RAF Helicopter Navigators (WSOps) - What Do They Actually Do?
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RAF Helicopter Navigators (WSOps) - What Do They Actually Do?
This is a genuine request.
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Can someone please tell me what they actually offer to the cockpit, after all that training, that a second pilot does not? I cannot think of a single thing in their favour. Furthermore, where are they on the Navigator 'food chain' list when the jobs are being given out after Nav training?
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Please .. someone help me, or confirm my thoughts and fears!
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Can someone please tell me what they actually offer to the cockpit, after all that training, that a second pilot does not? I cannot think of a single thing in their favour. Furthermore, where are they on the Navigator 'food chain' list when the jobs are being given out after Nav training?
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Please .. someone help me, or confirm my thoughts and fears!
Last edited by GasFitter; 5th Apr 2007 at 19:47.
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I thought all our rotary fleets had moved to two-pilot ops, and the only remaining navs were seeing out their time?
... which would bear out your point that they don't offer anything a second pilot doesn't, I suppose.
... which would bear out your point that they don't offer anything a second pilot doesn't, I suppose.
Avoid imitations
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Jenks and Nige M*****y? They still walking? Send my regards, ex-240, sorry 27(R) Sqn from early 90's.
I quite enjoyed having a map stand in the LHS.
I quite enjoyed having a map stand in the LHS.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Have all their careers come to an end?
seeing out their time?
Why were they recruited in the first place?
Twas jobs for the boys when they had nowhere else to go.
Cheap and available when pilots were scarce and expensive
however
Prefered 2 crew ops and an empty left hand seat myself.
Got it? Does that cover what you need to know?
Pontius
Wessex pilots only turned right anyway. Their ancient crewmen couldn't get across the cabin quick enough for a looksee left.
CG
Starship Crewman (Retd)
Wessex pilots only turned right anyway. Their ancient crewmen couldn't get across the cabin quick enough for a looksee left.
CG
Starship Crewman (Retd)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I didn't think a Wessex had the capacity to carry a navigator AND the rations.
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Oi! I'll have you know that I fell out of a Wessex once in my haste to get from the bubble Window to the door....slightly missed the hand-hold, All my instructor saw was me get up and do a 'superman' out of the door!
The 'Monkey Harness' really works
On the subject of rations I held the Shawbury record of most different fillings in a Sandwich at 15 Unfortunately the Station Commander of Aldegrove walked in as I was breaking up the KitKat on top of the Tuna and Primula Cheese spread...
The 'Monkey Harness' really works
On the subject of rations I held the Shawbury record of most different fillings in a Sandwich at 15
Unfortunately the Station Commander of Aldegrove walked in as I was breaking up the KitKat on top of the Tuna and Primula Cheese spread...
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Gasfitter
Gasfitter
From a couple of your posts, it seems you have some fascination about navigators and implications they offer, or in more modern times, they offered nothing! Obviously, you are either a single seat pilot or a failed nav. Own up!
From a couple of your posts, it seems you have some fascination about navigators and implications they offer, or in more modern times, they offered nothing! Obviously, you are either a single seat pilot or a failed nav. Own up!
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Given Des Browne's recent statement about 6 more Merlin and 8 more Chinooks I'd wager we'll see a return to single pilot+nav operations in some helicopters for some tasks before too long. I think the aircraft can be brought into Service more rapidly than extra pilots can be trained. Might need to think again about crewman numbers too. Just an observation
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Navibrator
Neither, me old. As mentioned, it was a genuine question. I see some Heli-Navs hitting at SO1 level and therefore their careers are saved in the GD Branch, whereas I see young Heli-Navs and I wonder what their future is ..... Flt Ops? I see a role for other Navs (WSOps), but I struggle with this one. If it were the troops, the trade would be shut and they would be made to wither on the vine.
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I suppose I thought I was missing atrick, but it seems not to be the case. My fears appear to have been well-founded. I haven't seen any convincing argument for their role yet.
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I suppose I thought I was missing atrick, but it seems not to be the case. My fears appear to have been well-founded. I haven't seen any convincing argument for their role yet.
Gas,
A fair series of observations. I'd argue that, if anything, SH Navs (& Crewmen) have done rather better than pilots on recent promotion boards to SO2 - certainly in terms of a percentage. Now whether this is a sympathy thing (ie, little chance of PA for Navs/Crewmen as Flt Lts, so promote them or they're forced out...) or we're in the middle of a "golden age" of special aircrew or, just maybe, they don't have to work as hard at their primary duty as pilots and have more time for career guff ( now running, ducking, covering...!) I don't know. I'd say a mixture of all three. Suffice to say that about 80%, I'd guess, of commissioned SH aircrew are pilots - yet at a secret Hampshire airbase out of 8 available flt cdr slots some 4 are non-pilot (and one of the remaining 4 is an ex-Nav!). Some get disillousioned at the "glass ceiling" against Navs in the higher echelons of the RAF and bang out, others hang in as they haven't got a traditionally transferrable skill to the outside world. Instead they either have to pay a stack of cash for an ATPL (and some have, doing very well at it) or enter the Defence Industry (which seems to be chokka with ex GR1 SO2/SO1 navs!). I'm not sure if we're training any more, but I learnt an awful lot from flying with experienced Navs when I was an LCR mate, gaining valuable captaincy experience, yet having an old head to keep an eye on me!
A fair series of observations. I'd argue that, if anything, SH Navs (& Crewmen) have done rather better than pilots on recent promotion boards to SO2 - certainly in terms of a percentage. Now whether this is a sympathy thing (ie, little chance of PA for Navs/Crewmen as Flt Lts, so promote them or they're forced out...) or we're in the middle of a "golden age" of special aircrew or, just maybe, they don't have to work as hard at their primary duty as pilots and have more time for career guff ( now running, ducking, covering...!) I don't know. I'd say a mixture of all three. Suffice to say that about 80%, I'd guess, of commissioned SH aircrew are pilots - yet at a secret Hampshire airbase out of 8 available flt cdr slots some 4 are non-pilot (and one of the remaining 4 is an ex-Nav!). Some get disillousioned at the "glass ceiling" against Navs in the higher echelons of the RAF and bang out, others hang in as they haven't got a traditionally transferrable skill to the outside world. Instead they either have to pay a stack of cash for an ATPL (and some have, doing very well at it) or enter the Defence Industry (which seems to be chokka with ex GR1 SO2/SO1 navs!). I'm not sure if we're training any more, but I learnt an awful lot from flying with experienced Navs when I was an LCR mate, gaining valuable captaincy experience, yet having an old head to keep an eye on me!
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Dark Blue
So, what do the dark blue navs actually do?? I recently passed AIB for aircrew, have been told that there is a high chance of being offered obs. I guess this is the time I need to know what they do! 
reading your posts about Crab Air, is theie a full career awaiting new RN obs??
reading your posts about Crab Air, is theie a full career awaiting new RN obs??
Gasfitter