominie link was the Sqn number plate - The Victors of 55 were used throughout the Falklands Campaign hence the flypast. Nothing to do with Rear Crew training - pilot training - good heavens
"BBC - Its what we do" Talk complete and utter nonsense if you ask me. Can I have my licence fee back
Anyway your right the coverage was a sh**e as you come to expect from the BBC, and was reinforced by the idiot telling everyone that the dominie was used as a training a/c for ALL pilots!
The bloody tw*t
Apologies for the lack of cut paste etc
Absolutely right. Im sure the Dominie link was the Sqn number plate - The Victors of 55 were used throughout the Falklands Campaign hence the flypast. Nothing to do with Rear Crew training - pilot training - good heavens
"BBC - Its what we do" Talk complete and utter nonsense if you ask me. Can I have my licence fee back
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In a soft Irish Accent
Hello and welcome to BBC Points of view. It seems that some of our viewers have been left a little disappointed with the Beeb's coverage of this weekends flypast's by by our mighty Armed Forces. One viewer wrote
Well that's true Mr Syncro single. You see they are nasty, noisy things and we are only there for the free beer and food afterwards. Whilst another wrote
Well actually the commentator is a Polish worker on a visa from Warsaw. You are probably right about him being clueless as he is a plumber by trade and was sent to us by the Job centre. Whist Mr Scotthys was particularly upset about Adalbert's commentary style and called him a bloody t**t. Well Mr Scottyhs I can assure you that Adalbert was not bleeding in anyway during the commentary. Well that's about all for this week. Any other comments can be directed to us here at BBC points of view. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbpointsofview/ Oh and BTW Humour you cannot have your licence fee back you stingy person.
Well after watching the poor coverage of the Queens Birthday flypast along with the coverage of the FI fly past, I am convinced that nobody at the BBC cares about the flying side of the days.
Clueless - where do they get these people?!
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My daughter was over the moon today. Whilst walking back from the shop we saw the helicopter element flying towards London, then she sat with me whilst I watched the parade and flypast and then the helicopter element passed directly over the top of our MQ on the way back to Odiham. Oh and even at 4 years old her aircraft recognition is far too good to work for the BBC.
From here on the ground it looked very tight, especially the Junglies.
Good work everyone.
From here on the ground it looked very tight, especially the Junglies.
Good work everyone.
Harriers over London
Laugh? I nearly fell off my chair when the Beeb commentator said that there were no Sea Harriers in the flypast because they were 'unreliable and were not allowed to fly over London'
Clueless - where do they get these people?!
Clueless - where do they get these people?!
Why is there no faith in the Harrier as a single engine aircraft? is it as unreliable as stated?
If there is a problem with single engines how can the Reds continue to fly.
If there is a problem with single engines how can the Reds continue to fly.
They also stated that the single-engined Harrier was not "trustworthy" enough to be allowed to fly over London! Out of curiosity why are Hawks allowed but Harriers aren't? Glide range?
Notes to Editors
1. Harriers will not take part in the flypast over London because single engine aircraft without the capability to glide in the event of an engine failure are not permitted to fly low over central London. Were they to take part, they would have to fly too high to be part of the display. Harriers will, however, take part in a flypast at Pangbourne College on 14 Jun 07 in the presence of Her Majesty The Queen.
1. Harriers will not take part in the flypast over London because single engine aircraft without the capability to glide in the event of an engine failure are not permitted to fly low over central London. Were they to take part, they would have to fly too high to be part of the display. Harriers will, however, take part in a flypast at Pangbourne College on 14 Jun 07 in the presence of Her Majesty The Queen.
Gentleman Aviator
single engine over London
It's all elfansafety innit!!
I recall an aged spec aircrew sqn ldr who once worked for me telling tales of the Coronation flypast (600+ aircraft?) in which he partook in a Meatbox.
Biggest problem he related were the Sabres (IIRC) who had many flameout problems ......
....... on more than one occasion they heard on the formation freq:
"Mayday - Sabre c/s flameout, leaving the formation"
to be fairly swiftly followed by:
"Sabre c/s cancel Mayday - successful relight, rejoining formation!"
.... an yer tell that to't young folk of terday.......
But they probably had Richard Dimbleby doing the commentary..
Sorry for the thread drift
It's all elfansafety innit!!
I recall an aged spec aircrew sqn ldr who once worked for me telling tales of the Coronation flypast (600+ aircraft?) in which he partook in a Meatbox.
Biggest problem he related were the Sabres (IIRC) who had many flameout problems ......
....... on more than one occasion they heard on the formation freq:
"Mayday - Sabre c/s flameout, leaving the formation"
to be fairly swiftly followed by:
"Sabre c/s cancel Mayday - successful relight, rejoining formation!"
.... an yer tell that to't young folk of terday.......
But they probably had Richard Dimbleby doing the commentary..
Sorry for the thread drift
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Was is just my imagination, or did I hear at some stage during the afternoon, losses of 16 ships and 11 helicopters being given?
I can only remember 5 ships - Sheffield, Coventry, Ardent , Antelope and Atlantic Conveyor and 4 helicopters - 3 Chinooks on Atlantic Conveyor and a Gazelle.
The Falklands provided one of the better acronyms -STUFT, as in 'Ships Taken UP from Trade'
Were there any Ppruners present on Sunday?
I can only remember 5 ships - Sheffield, Coventry, Ardent , Antelope and Atlantic Conveyor and 4 helicopters - 3 Chinooks on Atlantic Conveyor and a Gazelle.
The Falklands provided one of the better acronyms -STUFT, as in 'Ships Taken UP from Trade'
Were there any Ppruners present on Sunday?
Apparently the unfortunate Rear Admiral, trying to keep in step with Andrew's shuffling was:
Rear Admiral Chris Parry, whose Wessex from HMS ANTRIM disabled the Argentine submarine ARA SANTA FE with two depth charges at the start of the Falklands conflict. Too badly damaged to submerge, SANTA FE ended up beaching in Grytviken harbour after further attacks with torpedo, machine gun, and missiles by helos from HMS PLYMOUTH (Wasp), HMS BRILLIANT (Lynx) and HMS ENDURANCE (two Wasps).
Interesting to see that John Nott was also on the VIP stand....disgrace, if he had got his way, we would never have got the falklands back
The Nott review confirmed the decision to proceed with the purchase of the Trident system from the USA to replace Polaris as the UK's strategic nuclear deterrent.[70] The Territorial Army and the other reserve forces were to be merged and rebuilt to meet the requirement for home defence,[71] which was also to be reinforced by a new fighter aircraft (eventually the Eurofighter programme).[72] The British Army of the Rhine was to be held at the level of 55,000 but to be re-equipped.[73] The main cuts under the Nott review were to fall on the Navy which, although it took on the Trident submarines, was to lose around one fifth of their 60 destroyers and frigates. Despite the supposed abandonment of the carrier programme, three so-called 'through deck cruisers' had been built, designated as the Invincible Class. One of these three carriers and the two amphibious ships Fearless and Intrepid were also to be cut.[74] Out-of-area, or expeditionary, warfare capacity was therefore to be further significantly reduced. With Trident, greater reliance was once again to be placed on the strategic nuclear deterrent as the counter to the Soviet threat (together with an increased submarine fleet),[75] and the overall force structure emphasised the UK's increasing expectation of acting only as part of NATO for overseas expeditionary operations
All very short sighted looking at the comments regarding no expeditionary operations....Iraq, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan....what's next.
Rear Admiral Chris Parry, whose Wessex from HMS ANTRIM disabled the Argentine submarine ARA SANTA FE with two depth charges at the start of the Falklands conflict. Too badly damaged to submerge, SANTA FE ended up beaching in Grytviken harbour after further attacks with torpedo, machine gun, and missiles by helos from HMS PLYMOUTH (Wasp), HMS BRILLIANT (Lynx) and HMS ENDURANCE (two Wasps).
Interesting to see that John Nott was also on the VIP stand....disgrace, if he had got his way, we would never have got the falklands back
The Nott review confirmed the decision to proceed with the purchase of the Trident system from the USA to replace Polaris as the UK's strategic nuclear deterrent.[70] The Territorial Army and the other reserve forces were to be merged and rebuilt to meet the requirement for home defence,[71] which was also to be reinforced by a new fighter aircraft (eventually the Eurofighter programme).[72] The British Army of the Rhine was to be held at the level of 55,000 but to be re-equipped.[73] The main cuts under the Nott review were to fall on the Navy which, although it took on the Trident submarines, was to lose around one fifth of their 60 destroyers and frigates. Despite the supposed abandonment of the carrier programme, three so-called 'through deck cruisers' had been built, designated as the Invincible Class. One of these three carriers and the two amphibious ships Fearless and Intrepid were also to be cut.[74] Out-of-area, or expeditionary, warfare capacity was therefore to be further significantly reduced. With Trident, greater reliance was once again to be placed on the strategic nuclear deterrent as the counter to the Soviet threat (together with an increased submarine fleet),[75] and the overall force structure emphasised the UK's increasing expectation of acting only as part of NATO for overseas expeditionary operations
All very short sighted looking at the comments regarding no expeditionary operations....Iraq, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan....what's next.
Kolibear,
I think the helicopter losses were more like 21 - according to "Falklands - The Air War" which was published by Guild Publishing in London in 1986. This figure probably includes accidents in theatre as well as combat losses (I can't yet be bothered to look up the detail).
I think the helicopter losses were more like 21 - according to "Falklands - The Air War" which was published by Guild Publishing in London in 1986. This figure probably includes accidents in theatre as well as combat losses (I can't yet be bothered to look up the detail).
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Give praise where praise is due
Guys, there is a heck of a lot of whinging about how poor the BBC commentary was and why was the Dominie in the flypast, but what seems to have been forgotten was what a wonderful spectacle the whole event was!
I was there, and it was obvious to me that the events of the day took a huge amount of organisation and execution, not only by the BBC etc. but also from a lot of uniformed personnel.
Despite the political posturing regarding who and what should fly on the day, the event was topped off by a great flypast and I applaud the organiser for making it happen. Well done Mike!
I was there, and it was obvious to me that the events of the day took a huge amount of organisation and execution, not only by the BBC etc. but also from a lot of uniformed personnel.
Despite the political posturing regarding who and what should fly on the day, the event was topped off by a great flypast and I applaud the organiser for making it happen. Well done Mike!
Bring back RB
Is it wishful thinking to believe that, had Raymond Baxter been with us, the BBC's coverage would have been immesurably better?
I did not actaully see it, but watched the event from a vantage point in E London. I noticed that the boys from Odius were circling in their Essex box for a good 20 minutes. I realise that another tonne of Avtur fumes is unlikely to damage the brain of your average Essex boy, but why was your timing so cautious?
Skua
I did not actaully see it, but watched the event from a vantage point in E London. I noticed that the boys from Odius were circling in their Essex box for a good 20 minutes. I realise that another tonne of Avtur fumes is unlikely to damage the brain of your average Essex boy, but why was your timing so cautious?
Skua
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Were there not a load of Wessii aboard the Atlantic Conveyor aswell as the Chinooks? There was also the Navy Sea King which went down with the SAS troops (and an RAF guy) aboard.
I was there yesterday and it was a tremendous event which was well organised, well executed and had the right tone. It was humbling to chat to the veterans and to see them meeting old mates they'd not seen for many years. When the groups on Birdcage Walk were called forward to take up positions before marching on to Horseguards, they all ambled forward. Not so the RAF contingent, who marched to the spontaneous applause of the crowd, damn impressive sight guys and gals, well done.
Finally, I thought that 29 Sqn deployed to Ascension with F.4s, hence their inclusion?
I was there yesterday and it was a tremendous event which was well organised, well executed and had the right tone. It was humbling to chat to the veterans and to see them meeting old mates they'd not seen for many years. When the groups on Birdcage Walk were called forward to take up positions before marching on to Horseguards, they all ambled forward. Not so the RAF contingent, who marched to the spontaneous applause of the crowd, damn impressive sight guys and gals, well done.
Finally, I thought that 29 Sqn deployed to Ascension with F.4s, hence their inclusion?
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Harrier vs Hawk rules
Believe that ACAS's decision was a fair one to not allow a Harrier down the Mall, for [mainly] the following reason:
If a Hawk suffers a catastrophic engine mechanical failure (i.e. runs to a complete grinding halt in a v short space of time) it can glide, but also as the hydraulic pressure drops in the system (which it will as the pilot manoeuvres the aircraft), the Ram Air Turbine (RAT) will deploy and spin up to allow sufficient control authority to keep turning the aircraft towards a safe open area (The Serpentine?!!!) before he/she ejects.
A Harrier does not have a RAT, therefore if the above situation arises the controls "could" possibly freeze at any point after the donk goes. This "could" prevent the daring pilot from aiming his/her aircraft into a safe place with inevitably disastrous results.....doesn't even bare thinking about and so is probably too risky. It has nothing to do with engine / aircraft reliability IMHO. Oh, and the gliding performance as intimated in previous threads is not as good as a hawk.
No airworthy CAA-registered Sea Harrier = No Sea Harrier flypast. Good to see the senior Navy FAA guys reinforcing the point that "its all about the Navy though, you know". Complete horse-sh**! Seem to remember a certain 1(Fighter) Squadron, under the command of Wg Cdr P T Squire DFC RAF, receiving Battle Honours for the South Atlantic for many great missions flown. Plenty of RAF guys flying SHARs too as well. It was all about projection of UK Military Force on the other side of the world back in '82. We'll never do it again though .....
BD
If a Hawk suffers a catastrophic engine mechanical failure (i.e. runs to a complete grinding halt in a v short space of time) it can glide, but also as the hydraulic pressure drops in the system (which it will as the pilot manoeuvres the aircraft), the Ram Air Turbine (RAT) will deploy and spin up to allow sufficient control authority to keep turning the aircraft towards a safe open area (The Serpentine?!!!) before he/she ejects.
A Harrier does not have a RAT, therefore if the above situation arises the controls "could" possibly freeze at any point after the donk goes. This "could" prevent the daring pilot from aiming his/her aircraft into a safe place with inevitably disastrous results.....doesn't even bare thinking about and so is probably too risky. It has nothing to do with engine / aircraft reliability IMHO. Oh, and the gliding performance as intimated in previous threads is not as good as a hawk.
No airworthy CAA-registered Sea Harrier = No Sea Harrier flypast. Good to see the senior Navy FAA guys reinforcing the point that "its all about the Navy though, you know". Complete horse-sh**! Seem to remember a certain 1(Fighter) Squadron, under the command of Wg Cdr P T Squire DFC RAF, receiving Battle Honours for the South Atlantic for many great missions flown. Plenty of RAF guys flying SHARs too as well. It was all about projection of UK Military Force on the other side of the world back in '82. We'll never do it again though .....
BD
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skua, might have had something to do with the fact the parade was late being marched up the mall. Probably something to do with Prince Andrew's awful attempt at marching.
But i think i remember hearing they were holding off so everyone was in place for the fly past!
But i think i remember hearing they were holding off so everyone was in place for the fly past!
