Anzac Day
Brian Abraham wrote " In 1934 Atatürk wrote a tribute to those killed at Gallipoli and is inscribed on a Memorial at Anzac Cove
THOSE HEROES THAT SHED THEIR BLOOD
AND LOST THEIR LIVES... YOU ARE
NOW LYING IN THE SOIL OF A FRIENDLY
COUNTRY. THEREFORE REST IN PEACE.
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE
JOHNNIES AND MEHMETS TO US
WHERE THEY LIE SIDE BY SIDE HERE IN
THIS COUNTRY OF OURS... YOU, THE
MOTHERS, WHO SENT THEIR SONS FROM
FARAWAY COUNTRIES WIPE AWAY YOUR
TEARS; YOUR SONS ARE NOW LYING IN
OUR BOSOM AND ARE IN PEACE. AFTER
HAVING LOST THEIR LIVES ON THIS LAND
THEY HAVE BECOME OUR SONS AS WELL."
These same remarkably generous words of Kemal Atatürk are inscribed on the Ataturk Memorial in Wellington at the top of a steep and windswept hill rising from Cook Strait.
The terrain is said to be very similar to Gallipoli. A beautiful yet poignant reminder of so many deaths so far from home.
The memorial itself is about 200m south of the Google Maps reference for "Ataturk Park, Wellington, NZ".
THOSE HEROES THAT SHED THEIR BLOOD
AND LOST THEIR LIVES... YOU ARE
NOW LYING IN THE SOIL OF A FRIENDLY
COUNTRY. THEREFORE REST IN PEACE.
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE
JOHNNIES AND MEHMETS TO US
WHERE THEY LIE SIDE BY SIDE HERE IN
THIS COUNTRY OF OURS... YOU, THE
MOTHERS, WHO SENT THEIR SONS FROM
FARAWAY COUNTRIES WIPE AWAY YOUR
TEARS; YOUR SONS ARE NOW LYING IN
OUR BOSOM AND ARE IN PEACE. AFTER
HAVING LOST THEIR LIVES ON THIS LAND
THEY HAVE BECOME OUR SONS AS WELL."
These same remarkably generous words of Kemal Atatürk are inscribed on the Ataturk Memorial in Wellington at the top of a steep and windswept hill rising from Cook Strait.
The terrain is said to be very similar to Gallipoli. A beautiful yet poignant reminder of so many deaths so far from home.
The memorial itself is about 200m south of the Google Maps reference for "Ataturk Park, Wellington, NZ".
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Anzac Day
Cumbrian Fell, I feel you have missed the mark with your comments. I was actively involved with the UK planning of the ANZAC commemorations on the Gallipoli peninsula for 3 years and was very fortunate to attend the 2005 (90th Anniversary) events. I saw no evidence of Aussies or Kiwis drinking to excess or the carnival atmosphere you speak of. What I did see were 20,000 visitors of all ages, the vast majority of whom were Aussies, there to pay homage not just to their dead countrymen but to all those who had fallen, regardless of their nationality or beliefs.
It is also not true to suggest that the contribution of some nations have been "airbrushed out". Throughout the 2-day programme, Services of Remembrance are conducted at the Australian, New Zealand, British, French and Turkish cemetries. In 2005, amongst the thousands who attended these services, were the Australian, New Zealand and Turkish prime ministers. The Prince of Wales represented the British people and it is interesting to note that he received a resounding welcome at Lone Pine. Sadly, the British government seemed to take the Prince's attendance as a get out and only sent a middle ranking minister.
As for Aussie and Kiwi youngsters knowing little about other events, what nation's youngsters do? I would suggest that we should applaud the fact that the youth of Australia and New Zealand make the journey to Gallipoli, which believe me, is no picnic site in April. The largest body of British youth were the sailors from HMS Chatham, who were spendid throughout the 2 days.
For anyone interested in attending the commemorations at Gallipoli itself, let me say that you will find it unforgettable. ANZAC Cove at 0500 on the 25th, as the sun rises and floodlights the scene showing the Turkish, Australian, British and French warships sitting silently in the bay, is a spiritual experience. Although there are thousands banked around the Cove, a natural amphitheatre carved out by the winds and rain, the silence is such that you could hear a butterfly's heart beating.
Ali Barber, you hit the nail my friend - humble is the word.
It is also not true to suggest that the contribution of some nations have been "airbrushed out". Throughout the 2-day programme, Services of Remembrance are conducted at the Australian, New Zealand, British, French and Turkish cemetries. In 2005, amongst the thousands who attended these services, were the Australian, New Zealand and Turkish prime ministers. The Prince of Wales represented the British people and it is interesting to note that he received a resounding welcome at Lone Pine. Sadly, the British government seemed to take the Prince's attendance as a get out and only sent a middle ranking minister.
As for Aussie and Kiwi youngsters knowing little about other events, what nation's youngsters do? I would suggest that we should applaud the fact that the youth of Australia and New Zealand make the journey to Gallipoli, which believe me, is no picnic site in April. The largest body of British youth were the sailors from HMS Chatham, who were spendid throughout the 2 days.
For anyone interested in attending the commemorations at Gallipoli itself, let me say that you will find it unforgettable. ANZAC Cove at 0500 on the 25th, as the sun rises and floodlights the scene showing the Turkish, Australian, British and French warships sitting silently in the bay, is a spiritual experience. Although there are thousands banked around the Cove, a natural amphitheatre carved out by the winds and rain, the silence is such that you could hear a butterfly's heart beating.
Ali Barber, you hit the nail my friend - humble is the word.
Grandpa Aerotart
I guess they're all gone now...I think Australia's last WW1 Vet died in the last few years...our last Gallipoli Vet quite a few years before that.
But growing up, as I did, in the 60s and 70s in Australia they were still extant in huge numbers...they were not even particularly old...most in their late 60s early 70s...of course the WW2 and Korean Vets were our fathers and our older brothers and cousins were in Vietnam.
Certainly in those days it was not unusual in Australia for the old gent next door or two doors down the street to be a WW1 Vet and many were at Gallipoli.
Society in Australia in the 60s and 70s was a more close knit thing so neighbours often spent considerable time together...many were the dinners where a Gallipoli/Western Front vet who lived two houses away was our guest...a Lighthorseman who charged the guns at Beersheba (last successful horse cavalry charge in history?) was also a neighbour.
Edit: I just went a googling Australian Lighthorse and found this.
It was not easy for this excited teenager to get them talking but on odd occassions they would...spine chilling stuff from very modest men. Now as
I sit in a glass cockpit jet flying (often over the Sinai area and Gallipoli Peninsular) in a push button 21st Century I almost find it impossible to believe I once knew an old man who rode against machine guns and cannon in a horse cavalry charge...it just boggles the mind and compresses history in an amazing way.
I once spent a week as a guest of the extended family of my best mate at school in a little town between Canberra and the coast in the early 70s. We were picked up in Canberra and driven there by my mates uncle who had recently retired...a WW1 vet. We spent two weeks with this gentle, but incredibly tough, old man while he taught us city kids to ride, shoot, trap etc...he could open a rabbit trap with one hand...we rode horses up into the hills south of the valley one day and he showed us where he lived after returning from the war...a bark hut he built at the end of a track in a remote but very beautiful valley...an old model T ford rusting away beside it.
He had gone up there after returning from France and stayed there alone for nearly 20 years...rarely venturing into town for a few supplies. He eventually worked through his demons and rejoined society, got married and had children. We spent a couple of days up there camping out, hunting and just sitting around an open fire at night and talking...35 years ago now....just magic.
Kids these days don't get the exposure we did so they are less well informed...but then 5 years ago when I was based in Singapore the Australian International School, which my then 13 year old was attending, organised for some Australian Changi prison/Burma railway vets to visit the school and talk to the children on Anzac Day...it made a pretty positive impression on my daughter. That night they were interviewed and filmed walking around the old part of the prison...she watched with rapt attention saying "I met them today...they were really nice men..and so brave"
I don't think the vets would be that put out by the seeming lack of intimate knowledge of the current generation...I think they would say they fought so that future generations would not need to know to much.
But growing up, as I did, in the 60s and 70s in Australia they were still extant in huge numbers...they were not even particularly old...most in their late 60s early 70s...of course the WW2 and Korean Vets were our fathers and our older brothers and cousins were in Vietnam.
Certainly in those days it was not unusual in Australia for the old gent next door or two doors down the street to be a WW1 Vet and many were at Gallipoli.
Society in Australia in the 60s and 70s was a more close knit thing so neighbours often spent considerable time together...many were the dinners where a Gallipoli/Western Front vet who lived two houses away was our guest...a Lighthorseman who charged the guns at Beersheba (last successful horse cavalry charge in history?) was also a neighbour.
Edit: I just went a googling Australian Lighthorse and found this.
1630: The 4th and 12th Australian Light Horse Regiments drew up behind a ridge. From the crest, Beerhseba was in full view. The course lay down a long, slight slope which was bare of cover. Between them and the town lay the enemy defences. The 4th was on the right; the 12th was on the left.
They rode with bayonets in hand. Each drew up on a squadron frontage. Every man knew that only a wild, desperate charge could seize Beerhseba before dark.
They moved off at the trot, deploying at once into artillery formation, with 5 metres between horsemen. Almost at once the pace quickened to a gallop. Once direction was given, the lead squadrons pressed forward. The 11th Australian Light Horse Regiment and the Yeomanry followed at the trot in reserve.
The Turks opened fire with shrapnel. Machine guns fired against the lead squadrons. The Royal Horse Artillery got their range and soon had them out of action. The Turkish riflemen fired, horses were hit, but the charge was not checked. The Lighthorsemen drove in their spurs; they rode for victory and they rode for Australia. The bewildered enemy failed to adjust their sights and soon their fire was passing harmlessly overhead. The 4th took the trenches; the enemy soon surrendered.
The 12th rode through a gap and on into the town. Their was a bitter fight. Some enemy surrendered; others fled and were pursued into the Judean Hills. In less than an hour it was over; the enemy was finally beaten.
From his headquarters, Chauvel had watched the battle develop. He saw the New Zealanders swarming the Tel; on their right the 9th and 10th LH Regiment were trotting in pursuit under shrapnel. On the Wadi the 2nd and 3rd LH Regiments were pressing forward in their attempt to take the town from the east. The Royal Horse Artillery were firing in support. Then over the ridge rode the 4th and 12th . . . shrapnel . . . the signal to charge! Not for almost an hour did Chauvel learn that Beersheba had been won.
Then disaster. The 9th and 10th in pursuit were bombed by a lone German aircraft; they suffered heavy casualties. The Desert Mounted Corps watered at the wells of the patriarchs and in the pool. For days, the charge was the talk of the camps and messes.
The Australian Light Horse had galloped into history.
They rode with bayonets in hand. Each drew up on a squadron frontage. Every man knew that only a wild, desperate charge could seize Beerhseba before dark.
They moved off at the trot, deploying at once into artillery formation, with 5 metres between horsemen. Almost at once the pace quickened to a gallop. Once direction was given, the lead squadrons pressed forward. The 11th Australian Light Horse Regiment and the Yeomanry followed at the trot in reserve.
The Turks opened fire with shrapnel. Machine guns fired against the lead squadrons. The Royal Horse Artillery got their range and soon had them out of action. The Turkish riflemen fired, horses were hit, but the charge was not checked. The Lighthorsemen drove in their spurs; they rode for victory and they rode for Australia. The bewildered enemy failed to adjust their sights and soon their fire was passing harmlessly overhead. The 4th took the trenches; the enemy soon surrendered.
The 12th rode through a gap and on into the town. Their was a bitter fight. Some enemy surrendered; others fled and were pursued into the Judean Hills. In less than an hour it was over; the enemy was finally beaten.
From his headquarters, Chauvel had watched the battle develop. He saw the New Zealanders swarming the Tel; on their right the 9th and 10th LH Regiment were trotting in pursuit under shrapnel. On the Wadi the 2nd and 3rd LH Regiments were pressing forward in their attempt to take the town from the east. The Royal Horse Artillery were firing in support. Then over the ridge rode the 4th and 12th . . . shrapnel . . . the signal to charge! Not for almost an hour did Chauvel learn that Beersheba had been won.
Then disaster. The 9th and 10th in pursuit were bombed by a lone German aircraft; they suffered heavy casualties. The Desert Mounted Corps watered at the wells of the patriarchs and in the pool. For days, the charge was the talk of the camps and messes.
The Australian Light Horse had galloped into history.
I sit in a glass cockpit jet flying (often over the Sinai area and Gallipoli Peninsular) in a push button 21st Century I almost find it impossible to believe I once knew an old man who rode against machine guns and cannon in a horse cavalry charge...it just boggles the mind and compresses history in an amazing way.
I once spent a week as a guest of the extended family of my best mate at school in a little town between Canberra and the coast in the early 70s. We were picked up in Canberra and driven there by my mates uncle who had recently retired...a WW1 vet. We spent two weeks with this gentle, but incredibly tough, old man while he taught us city kids to ride, shoot, trap etc...he could open a rabbit trap with one hand...we rode horses up into the hills south of the valley one day and he showed us where he lived after returning from the war...a bark hut he built at the end of a track in a remote but very beautiful valley...an old model T ford rusting away beside it.
He had gone up there after returning from France and stayed there alone for nearly 20 years...rarely venturing into town for a few supplies. He eventually worked through his demons and rejoined society, got married and had children. We spent a couple of days up there camping out, hunting and just sitting around an open fire at night and talking...35 years ago now....just magic.
Kids these days don't get the exposure we did so they are less well informed...but then 5 years ago when I was based in Singapore the Australian International School, which my then 13 year old was attending, organised for some Australian Changi prison/Burma railway vets to visit the school and talk to the children on Anzac Day...it made a pretty positive impression on my daughter. That night they were interviewed and filmed walking around the old part of the prison...she watched with rapt attention saying "I met them today...they were really nice men..and so brave"
I don't think the vets would be that put out by the seeming lack of intimate knowledge of the current generation...I think they would say they fought so that future generations would not need to know to much.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 16th Apr 2007 at 12:42.
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Moral relativism
Brian Abraham,
I am well aware of the 'nation making' nature of Gallipoli and the casualties inflicted on the Kiwi troops (Lt Col Chris Pugsley's book 'Gallipoli' is a particular good account of the New Zealand involvment - Pugsley, by the way, is a lecturer at RMA Sandhurst). I have also, on two occasions, been invited by MFAT to lay wreaths on ANZAC day at obscure Commonwealth Cemetaries. But whether the casualty rate is 1/100, 10/100 or 20/100, there should be no moral relativism to death on the battlefield. However, if you were to read most Australian tomes on the Dardanelles campaign, UK and French casualties hardly rate a mention.
Again, this morning, I attended a repatriation ceremony in my particular TOA and it was intensly moving. Whether it was one young man or ten carried aloft by their comrades, it was still a sobering sight.
I am well aware of the 'nation making' nature of Gallipoli and the casualties inflicted on the Kiwi troops (Lt Col Chris Pugsley's book 'Gallipoli' is a particular good account of the New Zealand involvment - Pugsley, by the way, is a lecturer at RMA Sandhurst). I have also, on two occasions, been invited by MFAT to lay wreaths on ANZAC day at obscure Commonwealth Cemetaries. But whether the casualty rate is 1/100, 10/100 or 20/100, there should be no moral relativism to death on the battlefield. However, if you were to read most Australian tomes on the Dardanelles campaign, UK and French casualties hardly rate a mention.
Again, this morning, I attended a repatriation ceremony in my particular TOA and it was intensly moving. Whether it was one young man or ten carried aloft by their comrades, it was still a sobering sight.
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Cumbrian, Sorry, no moral relativsm was meant. You are correct in all you say. After mention by someone else of the NZ contribution (losses) I was merely interested in the statistics.
Unfortunately your are right. As with the thread running on Bombing Command you read of RAF losses, not British, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, etc, remembering that some of the squadrons involved were not RAF. e.g. Canadian bomber squadrons were attached to RAF Bomber Command groups. Canada, however, wanted its own identifiable presence in Allied air operations overseas, and it did not want its air force to be merely a source of manpower for the Royal Air Force. To this end, 6 (RCAF) Group was formed 1 January 1943 with eight squadrons. At the peak of its strength, 6 Group consisted of 14 squadrons. Its just how history gets written whether we like it or not.
if you were to read most Australian tomes on the Dardanelles campaign, UK and French casualties hardly rate a mention
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However, if you were to read most Australian tomes on the Dardanelles campaign, UK and French casualties hardly rate a mention.
The Australians and New Zealanders landed at a separate site, cut off from the British and French, some 20 miles north of the British/French sector at Cape Helles.
There were exceptions. For instance, the Royal Naval Division was originally at ANZAC, but they were withdrawn to join the British at Helles, and the action that caught the attention of Ashmead Bartlett, the British correspondent who wrote so glowingly of the Australians’ spirit in the attack, was when a battalion of Australians was shipped down to Helles quite early in the campaign to take part in a suicidal daylight attack over open, uphill ground in board daylight. (I’ve walked over that ground and it’s hard to believe any general could have been so stupid as to ask men to attack over it in a daylight attack.)
The Australians were the third wave, and they got up and walked forward into withering machine gun fire after watching the first two waves quite literally cut to pieces. Ashmead Bartlett wrote of seeing men holding entrenching shovels in front of their faces as they marched forward to protect themselves from the machine gun bullets(!) (Chimbu, if you can find an account of that attack to post here for us, it’s almost on a par with the Beersheba charge.)
The British did join the Australians up at ANZAC in the August when they landed a large force immediately to the north of ANZAC, but that did little to endear them (or at least their leadership) to the ANZACs, for the mishandling of that landing was mind boggling. Virtually unopposed, the British landed and planted themselves on or near the beach while they waited for their artillery to be landed. Meanwhile, the Australian Light Horsemen were carrying out their extraordinarily costly ‘diversionary’ attack at the Nek to draw Turkish forces away from the British landings. (This was the subject of the movie ‘Gallipoli’.) From the Nek, they could see the British brewing up their tea on the undefended beaches below.
At the other end of the ANZAC salient, the Australian infantry were carrying out their diversionary attack, again to keep the Turks away from the British landings. They became known as Lone Pine. Look that name up on Google and see what those attacks entailed.
Few Australians today care to admit it, but a large proportion of the Australian Diggers of WW1 were British born, and virtually all the Australians felt a close affinity to the Motherland, something few Australians today could understand. However, they fast became very dismissive of the British military leadership after witnessing disaster after disaster.
It was a German General who said of the British soldiers that they were ‘lions led by donkeys’, and the Australians came to agree with this assessment when in 1918, after the British front line divisions were shattered by the most concentrated artillery bombardment ever assembled to that date. The Australians were sent in to plug the gap and save Amiens, and they were instructed to stop any retreating British troops and attach them to the Australian units. (There was one famous instance where an English Colonel took up a rifle and placed himself and his men under the command of an Australian Corporal.) After seeing the British soldiers fight, the Australians had nothing but good things to say about them.
You’ll have to forgive the jingoism that sometimes surfaces among some Australians around ANZAC Day. Until that day in 1915, Australia was a bit like today’s EU, a collection of widely scattered colonies, each of whom really wasn’t interested in giving up any of their identity to a airy-fairy idea called Federalism. After 25 April 1915, they were able to call themselves ‘Australia’ with some sort of real meaning.
Not mentioned here yet was another factor that April 1915 put to rest, (at least in Australian eyes, if not the British), the ‘bad seed’ argument. Many, both in Australia and in Britain, thought that the Australians, because of their convict heritage, would have to be second class soldiers not suitable for combat. There was talk that they would only be suitable for garrison, labour and other such secondary duties. The landings at Gallipoli put that argument to rest.
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Lest we forget
I think we all agree that history, as is read, is the (hopefully) cogent thoughts of the author, rather than an unbiased account of proceedings. The historiography of Gallipoli is necessarily focussed on the Australasian involvement in the campaign; the losses were huge (over 90% of the 8,000-odd NZ troops at Gallipoli were injured to some degree or killed) but compared with the average Allied casualty rate on the Western Front of 4,000 per week, the Dardanelles was a tragic, yet heroic side-show. At least history celebrates the valour of all those involved - including Johnny Turk - and not elevating mawkish 'victimhood' to the same plane, a trend which the media seem to relish.
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Whilst not being able to do it on ANZAC day, the uncle of my Turkish wife will be taking me, and my dad, to Gallipoli this summer - where we shall pay our respect to all the fallen soldiers, see the sights, get sentimental - and in the evenings talk about war, love and everthing in between over a couple of bottles of Raki.
One can think of worse ways to spend a few days.
Lest we forget ...
One can think of worse ways to spend a few days.
Lest we forget ...
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I was in Brisbane around Remebrance Sunday 2005. There were a couple of squaddies selling poppies on the street by a bus-stop. There were several benches, mostly unoccupied, & these guys had put their gear on one bench, taking up maybe a couple of places. As I was buying poppies for myself & my family a young lady walked past, took one look at them & yelled "those benches are for people waiting for busses to sit on; not for you to set up a stall!"
I wanted to yell back that if it wasn't for these guys' fore-runners there might not have been a bench at all.
Sadly though, my flabber was just too gasted & I just stood there open-mouthed.
I wanted to yell back that if it wasn't for these guys' fore-runners there might not have been a bench at all.
Sadly though, my flabber was just too gasted & I just stood there open-mouthed.
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This ANZAC Day I shall take time out to quietly drink to my son who has just commenced a six month tour of Afganistan and reflect upon how my father must have felt in 1968.
GAGS
E86
GAGS
E86
Ataturk's Tribute
"Heroes who shed their blood and lost their lives! You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours. You, the mothers, who sent their sons from far away countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well."
Mustafa Kemal Atatürk (1881 - 10 November 1938) Turkish army officer and revolutionist statesman, founder and first President of the Republic of Turkey; known most of his life as Mustafa Kemal, he was given the name Atatürk by the Grand National Assembly of Turkey in 1934.
Mustafa Kemal Atatürk (1881 - 10 November 1938) Turkish army officer and revolutionist statesman, founder and first President of the Republic of Turkey; known most of his life as Mustafa Kemal, he was given the name Atatürk by the Grand National Assembly of Turkey in 1934.
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Got an email from a mate yesterday that had two very good lines at its bottom:
Says it all, I think... but the point made in the second line would appear to be lost on many of not most 'out there on the street' today, like the young loidy who lambasted the poppy sellers.
If you can read this – then thank a Primary School Teacher!
If you are reading this in English, thank a soldier!!
If you are reading this in English, thank a soldier!!
Despite some damp comments by a few British posters ( that wouldn't surprise the veterans ) I think it's a tribute to Australians the length many go to pay their respects to our ANZAC fallen. It doesn't go unnoticed by other nations too- the Turkish are full of praise.
On behaviour, it's all personal I suppose, and none the too stuffy and who knows how you will react after travelling so far. I saw an middle aged lady scull a beer on the Burma Railway as a tribute to those who fell. Also, amusingly, a young lady at the Long Tanh memorial burst into tears with local Vietnamese following suite believing the girl's father buried beneath the memorial.
Anyways, this ANZAC Day a tough buildup for me. I'm off to Sandakan to do the walk to Ranau. The route has been meticulously mapped out by Lynette Silver using translated Japanese records and post war burial parties notes.
" Of the 2434 prisoners incarcerated at Sandakan, 1787 were Australian. The remaining 641 were British. The six Australians who escaped were the sole survivors. The rest were annihilated".
Lest We Forget
On behaviour, it's all personal I suppose, and none the too stuffy and who knows how you will react after travelling so far. I saw an middle aged lady scull a beer on the Burma Railway as a tribute to those who fell. Also, amusingly, a young lady at the Long Tanh memorial burst into tears with local Vietnamese following suite believing the girl's father buried beneath the memorial.
Anyways, this ANZAC Day a tough buildup for me. I'm off to Sandakan to do the walk to Ranau. The route has been meticulously mapped out by Lynette Silver using translated Japanese records and post war burial parties notes.
" Of the 2434 prisoners incarcerated at Sandakan, 1787 were Australian. The remaining 641 were British. The six Australians who escaped were the sole survivors. The rest were annihilated".
Lest We Forget
Last edited by Gnadenburg; 21st Apr 2007 at 09:12.
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...and Gnadberg, maybe you should have added. "...the last of the Sandakan prisoners were annihilated in the two weeks AFTER Japan had surrendered.”
The Japanese 13th Army refused to accept that Japan had surrendered until MacArthur authorised a Japanese military aircraft to fly to Kuching towards the end of August with a personal emissary of the Emperor on board with written orders from the Emperor for the 13th Army to surrender. On the 28th of August, some two weeks after VJ day, the Japanese executed all the surviving Allied PoW officers who had survived the Sandakan march.
What’s really sad about that awful, horrific march is that would never have happened but for one Douglas MacArthur. Knowing that a large number of Allied prisoners on Borneo had been concentrated into one camp at Sandakan towards the end of the war, the Australians trained up their parachute battalion for a drop onto the camp to liberate the prisoners. Everything was in place, except the 60 C47s to make the drop, and most of those would have to come from the USAAF.
But any such operation would not have been able to be presented as an American victory, and questions might be asked in the US why something similar hadn’t been done to rescue US prisoners in Japanese captivity, so MacArthur wouldn’t authorise the use of the American C47s for the op. Instead, he put on an op using US Army Rangers in the Philippines to do something similar (if overland), which I believe is the subject of a recently released Hollywood movie.
As I recall, the aborted Australian op was named ‘Operation Kingfisher’, and there is a book out there somewhere that gives details of it, but I can’t recall its name or author.
*****
Rescuing myself from a major case of tread creep and getting back on subject, I always remember taking my son to the Dawn Service at Martin Place when he was about five. A very careworn and grizzled old WW2 vet staggered up to us, much the worse for wear from too much rum and pressed a two dollar coin into my son’s hand, saying (slurring, actually) how good it was to see a young one who’d been willing to get out of bed to be there. Truth be told, my son had been anything but willing to get up that morning to go, but even at that age, I think he understood something of the deep emotions in that old man.
The Japanese 13th Army refused to accept that Japan had surrendered until MacArthur authorised a Japanese military aircraft to fly to Kuching towards the end of August with a personal emissary of the Emperor on board with written orders from the Emperor for the 13th Army to surrender. On the 28th of August, some two weeks after VJ day, the Japanese executed all the surviving Allied PoW officers who had survived the Sandakan march.
What’s really sad about that awful, horrific march is that would never have happened but for one Douglas MacArthur. Knowing that a large number of Allied prisoners on Borneo had been concentrated into one camp at Sandakan towards the end of the war, the Australians trained up their parachute battalion for a drop onto the camp to liberate the prisoners. Everything was in place, except the 60 C47s to make the drop, and most of those would have to come from the USAAF.
But any such operation would not have been able to be presented as an American victory, and questions might be asked in the US why something similar hadn’t been done to rescue US prisoners in Japanese captivity, so MacArthur wouldn’t authorise the use of the American C47s for the op. Instead, he put on an op using US Army Rangers in the Philippines to do something similar (if overland), which I believe is the subject of a recently released Hollywood movie.
As I recall, the aborted Australian op was named ‘Operation Kingfisher’, and there is a book out there somewhere that gives details of it, but I can’t recall its name or author.
*****
Rescuing myself from a major case of tread creep and getting back on subject, I always remember taking my son to the Dawn Service at Martin Place when he was about five. A very careworn and grizzled old WW2 vet staggered up to us, much the worse for wear from too much rum and pressed a two dollar coin into my son’s hand, saying (slurring, actually) how good it was to see a young one who’d been willing to get out of bed to be there. Truth be told, my son had been anything but willing to get up that morning to go, but even at that age, I think he understood something of the deep emotions in that old man.
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ANZAC Day somewhere hot and dusty...
I have just returned from the Dawn Service at the Australian Lines. Very tastefully done - piper, bugler, NZ and Aussie flags flying; anthems played. I reflect on the conflicts that I have been involved in - the Balkans, , Saudi Arabia (Iraq) and now Afghanistan, I recall the observations of the 18th century philosopher Hobbes who observed that life is a bitter struggle for survival. It's true, unless you have won the first prize in the Lottery of Life and born in an English speaking (ie 'white') country, life is an unrelenting grind, or as Orwell put it, 'a boot forever stamping on the human face'. I thought that I would never say it, and at the risk of sounding like a US neo-con, in fighting Islamists, we are defending Christian Civilisation.
Oh, and today's Editorial in the NZ Herald referring to the behaviour of Australasians at Gallipoli (posts passim):
NZ Herald Editorial: Anzac Day cleaned up at last
5:00AM Wednesday April 25, 2007
This morning, appropriate solemnity and reverence will be the hallmarks of dawn services throughout the country. Those who attend understand instinctively that Anzac Day is a time for quiet reflection. It seems odd, therefore, that the New Zealand and Australian Governments have had to appeal for the same standard of behaviour at Gallipoli, the site of the ill-fated campaign that begat the Anzac tradition. Surely, there, more than anywhere, the hardships, heroism and sacrifice of the original Anzacs should be respected.
Such has not always been the case in recent years. Photographs of young backpackers at the Lone Pine cemetery lying on the graves of Australian soldiers or using the headstones as pillows speak volumes of an inappropriateness that has extended to dress and other forms of conduct. Equally woebegone has been the call of some politicians for the Gallipoli commemoration to appeal to the "mainstream" and to reflect "contemporary taste". Translated, that led one year to a proposal, subsequently rejected, for a Johnny Farnham concert.
Thankfully, this absurdity now seems a thing of the past. During the past month, the Governments have been at pains to ensure there will be no disrespectful behaviour, excessive drinking and inappropriate entertainment this year. Instead of Bee Gees videos, period music will be played by Australasian military bands. The anticipated 10,000-plus people in attendance will have to wear a wristband at all times to show they have passed security, liquor will be confiscated and drunks excluded. Visitors will be given a show bag containing a raincoat, Anzac biscuits, educational booklets and a rubbish bag.
To some, this may seem an over-reaction. Those who, even at Gallipoli, could not summon the requisite degree of dignity were always a small minority. But the embarrassment factor far outweighs their number. Indeed, there appears to be an increasing awareness across the Tasman that the antics of young Australians worldwide are becoming problematic. At the same time the governmental edict for Gallipoli was being announced, a Sydney Morning Herald backpacker's blog went so far as to claim that loud, arrogant and obnoxious Australians were the "new Yanks" of the tourist trail. Some Londoners have apparently taken to referring to them as Jafas. The website was deluged with messages of affirmation.
It is overstating the case to say Gallipoli was in danger of becoming some sort of drunken Disneyland. Quite simply, most of those who attend, having travelled large distances, find it too profound an experience to wish to behave in that manner. They do not go there to be entertained. They want to be enlightened and emotionally enriched. Large-screen documentaries screening as a prelude to the dawn service, explaining what happened at Gallipoli and why it is significant to New Zealand, Australia and Turkey will, hopefully, enhance their experience.
Finally, the right tone seems to be being established at Gallipoli. It has taken rather too long and too many people have been too eager to cater to the barely existent notion of an entertainment-style Gallipoli experience. The young people who have swelled the ranks at dawn services throughout the country in the past few years, and will do so again today, demand no such concession. Why something that never would have been tolerated at Greymouth or Geelong should have been contemplated for Gallipoli seems beyond comprehension.
Oh, and today's Editorial in the NZ Herald referring to the behaviour of Australasians at Gallipoli (posts passim):
NZ Herald Editorial: Anzac Day cleaned up at last
5:00AM Wednesday April 25, 2007
This morning, appropriate solemnity and reverence will be the hallmarks of dawn services throughout the country. Those who attend understand instinctively that Anzac Day is a time for quiet reflection. It seems odd, therefore, that the New Zealand and Australian Governments have had to appeal for the same standard of behaviour at Gallipoli, the site of the ill-fated campaign that begat the Anzac tradition. Surely, there, more than anywhere, the hardships, heroism and sacrifice of the original Anzacs should be respected.
Such has not always been the case in recent years. Photographs of young backpackers at the Lone Pine cemetery lying on the graves of Australian soldiers or using the headstones as pillows speak volumes of an inappropriateness that has extended to dress and other forms of conduct. Equally woebegone has been the call of some politicians for the Gallipoli commemoration to appeal to the "mainstream" and to reflect "contemporary taste". Translated, that led one year to a proposal, subsequently rejected, for a Johnny Farnham concert.
Thankfully, this absurdity now seems a thing of the past. During the past month, the Governments have been at pains to ensure there will be no disrespectful behaviour, excessive drinking and inappropriate entertainment this year. Instead of Bee Gees videos, period music will be played by Australasian military bands. The anticipated 10,000-plus people in attendance will have to wear a wristband at all times to show they have passed security, liquor will be confiscated and drunks excluded. Visitors will be given a show bag containing a raincoat, Anzac biscuits, educational booklets and a rubbish bag.
To some, this may seem an over-reaction. Those who, even at Gallipoli, could not summon the requisite degree of dignity were always a small minority. But the embarrassment factor far outweighs their number. Indeed, there appears to be an increasing awareness across the Tasman that the antics of young Australians worldwide are becoming problematic. At the same time the governmental edict for Gallipoli was being announced, a Sydney Morning Herald backpacker's blog went so far as to claim that loud, arrogant and obnoxious Australians were the "new Yanks" of the tourist trail. Some Londoners have apparently taken to referring to them as Jafas. The website was deluged with messages of affirmation.
It is overstating the case to say Gallipoli was in danger of becoming some sort of drunken Disneyland. Quite simply, most of those who attend, having travelled large distances, find it too profound an experience to wish to behave in that manner. They do not go there to be entertained. They want to be enlightened and emotionally enriched. Large-screen documentaries screening as a prelude to the dawn service, explaining what happened at Gallipoli and why it is significant to New Zealand, Australia and Turkey will, hopefully, enhance their experience.
Finally, the right tone seems to be being established at Gallipoli. It has taken rather too long and too many people have been too eager to cater to the barely existent notion of an entertainment-style Gallipoli experience. The young people who have swelled the ranks at dawn services throughout the country in the past few years, and will do so again today, demand no such concession. Why something that never would have been tolerated at Greymouth or Geelong should have been contemplated for Gallipoli seems beyond comprehension.
Last edited by Cumbrian Fell; 25th Apr 2007 at 05:07. Reason: spelling and format
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A thread from another forum that I felt shows the dedication of the veterans on ANZAC Day.
http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic...3785&highlight=
Lest we Forget
http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic...3785&highlight=
Lest we Forget
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ANZAC Day
I shall be raising a glass to my great-grandfather this evening, he was one of the fortunate ones, I salute you brave men.
On behalf of: No 483 Sgt R. Whiteing - 6th Australian Light Horse Regiment.
On behalf of: No 483 Sgt R. Whiteing - 6th Australian Light Horse Regiment.
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Sadly, the Kiwi editorial is pretty close to the bone, if only for a few - but a very noticeable few.
And while we´re ``lest we forgetting`` and damning everyone but us WASPs, it may be worth noting that the admirable words on the ANZAC and Wellington memorials were written by a Muslim, (admittedly a secular one), and that there are an awful lot of Muslims out there today who are as horrified by what the crazies are getting up to in the name of their religion as we WASPs are.
It may also be worth visiting how Mustapha Kamal came to write that (IMHO pretty damn fine) speech now inscribed on those memorials: in 1934, a group of Australian (and New Zealand? - not sure of that) mothers whose sons had been killed at ANZAC made one of the first visits by private citizens from Oz and NZ to the Gallipoli battlefields and Ataturk was told he ought to acknowledge them by at least turning up and welcoming them.
In his car on the way, one of his aides suggested that he might be expected to say a few words, so Ataturk literally scribbled those few lines on the back of an envelope. There was no time for the political and protocol professionals to get at it and sanitise it, so what we got were his own words with no professional filter.
I hate to think of the colourless pap the final product would have become had his handlers had a few days to play with it.
And while we´re ``lest we forgetting`` and damning everyone but us WASPs, it may be worth noting that the admirable words on the ANZAC and Wellington memorials were written by a Muslim, (admittedly a secular one), and that there are an awful lot of Muslims out there today who are as horrified by what the crazies are getting up to in the name of their religion as we WASPs are.
It may also be worth visiting how Mustapha Kamal came to write that (IMHO pretty damn fine) speech now inscribed on those memorials: in 1934, a group of Australian (and New Zealand? - not sure of that) mothers whose sons had been killed at ANZAC made one of the first visits by private citizens from Oz and NZ to the Gallipoli battlefields and Ataturk was told he ought to acknowledge them by at least turning up and welcoming them.
In his car on the way, one of his aides suggested that he might be expected to say a few words, so Ataturk literally scribbled those few lines on the back of an envelope. There was no time for the political and protocol professionals to get at it and sanitise it, so what we got were his own words with no professional filter.
I hate to think of the colourless pap the final product would have become had his handlers had a few days to play with it.